The Groove at Cratcliffe

Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.

BTW (as I complete armchair climber, long since retired) I was wondering: has Pearson's incredible 'Groove' at Cratcliffe been repeated much/at all since 2008?

 petegunn 21 Feb 2021
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I think one of the Team America guys did it (Kevin Jorgeson) but did a slightly different top section after doing the groove but not sure anyone else has since?

Post edited at 20:58
 remus 21 Feb 2021
In reply to petegunn:

> I think one of the Team America guys did it (Kevin Jorgeson) but did a slightly different top section after doing the groove.

Kevin J is the only other person I know who's (partially) done it. Like you say he did a different (easier) line to James. Where James goes direct at 3:30 in the vid below Kevin went left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIm8saj4Cr8&

 petegunn 21 Feb 2021
In reply to remus:

Is that the video where there's a funny moment with George Taylor and the tape marker on the rope and gri gri? 

Edit just found it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-OdxfCrXe4&

Post edited at 21:07
In reply to petegunn:

A pretty amazing achievement, wasn't it? The way Pearson climbs it in that video is wonderful. I simply find it so hard to believe that with all the alleged climbing talent around now that none of the best guys have done it in 13 years. It's surely one of the greatest, most compelling pure lines on grit.

 Tom V 21 Feb 2021
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Agree totally and the point made about not using mats is quite relevant when you consider the height of what seems to be the crux move.

 Wicamoi 21 Feb 2021
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Instead of paying proper attention to the climbing, I just found myself thinking about how it would be for Pearson and his current and his ex-partner to watch this footage again, and know it is public and public forever. I grew up in different time, thank god.

 Tom V 21 Feb 2021
In reply to Wicamoi:

I know nothing about him or his partners . I'm just glad the piece of climbing has been recorded for what it was. The same as with Pete Whittaker on Dynamics of Change: it's not about who's holding the rope     ( with the greatest respect to his mum) ; it's all about the move and what follows.

 Wicamoi 21 Feb 2021
In reply to Tom V:

Fair enough, and I'm not objecting to the recording at all. I know next to nothing about him either. But if you don't notice his (ex) partner in that footage then you aren't paying attention to everything that's going on.

In reply to Wicamoi:

More the dodgy palm up belaying...

 Offwidth 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I know a few others who worked the bottom section bur they said the true finish was likely adjectivally the crux for them (despite a proposed nominal E6 6c grade). You don't get to claim half a route so it's still unrepeated as far as I know.

 DannyC 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Offwidth:

Absolutely. Particularly as the line that Jorgesen followed is clearly inferior and indirect, missing out a really cool-looking bit of climbing.  

D. 

Post edited at 09:30
In reply to Wicamoi:

There's a great interview with him here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HWeMGzZC_4& where they go into a fair bit of detail about his significant ascents, including this one. I don't remember them chatting about the awkwardness of ex-girlfriends in the films though.....

 Tom V 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Wicamoi:

i noticed a woman but for all I knew it could have been his sister.

 Sherlock 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Gordon Stainforth

It's surely one of the greatest, most compelling pure lines on grit.

Absolutely a brilliant piece of climbing but can't agree with your statement above.

To my mind a great line has to be inescapable and impossible to climb 'around' the actual line whatever the grade. Routes like Archangel and Parthenon Shot spring to mind. And before anyone chirps up, Gaia/Harder Faster are different routes😊.

 Michael Gordon 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Tom V:

> Agree totally and the point made about not using mats is quite relevant when you consider the height of what seems to be the crux move.

It's a strong ethical stance, but does it really make sense? If something can be protected with a mat or two, then why not use it.

 wbo2 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Wicamoi: it's a climbing video, not Love Island.  I watched the climbing 

Re. Mats, I've never quite understood the objection.  Why are cams OK, not pads? 

Post edited at 19:57
In reply to wbo2:

I don't think it was the actual use of pads that was the problem, more that climbs were graded for without, then climbed with and people saying (and possibly believing) I've climbed E6 for example, when of course with the pads it was much less serious.

No problem really until that person thinks they can climb E6 and gets stuffed on an E6 where the pads make bugger all difference and they get hurt.

There was of course all the offence taken by others where people said they'd climbed E6 when really it was much easier than E6 because the boldness had been reduced - but that's not really a problem nowadays because most who use mats will be interested in the V or Font grade rather than the E grade, and it wasn't really a problem then except with people's egos.

 Wicamoi 22 Feb 2021
In reply to Tom V:

> i noticed a woman but for all I knew it could have been his sister.

You were one of those lads at school who never realised which lassies fancied him, weren't you?😀

 Wicamoi 22 Feb 2021
In reply to wbo2:

We all notice and ignore different things - I was a little distracted from the climbing by something more interesting to me, and I never even noticed Misha's point about belaying. Tom V sees the female lead actually kiss the hero but thereafter remembers her as possibly the hero's sister. Meanwhile, despite the film-maker's obvious interest in non-climbing aspects you consider it "a climbing video," as if that means there can be no human relationships involved in it.

I mean, we're all fallible, but is it any wonder women seem to be so scarce on this site?

 mcawle 22 Feb 2021
 Wicamoi 23 Feb 2021
In reply to mcawle:

Sorry. You'd need to read the whole thread, but I wouldn't particularly recommend it.

