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RCI training exemption

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 jameswark 16 Mar 2023

Hi 

Does anybody have any insight into the expectations for training exemption please? The RCI candidate handbook discusses the minimum requirements for exemption. Would be helpful to know (1) if and by how much these criteria need to be exceeded, and (2) what falls under relevant training.

To qualify for exemption candidates must, at the very least
- meet the minimum experience requirements for attendance at an assessment course and
- demonstrate that they have received relevant training in the management of climbing groups and assistants

1
 Alex Riley 16 Mar 2023
In reply to jameswark:

Minimum experience - mostly this is personal climbing experience. Fairly straightforward, you need the same or more experience than the minimum.

Group style climbing training - this could be in a club setting, scouts, military, qualification from another country, informal with an experienced friend, private training course etc...

That's my interpretation. If you have significant experience it shouldn't be too tricky, if you aren't sure I would go and do the training course. It only takes three days and is pretty reasonably priced compared to other work training courses.

Post edited at 17:13
 Paul at work 16 Mar 2023
In reply to jameswark:

In order to get exemption for your RCI training, you need to show that you meet all of the minimum requirements for assessment, as an absolute minimum:

* You must have led a minimum of 40 graded rock climbs with traditional protection at a variety of venues (of which at least 20 MUST be at Severe grade or above).

* You must be proficient in the use of climbing walls and have a minimum of 30 climbing wall leads graded at F4 or above.

* You must be proficient in outdoor bolt protected sport climbing and have a minimum of 10 sport climb leads graded at F4 or above.

* You must have assisted in the supervision of 20 instructed sessions. These sessions should be at a variety of different venues with 10 being on indoor climbing walls and the other 10 on outdoor crags. A session is a half day or evening. At least five of these sessions must have personal reflective comments recorded on DLOG.

* You must have completed a 16 hour first aid course.

While people do get exemption, it doesn't always help people pass first time, unless you have had appropriate input from someone who knows what an assessor is looking for. 

A number of people do offer RCI refresher training. While this may be seen as a cheaper option if you go down the exemption route to find out the information that you are missing. Before selecting someone ask how many RCI training and assessment courses they have worked on. If the answer is very few or none, avoid them and spend your cash with someone who knows what they are talking about. 

 ExiledScot 16 Mar 2023
In reply to jameswark:

There is value in doing the training, even if on paper you more than exceed all criteria, especially if you envisage moving up the ladder further and potentially become an instructor or provider on courses in the future. It's always good to see how staff run and structure courses, plus the input from other candidates on the course. It's all learning. 

Rewind back to the 90s, I was aiming for MIA registration, spa qualification was optional as I already met the MIA criteria experience wise, but I did the training for SPA and 2 weeks later the assessment. The training was with Phil George who developed everyone according to their level, as well as covering the syllabus. It was a great weekend, I still learnt loads and had fun on the rock, with zero pressure. 

Unless money is really tight, I'd say skipping training is potentially skipping some learning opportunities and you'll go into the assessment with more confidence after the training course. 

Post edited at 19:47
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OP jameswark 16 Mar 2023
In reply to Alex Riley:

Hi Alex, thanks for the response. I guess my question is two-fold:

if you at least meet the minimum personal requirements, would this reasonably ensure exemption on that aspect? (I have no doubts on the personal experience front but it's not clear how far past the minimum requirements one should be).

On the group aspect, what would qualify as relevant training experience? (I have a lot of informal experience leading and instructing groups/individuals and feel very confident about all aspects of the assessment, but I don't have any formalised training experience i.e. qualifications, training from formal organisations, etc.). 

1
OP jameswark 16 Mar 2023
In reply to Paul at work:

Hi Paul

Thanks, I'm aware of the minimum requirements but trying to understand whether and to what degree meeting them ensures exemption.

 Alex Riley 16 Mar 2023
In reply to jameswark:

No one is ensured exemption, it's done on a case by case basis, but if you've got a good amount of experience (say 100+ routes) and have a good understanding of group set ups then it would be reasonable to assume exemption.

I'd get in touch with the Mountain Training office, they are really helpful and the worst they can say is no. 

Post edited at 21:44
 Paul at work 16 Mar 2023
In reply to jameswark:

As in my opening paragraph. You just need to show that you meet the minimum requirements for assessment. 

OP jameswark 16 Mar 2023

Thanks all for the responses.

In reply to jameswark:

The exemption route is there so that someone with proven expertise, extensive experience and parallel training - e.g from another country, military or other organisation - can go straight to assessment. 

If you need to ask "what is the minimum to qualify for exemption?" You almost certainly don't qualify!

Just do the training and enjoy the confirmation of your status. 

