The Covid relaxation roadmap

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 Eric9Points 22 Feb 2021

Looking at various roadmaps for lifting restriction I note that the UK government is saying that no earlier than 12 April, UK staycations will be permitted.

BBC News - What's the timetable for lifting lockdown?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52530518

Presumably then, that means we'll be able to get back out into the hills as well. However who you climb with may be limited to just one other person from outside your household or people you live with. Not quite sure what the situation on climbing walls will be however, if they are regarded as gyms the limitations seem unworkable.

Post edited at 17:14
 afx22 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

If I understand correctly, getting into to hills, or travelling to the crags, will be allowed from 29th March.

edit: for day trips, not overnight stays.

Post edited at 17:15
 jacko552 22 Feb 2021
In reply to afx22:

I suppose it depends on the definition of 'local' - 'Stay home' is changing to 'stay local' from 29th March but I can't see any info on when the 'stay local' will be dropped.

 Eric9Points 22 Feb 2021
In reply to afx22:

> If I understand correctly, getting into to hills, or travelling to the crags, will be allowed from 29th March.

> edit: for day trips, not overnight stays.

Yes, for day trips, but in Scotland we can't travel outside our council boundaries so I haven't been outside of Edinburgh since before Christmas and haven't heard of any date when that will change. That was why the "UK staycation" thing seemed important. It implies that travel restrictions will be lifted at that point.

In reply to Eric9Points:

BBC website says from 8th March

“Recreation in an outdoor public spaces - such as a park - will be allowed between two people, meaning they would be allowed to sit down for a coffee, drink or picnic”

Not sure about travel restrictions from that date but I would think that the above “recreation” would also cover climbing (hopefully) 😃

Post edited at 17:25
 afx22 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Kryank:

Step 2 - 29th March - “Stay at home order ends but people encouraged to stay local wherever they can”

 Ramblin dave 22 Feb 2021
In reply to jacko552:

> I suppose it depends on the definition of 'local' - 'Stay home' is changing to 'stay local' from 29th March but I can't see any info on when the 'stay local' will be dropped.


Pedantry - "stay home unless you have a valid reason in which case stay local" is changing to "stay local". Previously you could drive a short distance (stay local) to exercise (valid reason) but not just to sit in the sun or have a picnic or watch the world go by - now the picnic or whatever will be fine too.

Post edited at 18:07
 Eric9Points 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Ramblin dave:

> Pedantry - "stay home unless you have a valid reason in which case stay local" is changing to "stay local". Previously you could drive a short distance (stay local) to exercise (valid reason) but not just to sit in the sun or have a picnic or watch the world go by - now the picnic or whatever will be fine too.

Quite.

So travelling from Manchester to the Lakes or Edinburgh to Glencoe is out until staycations are allowed.

 afx22 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

There’s still too much ambiguity.  Once again.

 kevin stephens 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

We've yet to find out if the Welsh dates will be synchronised with England.  Hopefully they will.

 OwenM 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

I think the Scottish government are going to give details tomorrow.  Don't think they'll be lifting travel restrictions anytime soon.  

In reply to Eric9Points:

> Yes, for day trips, but in Scotland we can't travel outside our council boundaries so I haven't been outside of Edinburgh since before Christmas and haven't heard of any date when that will change. That was why the "UK staycation" thing seemed important. It implies that travel restrictions will be lifted at that point.

Apparently we shall be going back to a tier system in Scotland, in which case travel may well be restricted to council areas for some time. Really rubbish for people in the cities.

 kaiser 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

Basically it seems like a free for all from early April!

Seems like a rather sick irony that Boris decides to Let it Rip on the exact same day as cases spike up again and the 3rd Wave starts...

 davidalcock 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

So... Obfuscation, ambiguity, and perverse reasoning? Again?

Anyone been bothered to see if the letter of the law is changing? 

 Eric9Points 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Apparently we shall be going back to a tier system in Scotland, in which case travel may well be restricted to council areas for some time. Really rubbish for people in the cities.