 Michael Gordon 23 Feb 2021
In reply to Wicamoi:

> Instead of paying proper attention to the climbing, I just found myself thinking about how it would be for Pearson and his current and his ex-partner to watch this footage again

I doubt they do ever watch it. The perils of (ex)relationships! Yes, I guess a bit of a pity but he'll probably have got over it by the stage of reflecting on past glories in his dotage. 

 Tom V 23 Feb 2021
In reply to Wicamoi:

Got to fess up, I saw a woman but not a kiss so maybe my attention was lacking.

As to the scarcity of women on this site, I'm often left wondering  about who's a woman  because a lot of the names are fairly androgynous. I must admit that Misha's name wrongfooted me for quite a bit. 

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

>  I simply find it so hard to believe that with all the alleged climbing talent around now that none of the best guys have done it in 13 years.

Why do you use the word "alleged" here, Gordon? It implies that you are questioning such talent, and really doesn't reflect well on you - it's rather "untoward". Not entirely uncharacteristic, admittedly. 

 PaulJepson 23 Feb 2021
In reply to Tom V:

Ah young love! If you've seen the films about these ascents then you do get the impression that they were besotted. It's certainly implied that The Promise (E8 7a) was named in her honour. 

It's similar to photos on social media though I guess. There's some people who will go through and delete any photos of them with an ex, and some people who are insecure enough to go through their partners photos of old relationships. Most people don't bother with either though. Caro doesn't come across as particularly insecure. 

In reply to PaulJepson:

The Walk of Life film is good in that there's none of that soppy stuff and it's all about being scared with a big juicy gear-ripping fall thrown in for good measure.

 robate 20:14 Tue
In reply to Blue Straggler:

I have no problem with GS comments, I find them straightforward and in no way reflecting badly.. thought the same myself..

In reply to robate:

> I have no problem with GS comments, I find them straightforward

The grammar was really messy too, for an alleged multi-award winning author  

In reply to Blue Straggler:

> The grammar was really messy too, for an alleged multi-award winning author  

Yes, it was an ill-chosen word and a lousy sentence.

I don't suppose you realise but a lot of us using the internet make very quick comments while busy doing something else. I rarely get into long discussions. 

BTW, I've been off the internet for two days because my Home hub failed (now replaced.)

 Offwidth 14:39 Wed
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Talk about Muphrys law..... how can you be an alleged multi award winning author unless running a scam on the ignorant? You are either are, or you are not. 

 Lankyman 15:12 Wed
In reply to Offwidth:

> Talk about Muphrys law..... how can you be an alleged multi award winning author unless running a scam on the ignorant? You are either are, or you are not. 


Drinking Murphys allegedly are you not or either law?

In reply to Offwidth:

> Talk about Muphrys law..... how can you be an alleged multi award winning author unless running a scam on the ignorant? You are either are, or you are not. 

That was quite deliberate, sir. 

 robate 20:34 Wed
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Hey, possibly contentious , but..

At first sight The Groove looks like the best line ever but it's climbed as a kind of an arete problem and is only a couple of admittedly awesome moves long. I actually tried it in the 80s and couldn't climb the groove at all. If it were given to me to climb one great route now I can think of several others I'd go for; to be clear E1 makes me concentrate these days!

In reply to robate:

I simply said I thought it was one of the greatest, most compelling lines. It would be nice to hear your suggestions. 

In reply to robate:

A great feature rather than a great line?

 robate 21:38 Wed
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Ok, sticking to Grit, these are routes I most certainly will never get on.. but which I personally would drive a long way just to look at:

Gaia, what a great line

Gerry Berwick at Ilkley, really, really intimidating

Having said that Cratcliffe is a wonderful place, even if the man in the house below the crag did once set his dog on us while polishing his Ferrari.

Post edited at 21:43
In reply to robate:

> Gerry Berwick at Ilkley, really, really intimidating> 

Surely New Statesman is THE line there though?

In reply to robate:

Surely Gaia is an escape from a line. It looks brilliant, but its essence (not from personal experience) appears to be; phew, hard move but at least I'm up into this groove, gently up, gently, gently, rest position, where the f**k do I go now?

Of course everyone knows you go out right with a tricky balance/slopers move before reaching the arête, but the essence is the unlikely escape from a blank position.

If Gaia carried on directly up the "groove" it would be a better line, but probably not such a memorable (or good) climb.

Post edited at 08:14
 Tom V 08:20 Thu
In reply to robate:

When did Gerty transition?

 robate 09:00 Thu
In reply to Tom V:

Shortly before realising his calling as a flower arranger in Harrogate in 1951, following his epoch making but unacknowledged first ascent of the worlds first E9 while belayed by Don Whillans. 

Gerty and Don were of course the founder members of the League of Gentlemen CC..

Post edited at 09:08
In reply to Michael Hood:

While I agree with you that most of the best lines are straight, Gaia I think is one of the few exceptions to the rule. It's hard to say though; with Gaia unlike most routes it's hard to separate the line from the history, the fear, the slopers, the fall potential etc. 

In reply to Michael Gordon:

As per the other thread https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/a_good_line-731602?v=1#x9412928 - I tend to think of a good line in rock architecture terms - others think a wandering route that allows a relatively easy climb through harder territory is a good line.

With Gaia, the climbing leaves the good line in rock architecture terms - which would be straight up - if you define a good line as following an inescapable path (ignoring Harder Faster) then Gaia is a good line.

I don't think anyone's arguing about Gaia being a good climb. Luckily (?), I'll never be good enough to do it 😁


Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.
Loading Notifications...