Post edited at 23:13
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 meggies 17 Mar 2023
In reply to jameswark:

Can you rig two adjacent bottom ropes safely and efficiently and deliver a safe, fun, informative experience for a group of six at the first time ever climbing or resin to rock level?

Can you safely and efficiently rig and manage a group abseil for the same group of six afterwards?

The personal climbing day should be a formality.

The soft skills are what take time to acquire - and there really is no substitute for experience. As mentioned by others watching experienced instructors work is invaluable CPD.

 ExiledScot 17 Mar 2023
In reply to meggies:

> The soft skills are what take time to acquire - and there really is no substitute for experience. As mentioned by others watching experienced instructors work is invaluable CPD.

Indeed.

Taking two people up a multipitch route is a fun easy day, the grade is in comfort zone, you know the route to the millimetre, you spend time on your own planning and observing. 

Take a group to a single pitch crag, you're busy all the time, little tasks for the group(which need checking), warm up, rigging, briefing, fast balls X needs the loo, Y left something in van and doesn't know the way... and that's before anyone has even tied in... even leaving the crag with everything you arrived with and litter free can be challenging. Sometimes that chat on a 5 or 10min drive or walk in can make all the difference to how the day flows. 

Many folk have these skills to a tee, despite no formal courses, scouting, DoE, summer job at PGL , usa summer camps, military equiv. courses etc... I think if you have this experience already you'll know it and decide to do the training anyway, it's a given you'll see someone doing an activity or explain something a certain way and you'll think I'll steal that!! 

1
 Jamie Wakeham 17 Mar 2023
In reply to jameswark:

As others have said, unless you really can't afford the cost (or the time), just do the training.  When I did my SPA training I was a classroom teacher with all the management skills that required, I'd been teaching novices in my club for a decade, and I had around 100 times as much climbing experience as was technically required.  I learned loads.

 Offwidth 17 Mar 2023
In reply to ExiledScot:

>Taking two people up a multipitch route is a fun easy day, the grade is in comfort zone, you know the route to the millimetre, you spend time on your own planning and observing. 

Until something goes wrong.. all it takes is an unexpected downpour or badly pulled muscle. With poor leadership just traffic can do it....ask Ogwen MR about helping people who are nearly hypothermic because their leader decided to queue with similar groups on the descents from Milestone Buttress or Idwall Slabs or got stuck in a queue for The Knights Move. I'd agree leaders taking inexperienced climbers on a multi-pitch adventure should stick to routes they know well,  can solo in less than ideal conditions and with multiple escape options for almost any circumstances.

3
In reply to Offwidth:

I think you're missing their point somewhat. Taking two novices up a multipitch safely really just comes down to your personal climbing skills, as long as, as you say, you're well within your comfort zone. Managing a much larger group of possibly not very engaged kids at a crag takes a completely different skillset which you won't learn through personal climbing.

 ExiledScot 17 Mar 2023
In reply to Offwidth:

You've gone off topic a little, I don't know any mountain instructor who'd climb up into a queue, you'd switch to a different line, traverse, use a scramble etc.. long before you're stood in it. 99% won't even start that route if another team is already on it. If you've all slept in and hit heather terrace at 11am and all classic routes are taken, there are still lines like arete climb which offer good sport at a similar grade. That's why higher level courses have prerequisites, training, consolidation etc.. so you've already likely learned from previous mistakes before you're taking clients out. 

1
 Summit Else 17 Mar 2023
In reply to jameswark:

"demonstrate that they have received relevant training in the management of climbing groups and assistants"

"I have a lot of informal experience "

I can't see how you expect to demonstrate that you've received relevant training?  Experience ≠ Training  and it clearly says you must have received training.

 Offwidth 17 Mar 2023
In reply to ExiledScot:

It's a forum and we are allowed to go off topic. I care about the subject as it leads to unnecessary call outs and I've been impacted by such incidents tying to help. These popular multipitch routes have extra risks that are too often underestimated by too many. I agree a big majority of instructors avoid such situations but its funny how a few don't  (again ask Ogwen MR). Qualifications certainly don't measure if candidates know 'every inch' of every route they may use with clients.

The funniest example I heard in queues was when someone on a popular winter route told their belayer about a group behind "if that climber comes up to you tw@ him with your axe"...turned out to be a guide friend of his. In Europe guides regularly clamber all over other groups.

To answer pancake the evidence is climbers are not learning...on Milestone and Idwall an easy scrable escape up is well known as is a scramble traverse left off from the ledge below The Knights Move, or various bypasses left lower down. I fully get the different skills bit but multi-pitch skills are more complex for other reasons.

Post edited at 13:41
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