That would be shite, yes. Being stuck in Edinburgh is bad enough but it must be worse if you live in a less interesting part of the central belt.

What I noted though from the BBC report was that staycations *in the UK* would be permitted. That implies that all four governments have agreed to lift travel restrictions by that date.

 nastyned 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

Pubs are stuffed

 afx22 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

They did mention a synchronisation across the four nations.

In reply to davidalcock:

Haven't looked on legislation.gov yet but usually the regulations in all their glory seemed to pop up a day or 2 after the announcement.

In reply to Eric9Points:

Once again, I'll bet that local isn't defined in the legislation for England but that Scotland will keep its actually understandable defined travel limits - which appear to be great if you live in Highlands and Islands but crap if you're in a tiny city district.

So Manchester to Lakes - maybe - might depend on if you meet Pc Plod and which side of bed he's got out of because we'll almost certainly be back to the great interpretation debate. I would imagine that it might get difficult if you've gone to a specific destination and passed similar places on the way.

I want to climb up a hill - fine

I want to climb up this hill and I've driven past 7 other hills - hmm.

In reply to Eric9Points:

> What I noted though from the BBC report was that staycations *in the UK* would be permitted. That implies that all four governments have agreed to lift travel restrictions by that date.

Or it is an attempt by Johnson to force Sturgeon's hand against her better(?) judgement (or make her look like a killjoy).

In reply to afx22:

> They did mention a synchronisation across the four nations.

It is hard to see how they can be if Scotland has a tier system and therefore not even synchronised within Scotland.

 AJM 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Michael Hood:

There's already a fairly lengthy summary doc up on the website. The section on 29 travel relaxation says:

> As a result of these changes, people will no longer be legally required to Stay at Home Many of the lockdown restrictions, however, will remain in place. Unless an exemption already applies, it will not be possible to meet people from other households indoors and many business premises will remain shut. Guidance will setout that people should continue to work from home where they can. People should continue to minimise travel wherever possible, and should not be staying away from home overnight at this stage.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-response-spring-2021

If the Stay at Home rule goes, then with it goes the reasonable excuse criteria and all that for leaving home. The current travel restrictions are guidance but it's an offence not to go home when told to; if there's no legal requirement to stay at home any more my guess is that it just becomes guidance. It sounds like limitations on what you can do will start to be based more on restricting what is open - with the exception of indoor gatherings which it sounds like restrictions will remain on.

 jkarran 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Kryank:

> BBC website says from 8th March

> “Recreation in an outdoor public spaces - such as a park - will be allowed between two people, meaning they would be allowed to sit down for a coffee, drink or picnic”

Which is pretty much legalising what people are doing now anyway.

Jk

 Eric9Points 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Or it is an attempt by Johnson to force Sturgeon's hand against her better(?) judgement (or make her look like a killjoy).

She left a four nations meeting early today to go to her daily party political broa..sorry Covid press conference. Maybe the other three just decided without her .

I'm pretty sure that under the current rules, if everything goes as expected then all of Scotland should easily be in tier 1 by April.

 OwenM 22 Feb 2021
In reply to afx22:

> They did mention a synchronisation across the four nations.

HaHaHaHaHa.

 Dave Hewitt 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

> I'm pretty sure that under the current rules, if everything goes as expected then all of Scotland should easily be in tier 1 by April.

You're an optimistic man!

 Eric9Points 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

> You're an optimistic man!

Cases are halving roughly every 16 or 18 days and we're at 163 cases per day per million now. No doubt opening schools etc will slow that but as the proportion of vaccinated working age adults increase I would hope that the greater numbers of immune people should cancel that out then dominate.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?yScale=log&zoomToSelection=true&time=2021-01-18..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

We'll see!

In reply to Eric9Points:

> I'm pretty sure that under the current rules, if everything goes as expected then all of Scotland should easily be in tier 1 by April.

