This post is prompted by a recent photo on which I put a comment basically implying that they were off route. I then looked at the UKC route description and thought "that doesn't seem right", but it does help explain where the climber is (unfortunately you can't edit photo comments so my apologies to the climber in the photo).
The first guide Diamond Wednesday (HVS 5a) was in was the 1981 Staffordshire Area - the one that (pre-fading) was a sort of fawn colour. I've no longer got a copy of that but it was graded MVS 4b (IIRC). Felt a bit stiff at that grade.
1989 Staffordshire Guide has it at HVS 5a (felt easy for the grade - compare with Saul's Crack and The Sloth - but not obviously overgraded), route description is "Follow Hollybush Crack until above the the holly. Continue up the thin crack on the left to a small triangular roof. A difficult move round this then leads to easier climbing up the buttress to reach the top". Description seems spot on as far as I can see.
UKC route description is "Start up Hollybush Crack until above the prickly beast then climb the arete on the left passing a tricky overhang to gain the final exposed rib". Same as my 2003 Western Grit Rockfax. To me, this is a poor/misleading description, maybe you use the arete before the roof, but the line goes up the obvious crack & groove. And where exactly on the upper bit is "the final exposed rib" - there's no rib worthy of the name up there.
I haven't got the latest definitive guide - can anyone give me the route description in that?
The line taken in that photo may be fine climbing, but I don't think it's the line of this route - any thoughts?
HVS 5a A good, well protected, if slightly artificial, climb. From the holly, follow the slim groove and crack to a small triangular roof. An awkward move round this leads to slabby breaks above. 2009 BMC guide
MVS 4b Follow Hollybush Crack but continue up the thin crack on the left to a small triangular roof. Go over this. Climb the wall above. BMC 1981
> maybe you use the arete before the roof, but the line goes up the obvious crack & groove. And where exactly on the upper bit is "the final exposed rib" - there's no rib worthy of the name up there.
Pass the bush, and up the crack/groove. A step left at the little roof, then step back right again, to be perched on the rather-small "rib", then straight up.
As you say, a worthwhile climb.
Edit to add: The "rib" can be seen in this photo. The climber should step right and up from where they are, with a decent foothold right on the rib.
The current guide has the route in the groove to the right, then over the little roof at the top. The climber is on a different route, though not one in the definitive guide.
> But that "rib" is below the triangular roof, whereas Rockfax says "the final exposed rib".
The "triangular roof" is the T-shaped crack/break a body length below the climber (which you approach from the groove below). The "rib" is just to the climber's right.
The "rib" is not the final bit, there's a final slabby bit (just left of the finish of Pedestal Route), but that's much easier, about Diff.
I think I linked to the wrong thing before, here's the photo:
hi it was my picture I did put a little reply to your comment, but not too sure if you would get a notification or not?
you are indeed correct though I was off route, but in the comment I did say I was getting a rather cheeky off route rest, but then did go back right and rock up to the massive foothold.
Makes more sense with that photo 😁 - it was a long time ago, but (IIRC) I think I used the square cut arete/rib to the right of that climber as a handhold. What I do remember is thinking that since this is obviously a gap-filling eliminate climb in nature, I must make sure I keep between the existing "main" routes and not wander about.
Although it's eliminate in nature, it's still a nice worthwhile route. Must do it again sometime, might have to be on the "blunt" end though.
With the current state of the holly bush it's probably eminently soloable at the moment - definitely not by me.
I think only whoever posts the picture gets comment notifications.
It's a nice route, somehow manages to feel both squeezed in and totally independent at the same time. Was "interesting" in a WTF way when it was graded MVS 4b 😁
indeed even felt "interesting" for an HVS whilst on the route, afterwards after some thought its probably spot on for the grade. maybe it was my lack of trad climbing recently.
