UKC

Planning on visiting raven tor and was wondering what the "rules" were for the start of Indecent Exposure (with tree) (7b+) and Body Machine (with tree) (7c) if the starts were damp. It suggests preclipping the first two bolts and pulling up, but what is the starting point? I'd like to try them from the ground ideally, but if it's a bit damp I don't want to be cheating myself and claiming I've done something I haven't. Also I've never been before so was wondering how busy it is likely to be there on a weekend and how busy it is mid week? 

The description to indecent states stick clip bolt 2 I doing the original 7b+ version(to bypass the start as when we used to climb up the tree ). From memory it's pretty obvious where to pull upto on Body Machine if the start is wet

In reply to Dan Arkle:

What if I have a time machine... 

In 2007 ish before the tree got cut down I (5.7') could easily reached the obvious break above the overlap but if the rock was dry would try to pull on at undercuts in the overlap. I suspect pulling on when you can at the first good undercuts with your feet on the slimy slab is the way most people did it. The tree was of course still growing so you'd have to draw the line somewhere.

Raven tor can be pretty horrible this time of year at the weekend. Loads of new students checking it out for the first time. Get there earlier or late or during the week is best.

Thanks that pretty much sums up everything I wanted to know. I've DMed you too 

when it was first climbed , the start was about 3 feet from the break at some pockets , with some tricky moves to get to the break . so that is indecent exposure I would assume

Body Machine and the Prow started in same place . 

However , the original crux of Sardine is not climbed so much these days , so a move here or there on the previously mentioned routes is irrelevant perhaps

I think you won’t need to worry about the starts to those routes being damp. They were dry when I was there last week. 

Both routes are better when the bottom is wet as it's about as good of an excuse you'll get for skipping them I did body machine from the undercuts with feet on the slab quickly (second session) but in the years since I've never actually been able to do the bottom bit. It's horrible. The bottom of indecent is slightly easier (as I've done it once) but I did indecent second go from the cheats start. And it's great. The bottom not so much. 

When the tree was there you used to bridge up between the rock and the tree as high you could before pulling onto the rock. Now it's gone the starts are are pretty hard - in fact the technical crux on Indecent is now the start. So pulling past coz it's wet would definitely be cheating. Indecent is probably a grade or two easier if you skip the start. It used to be considered 7b or low 7b+ before.

If it's wet do something on the RH side, loads of routes around 7c-ish that are nearly always dry.

Could well be crowded at the weekend so go mid week if you can.