Wouldn't that make us much more relaxed than England? Can't see that happening! I think I'd settle right now for travel freely within my own council area by Easter and elsewhere in Scotland and get to Ratho again by July.

 Dave Hewitt 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

> Cases are halving roughly every 16 or 18 days and we're at 163 cases per day per million now. No doubt opening schools etc will slow that but as the proportion of vaccinated working age adults increase I would hope that the greater numbers of immune people should cancel that out then dominate.

Yep, but whether that leads to quickish relaxation is another matter - there's a lot of politics of various forms in all this. At least hill-related things are mainly outdoors - apart from indoor walls and general going to the pub/cafe afterwards stuff. Indoor activities still look very iffy in terms of timescale - Stirling chess club hasn't met since March last year and although it'd be great to be able to get next season started on time in September, you won't find many people at the club particularly confident that'll happen, at least not without various restrictions that would deter people from attending. It'll be interesting to see what Tuesday's Scottish Government announcement brings.

 Eric9Points 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Wouldn't that make us much more relaxed than England? Can't see that happening! I think I'd settle right now for travel freely within my own council area by Easter and elsewhere in Scotland and get to Ratho again by July.

I'm thinking the tier criteria have never been very objective, at least as they are explained to the public and may be "adjusted" as things progress. As a city dweller with a back garden, no children to look after and no job to travel to I'm still finding the restrictions are starting to get to me. I can't imagine what it must be like for people with families who live in flats. I think if travel restrictions aren't significantly relaxed by Easter people will start ignoring them anyway.

I guess this is the trickiest part of the pandemic, getting the balance right. Once restrictions are relaxed this time it will be difficult to ever impose them again but undue prudence will result in widespread disobedience anyway.

 Fat Bumbly2 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

Beginning to feel very disobedient. We just don’t get noticed. Often linked to pub opening and other activities which have an appreciable risk. Not looking forward to tomorrow. I really struggled with all the knockbacks last year.

Post edited at 22:29
 Dave Hewitt 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

> Beginning to feel very disobedient.

Had my first Munro hankerings for a while today - took a wander up this from Dunblane (very pleasant):
http://www.hill-bagging.co.uk/mountaindetails.php?qu=S&rf=13048
Stuc and Vorlich looked lovely and with the weather meant to be good again in a few days the old Stuc from Braeleny idea felt tempting - nearest big-hill option from Stirling. I'd probably better stay Ochiling/pottering just yet, though. Heard a story a few days ago of a Stirling couple with a child being turned back by the police between Stirling and Callander - that shouldn't be happening, but it is, and it's a disincentive for any westward stuff.

 finneyles 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

A lot of people must be at breaking point and completely agree no matter what is said they will just take matters into their own hands!

In reply to Eric9Points:

It seemed to me that, if the dates stick (much depends on the impact of schools reopening):

8 March - no real change. Some will continue to head out as they are currently. 
 

29 March - game on for day trips. We will be encouraged to minimise travel, which is less stringent than stay local but still vague and meant to be kind of restrictive. Might mean a free for all in practice but limited by the fact that it’s meant to be day trips. I guess head for your local crags. My closest crag is an hour’s drive away... but if the Covid numbers continue going in the right direction, I’d be quite happy going there or indeed anywhere I’d usually go for a day trip. This having not been climbing since the start of December. The Covid situation is already much better and will be better still by Easter, if things go as planned.

12 April - fair game for overnight stays. Still urged to minimise travel so not sure how that squares with overnight stays! Having said that, an overnight trip to t’Peak is less travel than two day trips, if that helps... The campervan will get some use at last. Booked accommodation will be limited and rammed, like last year... Walls open as well for a dose of local Covid ;-)

An important observation - these dates may well slip but presumably the order won’t. Thus it’s encouraging that overnight stays and the walls are in the same category as retail and outdoor pubs. Last summer it took longer - mid June for retail, early July for pubs (don’t really care personally) and late July for overnight stays and walls (overnight stays may have been a bit earlier in July). 

