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Hot Henry Barber

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 Frank Cannings 31 Jan 2004
This coming May will be the 30th Anniversary of the first ascent of "Deja Vu" in the Great Zawn, Bosigran, West Cornwall by American "Hot" Henry Barber and myself.

I have not seen Henry since that week 30 years ago but I hope to do so this year at the Llanberis Film Festival. If anyone reading this is in touch with Henry please pass this message on to him.

To quote the historical section of CC Guide "West Cornwall": "Great Zawn was the scene of a stylish and historic piece of climbing with the ascent of the smooth "vertical" slab flanking "Dream" by American ace Henry Barber, seconded by Frank Cannings. "Deja Vu" was the result. The line had been spotted by Cannings, who felt it was not for him as a lead. "Here was a line that I'd seen and couldn't do. And here I had the chance to throw one of the world's top rock climbers at it." The pair first went to view the line from the sea; literally - by swimming round into the mouth of Great Zawn to discuss the possibilities. The route was climbed the following day, but only after Barber jibbed and gibbered at making the infamous leap across The Crevasse for a good half hour. Once across , the remarkable "Hots" resumed civilised activity and made a fine and faultless on-sight lead of the extremely bold and sparsely protected "Deja Vu".

The route is so named because when Henry and I were sat down amongst the grass and beautiful wild flowers at the top of the climb we both had a strong feeling that we had been here and done this before.

I'd like to gather together some recollections of ascents of the climb over that 30 year period. I'd also like to hear from a team that could do an anniversery ascent and from anyone who would like to film that ascent.
 Al Evans 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Frank Cannings: Frank, I think, though I might be wrong, that Pete Livesy and I did the second ascent, Pat Littlejohn may have beaten us to it but I dont know why I think that now? We can talk about it if you call, sent you the number on an e-mail.
Al
 Al Evans 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Al Evans: By the way, we roped up for the jump across the crevasse because Pete didnt fancy it solo, when it came to my turn, as I plucked up the courage, Pete just pulled me off the rock and I flew across the gap, there was no way he was going to let me back out Incidently, theres a picture taken of me on it, by Brian Cropper, posted somewhere on the web, it may be on this site. I'll try and locate it for you.
Al
 Al Evans 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Al Evans: cant find it, but you can get it direct from brian.photoshoot@cwctv.net
 Andy2 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Frank Cannings: Hi Frank,

I've done this route a couple of times, most recently last summer with my American friend, Ron.

Ron lives just outside Yosemite NP, and is a pretty good slab climber. I asked him for an American grade for Deja Vu, and he gave it 5.10c. It's interesting to look at one of the grade conversion tables and convert this to English grades - it comes out at about E2!

Personally, I think E4 is a bit high - but English climbers are not very good at granite slabs compared to Californians. Did Hot Henry give an American grade for Deja Vu?

BTW, my friend Ron was 64 years old when he led it. Sickening.

Regards
Andy March
 Al Evans 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Andy2: Andy, Deja Vu is not E2, I'd have thought E4 is about right, when I did it I was climbing quite well and leading that sort of grade in retrospect,I was impressed by Pete's lead, unless new pro makes a difference, and I suppose sticky boots, then I cant imagine its as easy as Cenotaph Corner or Suicide Wall, or even Bow Wall which I led again last year ??????????
 Al Evans 01 Feb 2004
In reply to john arran: Thanks John, how did you do that?
Ian Hill 01 Feb 2004
In reply to john arran: that's a classic B&W pic from that time...all high contrast, lots of black and rock architecture...

all this discussion of it's US 'slab' grade...I never considered it a slab and compared to things like Dream it's most definitely E4...
 Andy2 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Al Evans: I'm just reporting what grade it appeared to be from an American perspective. I certainly wouldn't give Deja Vu E2 !

However, I have (seconded) Ron up some classic Yosemite slabs - Greasy But Groovy, Freewheelin' - and from that experience, I might agree that Deja Vu is reasonably graded at 5.10c.

So I guess
a) the fault lies in the grade conversin tables or
b) if you do something a lot (thin granite slabs in this case), then you find it easy.

Or perhaps it gets easier as you get older?
 john arran 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to john arran) Thanks John, how did you do that?

just being helpful, al

typed - "deja vu" cornwall climbing - into google and it came up in top spot clear as a daisy
 tobyfk 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Ian Hill:
> (In reply to john arran) that's a classic B&W pic from that time...all high contrast, lots of black and rock architecture...

And surely tilted a few degrees!
 Michael Ryan 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Andy2:
> I might agree that Deja Vu is reasonably graded at 5.10c.