In reply to Ramblin dave:

The roadmap doc says minimise travel rather than stay local from the 29th. I’m sure more details will be provided closer to the time. Certainly once overnight stays are permitted from the 12th (inshallah), stay local won’t make sense any more.  

 Blunderbuss 23 Feb 2021
In reply to Misha:

Hancock has just confirmed as of the 29th March you can effectively travel wherever you want in England as long as it is day trip.....

 Fat Bumbly2 23 Feb 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:I am currently using the full allowance and with confidence. This does get me on to the Lammermuirs, snow permitting. That’s like you going to Callander. Seeing folk and footprints up there, but it is understandably very quiet. Could do with some actual hills with elevation change and crags etc, but it beats endless building sites as Edinburgh swallows up everything as far as Tranent.

The Drum, another handy after work hill. Looking forward to schools opening for a change of scene. See also Dumyat and Meikle Corum etc. 

Post edited at 08:00
 The Norris 23 Feb 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

> Cases are halving roughly every 16 or 18 days and we're at 163 cases per day per million now. No doubt opening schools etc will slow that but as the proportion of vaccinated working age adults increase I would hope that the greater numbers of immune people should cancel that out then dominate.

> We'll see!

Slightly off topic, but your data is out by a factor of 10 I think? Which I'm surprised at, I use that website too. Its averaging around 120 odd cases per 100,000 according to the government and phe websites etc

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

EDIT, ah, yours is daily NEW cases, mine is daily total cases by the looks of it.

Post edited at 08:08
 Dave Hewitt 23 Feb 2021
In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

> The Drum, another handy after work hill.

Funnily enough I parked right outside your work to do it - there are a couple of useful spaces at the start of the little lane leading to the footbridge over the A9. Took pretty much exactly an hour to the top from there, via the cycleway then the track in from the west. Thought about trying to get back via Glenwhilk itself to reach the other road, but the maps varied in their opinion on the presence of tracks, and from observation on the ground it didn't look to be a good idea (lots of pregnant ewes in unfenced fields, quite aside from anything else), so I just reversed the outward route. Nice afternoon wander anyway, while the better half was pottering about in the university woods looking at snowdrops with a pal. It feels like we're just about the only people in Scotland still doing it, but we're trying to stick with the "no more than two people (including couples)" rule that's been in for a while (dunno quite why).

In reply to AJM:

> If the Stay at Home rule goes, then with it goes the reasonable excuse criteria and all that for leaving home. The current travel restrictions are guidance but it's an offence not to go home when told to; if there's no legal requirement to stay at home any more my guess is that it just becomes guidance. It sounds like limitations on what you can do will start to be based more on restricting what is open - with the exception of indoor gatherings which it sounds like restrictions will remain on.

Not looked at that guidance properly yet (*), but they could probably continue the current "tiers" legislation - it's only tier 4 that has the "stay at home" bit. All 4 tiers have various regulations about "gatherings" and "business opening restrictions". So first step might require a bit of tweaking and taking areas (everywhere?) out of tier 4; no doubt a bit more tweaking could accommodate all of Bojo's roadmap.

Don't forget that the schools closure isn't legislative (if I've understood correctly), I believe it's basically minister of education instructing schools to close except for key workers' kids - but that only really applies to state (or state funded) schools. Some non-state schools have definitely been more open than just key workers' kids. So March 8th shouldn't (if I've understood correctly) require any legislation and the current "tiers" legislation needs its expiry date extended beyond 31 March anyway.

(*) - Edit: the only hint about legislative changes that I can see in the guidance is about amendments so that stuff to do with the May local elections can go ahead from March 8th.

Post edited at 10:04
In reply to Kryank:

'93. From 8 March, the Stay at Home restriction will continue but it will be amended so that people can leave home for recreation as well as exercise outdoors -'

Now, you were all making the distinction weren't you?

 Ciro 11:58 Tue
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> '93. From 8 March, the Stay at Home restriction will continue but it will be amended so that people can leave home for recreation as well as exercise outdoors -'

> Now, you were all making the distinction weren't you?

I am. Aren't you?

 Fat Bumbly2 12:59 Tue
In reply to Ciro:

What is it? Enjoying your exercise = recreation?

 Eric9Points 14:43 Tue
In reply to Eric9Points:

Possibly a relaxation of travel restrictions in Scotland from 5th April.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56170916

March is going to be a long month.

 Fat Bumbly2 14:49 Tue
In reply to Eric9Points:

Probably meaning guidance on moving further out into your council area being lifted as tier 3 imprisonment was being toted as an aspiration for the end of April.   However it's not just the slight chance of a fine which is keeping us in, it is cooperation. If there is further delay, cooperation will fade and it will collapse.  

The linking of low risk activities like ours with hazardous indoor openings is very frustrating. 

In reply to Eric9Points:

She has said that the whole of Scotland will be in Level 4 until the end of April, so, if the level rules are the same as before Christmas, that would mean it is illegal to leave your own council area before then, and probably beyond then in level 3. So very, very grim news for city dwellers. Possibly better for those of us lucky enough to be in the big council areas if the "local" guidance is lifted sooner.

 Dave Hewitt 14:56 Tue
In reply to Eric9Points:

> Possibly a relaxation of travel restrictions in Scotland from 5th April.

> March is going to be a long month.

Not really much change until 26 April, which is a long way off as you say. Pretty sure there'll be widespread disobedience in various forms before then, particularly if the weather proves to be good in March and April. The stroppier Scottish police areas, eg Stirling, might be busy.

Japan has just appointed a Minister for Loneliness, to try and reduce rising suicide rates and depression generally. That seems a good and progressive idea. Not a sniff of that in Scotland, by comparison.

 Ciro 16:15 Tue
In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

> What is it? Enjoying your exercise = recreation?

I didn't think it was a difficult concept to figure out.

Going out of the house once a day far a run, walk, bike ride or similar is getting your daily exercise. 

Eventing else is recreation.

In reply to Ciro:

> Going out of the house once a day far a run, walk, bike ride or similar is getting your daily exercise. 

> Everything else is recreation.

Well, that's the government's definition it seems. Usually recreation means doing something you enjoy - "an activity of leisure" (Wikipedia).

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

> Japan has just appointed a Minister for Loneliness, to try and reduce rising suicide rates and depression generally. 

sounds like a fun job

 Naechi 17:22 Tue
In reply to Ciro:

"Physical activity is defined as any bodily movement produced by skeletal muscles that results in energy expenditure. The energy expenditure can be measured in kilocalories. Physical activity in daily life can be categorized into occupational, sports, conditioning, household, or other activities. Exercise is a subset of physical activity that is planned, structured, and repetitive and has as a final or an intermediate objective the improvement or maintenance of physical fitness."

Too many words for public consumption maybe though...

Post edited at 17:23
 C Witter 18:18 Tue
In reply to Eric9Points:

If I understand correctly, the government's roadmap is roughly as follows:

March: kids go back into schools; start to relax measures.

April: mumble about our Great British Vaccine rollout, as infections start increasing.

May: Promise a Great British Summer and discuss the intricacies of international travel at enormous length, whilst infection numbers reach 20,000 per day. Serco pull out of Test and Trace, citing financial agreements. Renewed concerns about effectiveness of vaccine on new strains voiced by virologists.

Late May: Independent Sage - and, indeed, Sage itself - plead with government to lockdown. Johnson blusters about the most vulnerable having been vaccinated. Deaths, nonetheless, rising toward 500. Meanwhile, Labour have seized the moment to campaign on the issue of exams: "This is about our children's futures!" Everyone ignores them.