Standard 10c............E1/2

or

10c R............E2/3

or

10c R/X............E3/E4

or


10c X..........E4/E5

????
duncan critchley 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Andy2:

5.10c sounds about right for Deja Vu, it's similar climbing to something like Stoner's Highway on Middle Cathedral. Space Babble on the same crag gets 5.11a but would be a solid E5 in Cornwall. Running it out above 30 year old 1/4" bolts would be good practice for bold trad. climbing in the UK! I'd love to think I could climb E4 when I'm 64.

Yosemite grades are on the tough side but I'd guess the divergence from the suggested grade is down to the pro as Mick says: if Deja Vu had solid gear every 5' it might get E2.
 Andy2 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA: I'm not very familiar with the US grading system of PG - R -X and so on.

But I imagine Deja Vu would get "R" nowadays - it's got some gear, so you're not going to die, or even hurt yourself, but you might fall some distance.

So looking at your list, it would get 5.10c R => E2/3, which seemsa bit out of line from the current UK grade of E4 (maybe E3).

From which we conclude:
It's a funny old world
Travel broadens the mind.

 john arran 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:

my experience of us grades in a number of areas is that non-scary 5.9 or 5.10a equates to about e1, and 5.10c would definitely be at least e2. lack of pro could easily add more e points but as i haven't done deja vu i couldn't say how many
darkinbad 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Andy2:

Yeah, that's half of it. Yosemite granite, climbing style and what you're used to accounts for the rest. For relatively well-protected climbs:

steepish, positive 5.10c (e.g. Wheat Thin) - E2 5c
slabby, unpositive 5.10c (e.g. East Buttress of MC) - more like E3 5c
offwidth 5.9 (e.g. N Face of the Rostrum) - impossible
 Al Evans 01 Feb 2004
In reply to john arran: John. its not easy, even allowing for retrospective memory I think its worth E4!
 Sean Kelly 01 Feb 2004
In reply to Frank Cannings: The best story I heard about 'Hot' Henry Barber was at one of Al Harris's parties in the early 70's, when my mate Norman decided to introduce Henry to all the local 'hot shots' 'and so Henry this is ...blar blar etc.' until finally Henry said to Norman..'and who the f*ck are you!'
 Al Evans 02 Feb 2004
In reply to Sean Kelly: I empathise with your mate Norman!
 Al Evans 02 Feb 2004
In reply to john arran: John, if yerve not done it its a must! A classic!
 Al Evans 02 Feb 2004
In reply to Frank Cannings: Why is Frank not answering his thread?
 Al Evans 02 Feb 2004
In reply to tobyfk:
> (In reply to Ian Hill)
> [...]
>
> And surely tilted a few degrees!

I dont think it is actually!
 tobyfk 02 Feb 2004
In reply to Al Evans:

I haven't done Deja Vu (just added it to my must-do list!) but I have done the first pitch of Dream twice. The slab on Dream above the crux overhang, but below the traverse at the break to the arete to belay, is just behind the climber in the picture and is shown as vertical. But I am 99% sure you can stand hands-off there. Therefore, looks tilted. But a great photo (feel I've seen it somewhere else, was it in a mag or guidebook at some point?).
johncoxmysteriously1 02 Feb 2004
In reply to tobyfk:

I've seen it before in a link posted on this site - maybe you saw it there?

Definitely makes the thing look steeper than it is IMHO.
 Mick Dewsbury 02 Feb 2004
In reply to Al Evans:
Went to do it with James in 1977 - I led the first pitch but we both psyched out at the start of the 'slab'. Absolutely awesome. I never went back and did it, do you know if James ever did.
(I still love to just sit at the top of the zawn and look across at it!)
 Michael Ryan 02 Feb 2004
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to tobyfk)
> [...]
>
> I dont think it is actually!

Tahe your rose-tinted glasses off Al.

 Michael Ryan 02 Feb 2004
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:

sorry....rose-tilted.
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to Frank Cannings) Why is Frank not answering his thread?

Hello Al, Andy and all
Sorry Al, I'm not lucky enough to have retired yet so was busy with work. I'm not sure that I'm really qualified to discuss the modern grading of Deja Vu, it's certainly more than HVS. I was once told by a leading climbing photographer, or even two of them, that a good rock climbing photo should portray the feeling of the climb so it doesn't really matter if it is tilted. It doesn't feel like a "slab" - at what angle does a piece of rock cease to be a slab - 89 degrees?
Anyhow, despite the good responses - no contact with Hot H, no offers of stardom and no budding camera genius has emerged.
the other andy 03 Feb 2004
In reply to Frank Cannings:
Henry lives near North Conway NH, there is a website neclimbs.com that is popular with locals. Try putting your question on that site, you may have better luck.
I do have his address and phone #, you can E me if you want them.

 Al Evans 03 Feb 2004
In reply to Frank Cannings: but thats definitely it Frank, the real angle doesnt matter, what matters is what it feels like, get in touch you old bastard
Anonymous 03 Feb 2004
In reply to Al Evans: The same man has been renamed by his work mates POT Henry, and its not dope its the stomach area.

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