June: "The science has changed," declares Johnson, doing his best to look remorseful as lockdown number 4 is announced. Infection rates have hit 30,000 and stories run about a number of older people who've apparently died of the variants despite being vaccinated.

...

December 2021: Boris Johnson notes that we have a new version of the vaccine that is effective against all variants. And adds that he's sure we'll be out of lockdown 5 by spring.

Stay safe everyone!

 Eric9Points 18:29 Tue
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Walkhighlands believe we may not be allowed out until mid May.

https://twitter.com/walkhighlands/status/1364226308624977920?s=19

I sincerely hope that's wrong.

I've been willing to support the government in abiding by rules I see as unecessarily restrictive for climbers and hillwalkers for the sake of social cohesion but being confined to Edinburgh for six months would be intolerable.

 Eric9Points 18:29 Tue
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Walkhighlands believe we may not be allowed out until mid May.

https://twitter.com/walkhighlands/status/1364226308624977920?s=19

I sincerely hope that's wrong.

I've been willing to support the government in abiding by rules I see as unecessarily restrictive for climbers and hillwalkers for the sake of social cohesion but being confined to Edinburgh for six months would be intolerable.

 Eric9Points 18:29 Tue
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Walkhighlands believe we may not be allowed out until mid May.

https://twitter.com/walkhighlands/status/1364226308624977920?s=19

I sincerely hope that's wrong.

I've been willing to support the government in abiding by rules I see as unecessarily restrictive for climbers and hillwalkers for the sake of social cohesion but being confined to Edinburgh for six months would be intolerable.

 tehmarks 18:33 Tue
In reply to Eric9Points:

Sorry, I didn't quite catch that?

In reply to Eric9Points:

> Being confined to Edinburgh for six months would be intolerable.

Imagine being in Glagow. At least you have Arthur's Seat.

But yes, I don't think I could tolerate it. Many won't.

 Dave Hewitt 18:37 Tue
In reply to Eric9Points:

> I've been willing to support the government in abiding by rules I see as unecessarily restrictive for climbers and hillwalkers for the sake of social cohesion but being confined to Edinburgh for six months would be intolerable.

Well there's an election in May...

In reply to C Witter:

> December 2021: Boris Johnson notes that we have a new version of the vaccine that is effective against all variants. And adds that he's sure we'll be out of lockdown 5 by spring.

I think you're being a bit optimistic:


 Blunderbuss 18:49 Tue
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Can't believe you Scots have to put up with this nonsense....another 9 weeks with no travel....does Wee Jimmy Crankie think you are going to get a 3rd wave from people having days trips to the great outdoors?!! 

In reply to Blunderbuss:

> Can't believe you Scots have to put up with this nonsense....another 9 weeks with no travel....does Wee Jimmy Crankie think you are going to get a 3rd wave from people having days trips to the great outdoors?!! 

Guess she has to do something distracting whilst she, her husband and salmond sort out their differences publicly. 

 C Witter 19:01 Tue
In reply to FactorXXX:

> I think you're being a bit optimistic:


Hopefully I'm being overly pessimistic... But, there's a reason the teachers are up in arms about schools returning - and it's not only their own safety they're thinking of.

In reply to Blunderbuss:

> Can't believe you Scots have to put up with this nonsense....another 9 weeks with no travel....does Wee Jimmy Crankie think you are going to get a 3rd wave from people having days trips to the great outdoors?!! 

No. She thinks it a good idea to have a tier system. A tier system obviously only works if there are travel restrictions. It is unworkable to allow discretion to travel for some things but not others. Therefore people wanting day trips to the outdoors are the unfortunate victims of a perfectly reasonable approach.

Post edited at 19:06
 Blunderbuss 19:07 Tue
In reply to Robert Durran:

I think the Tier system is nonsense you have my double commiserations... 

In reply to Blunderbuss:

> I think the Tier system is nonsense.

Why? It makes a a lot of sense to me.

 girlymonkey 19:10 Tue
In reply to Blunderbuss:

> I think the Tier system is nonsense you have my double commiserations... 

Well it's either that or the highlands stay totally locked down because of Glasgow's caseload! It is frustrating, but it does sadly make sense

 Blunderbuss 19:16 Tue
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Why? It makes a a lot of sense to me.

It never worked in England IMO, perhaps it did up there.....but if you are going to keep tiers until all this ends then the travel ban could extend beyond April? 

I wouldn't be happy with it for sure...cant wait for the 29th March down here.

 Fat Bumbly2 19:22 Tue
In reply to Ciro:we are not limited to once a day.  Great news for the dogs.

 Fat Bumbly2 19:23 Tue
In reply to Eric9Points:

Walk Highlands would love that. Nice big banner on its front page rubbing our noses in it. I detest that site

 Fat Bumbly2 19:25 Tue
In reply to Dave Hewitt:I was thinking about the election. Expectation management. Expect a rabbit to be pulled out of the hat late April!

 Fat Bumbly2 19:28 Tue
In reply to Blunderbuss:

Tiers did not work in East Lothian. We got a brief spell at 2. I got a winter hill day out of it as well as a sane paddle on Loch Lomond. Pubs went radge getting as much Edinburgh trade as possible. Back in the jail again.

In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

> Tiers did not work in East Lothian. We got a brief spell at 2. I got a winter hill day out of it as well as a sane paddle on Loch Lomond. Pubs went radge getting as much Edinburgh trade as possible. Back in the jail again.

So do you think a tier system should be abandoned because people don't stick to the rules?  If the people in Edinburgh had stayed in Edinburgh you could have continued getting your hill days. Maybe what is needed is more enforcement.

 Fat Bumbly2 20:26 Tue
In reply to Robert 

Just reporting what happened. 

Idiocy of having to wait for the pubs to open before we can legally be on our own on a hill.

 Eric9Points 20:38 Tue
In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

> I was thinking about the election. Expectation management. Expect a rabbit to be pulled out of the hat late April!

Quite.

We are able to hold an election before most of Scotland can access the hills?

It is currently illegal for parties to go door knocking, leafletting or have campaign stalls (although there have been cases of one party leafletting anyway). Campaigning can only be done by phone.

We will ask thousands of election officials and the public to risk their health in voting. 

When we had an outbreak of foot and mouth disease in 2003 we postponed the election for a month.

This election should be postponed until everyone has had their second jab and a sufficient amount of time for campaigning by all parties has been allowed for.

In reply to Blunderbuss:

> Hancock has just confirmed as of the 29th March you can effectively travel wherever you want in England as long as it is day trip.....

Which means a couple hours' radius for most people, unless someone is very keen! The 'no overnight stays' rules is a bit unfair on campervans which are clearly socially distanced but toilet facilities will be thin on the ground until the pubs open anyway so probably just as well...

In reply to FactorXXX:

I'm not convinced the 'UK' flag will look the same in 2035...

In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

> Idiocy of having to wait for the pubs to open before we can legally be on our own on a hill.

It is frustrating but I don't think it is idiocy. We are just collateral damage.

 Ciro 21:39 Tue
In reply to Misha:

> Which means a couple hours' radius for most people, unless someone is very keen! The 'no overnight stays' rules is a bit unfair on campervans which are clearly socially distanced but toilet facilities will be thin on the ground until the pubs open anyway so probably just as well...

It is a bit nonsensical that driving up and down the A1 to Kilnsey every day will be allowed, but parking in a field overnight to cut down the miles and potential for a road accident won't.

But wild camping isn't exactly a large demographic to create exception for, and pretty much any other form of overnight stay will encourage contact of some form or another.

In reply to Ciro:

Agree. Except I'm definitely not keen enough to do Brum to Kilnsey for a day!

Post edited at 21:53
 Fat Bumbly2 22:16 Tue
In reply to Eric9Points:

I have been leafleted by the Nasties, but part of the usual Tuesday Royal Mail litter drop. 


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