UKC

The Trophy Crack thread go me thinking...

VDiff chop routes, there must be a few out there.

I nominate Arrow Route on Sron na Ciche for starters...

In reply to Removed User:

Arrow Route is a softy compared to some.

Our peak grit list which contains many such routes is here:

http://www.eee.ntu.ac.uk/offwidth/vds_topten.html

(being on the guidebook team now these will all get dealt with soon now)

In reply to Removed User:

To be V diff chop routes the technical standard would have be more akin to a Moderate or Diff

In reply to mkean: Which part of 'chop route' do you not understand?

In reply to Removed User:

Not unique to the UK btw. Did a 5.4 at JT last year which felt like HVS 5b to me. Might have backed off but was too scared to reverse the moves.

In reply to Removed User:

I reckon one or two on Llewidd might be contenders - especially in the damp.

In reply to Removed User: Ok let's expand the criteria to Severe and under.

Add Doris at Ilkley to the list...

Next.

In reply to Removed User:

Severe and under... Dawn Walk in the Avon Gorge. Don't want to fall off the little bit up to the penultimate belay!

In reply to Removed User:

The way off Milestone Buttress and Idwal

(retires to safe distance)

In reply to James Jackson:

Aurora at Stoney, severe but still poorly protected.

Long climb at Laddow first pitch never used to have protection but may have something now.

In reply to sutty: First pitch of Aurora is poorly protected but VS 4b these days.

In reply to Removed User:

There are a couple on Mam Tor if the guidebook is to be believed.

In reply to James Jackson:


I though the initial traverse woulds give a worse swing into the corner below the first belay. Clipping a combination of the rotten pegs (once you get there) should just about protect up to the penultimate belay I would have thought; wouldn't want to test it though!

In reply to davidbeynon:

Yes Mam Tor Gully in summer is lethal, at least it is in the rain.

Not really vdiff though, it's just that no holds stay in place.

Similarly, the initial bits of Matterhorn Ridge and Elbow Ridge offer little in the way of protection from what I remember, but they hardly deserve diff either.

In reply to Removed User: The Vertical Vice on Chasm Route, Glyder Fach. Well, it felt very bleedin' difficult in big boots and a sack!

In reply to Cardi: Yes but is it a 'chop route'.

Also I am not sure Elbow or Matterhorn Ridge can be included, they are protectable where needed I think.

In reply to Removed User: Elbow ridge is well protected and about scramble grade 3, Matterhorn Ridge is dodgy and definitely a chop route, we found 1 crap friend and a poor loose wire in the last 25m of it and you're a fair way up by that point anyway.

In reply to Removed User:

Have we had High Tor Gully yet ?

In reply to Removed User:
The Arete on Hen Cloud..not sure if it's a "chop" route but it certainly is a "stop" route for a VDiff!....a Diff with a VS move just where there is exposure and no gear!

In reply to MattG:

I agree about the lack of gear on matterhorn ridge - I remember getting about 2 pieces per pitch.

That's no reason not to climb it though, as it is awesome

In reply to Chris.Allott:
Excellent Choice,A long time ago I backed off this when a mate and I had decided to "run up this diff for a quick last route of the day".
I've done it since but definitely worrying.
sjm

In reply to Removed User: Main Slab Route to the Perch on Gill Crag in Dovedale (Lakes). Second pitch is 110 feet of excellent slab climbing but with no protection whatsover.

In reply to georgeingblod: Good stuff, that's on the to-do list.

In reply to Removed User:

Jitter Face, Stanage.

J

In reply to Removed User: What is a chop route?

In reply to hairynortherner:

A chop route is one were if you fcuk it up your almost guaranteed brown bread...

Plenty to choose from in the higher grades.

In reply to Removed User:

Totaly agree friend. When I did it late 60's it was a Diff. Scary.

In reply to Removed User:
Fence Edge at Polldubh. Gets MS in the guidebook, hahaha!

In reply to Only a hill: A pleasant well protected climb according to the database?

In reply to Ropeboy:

Isn't that a hard severe?

In reply to Removed User:

That's copied directly from the guidebook. We found that all the cracks were filled with mud and the entire climb was mossy and far too sustained to be MS. A nasty shock as we were expecting something far less difficult. It is, for example, much harder than Three Pines via the direct start (which now gets S 4a).

In reply to Only a hill: But is it a chop route!!!!!

In reply to Removed User:

Moonjelly, Reiff. Guaranteed to make a splash if you feck it up.

In reply to Ropeboy:



Yer - not a runner in sight on that baby - lovely climb tho!

Si

In reply to Removed User:

is arrow route really that serious...? i was thinking about it for next week; i was aware its fairly sparsely protected higher up, but if the consensus is its a death route, i think i might give it a miss this time....

In reply to biped:

I didn't think there was much point in leading it tbh. Only runners are at the bottom of the slab. It makes a good solo--and it is easy for VDiff.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Maybe skinned alive is more realistic?

In reply to Queequeg: The best protection on the route would be a set of motorbike leathers.

In reply to sutty:

there's definitely at least three good gear placements on that bottom pitch - and I don't understand why it's the bottom pitch and not the top that gets the technical grade.

In reply to Removed User:

Hehe, might even protect from the midges too, but I doubt it.

In reply to Queequeg:

Used to be a VDiff or something till recently. I think it's still 'naughty' at S. There are no runners and the ground drops away above a bad landing.

J

In reply to Removed User:

Agreed. In 1995 it was one of my first routes back on rock after being hospitalized four months before in an avalanche, and I remember being absolutely, utterly terrified. On a V Diff!

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Re Arrow Route - it's not that sparsely protected if you have a few cams, just quite run out. Potential for a slide, rather than a plummet - I'm not sure it's really fair to call it a chop route. And it is only V Diff, there are no trick moves or nasty surprises. It feels pretty intense for the grade, but I wonder whether anyone has ever actually slipped off it?
The rock is as rough as I've seen anywhere, except for some jaggy ignimbrite in New Zealand. I have a suspicion that, if you lay down flat on it, you wouldn't actually slip. I don't quite have the courage to test this, though!

In reply to Removed User: Cooper`s Slab, Rocky Valley, Ilkley. It`s only Diff- go and do it...

In reply to lummox:

VDiff with a 'heart' in Northern England

http://www.rockfax.com/databases/r.php?i=24959


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs: when did they upgrade it ? I don`t know- when I were a lad etc.

In reply to Removed User: Is Great Gully a chop route? Not done it, but are the hard/slimy bits reasonably protected?

In reply to Cardi: Dunno.

2 at Ilkley so far. Though to be honest I reckon the chances of surviving a fall off an 8m grit route are pretty reasonable and the ground slopes away quite nicely under Coopers Slab if I remember, so should it included?

In reply to Removed User: If you reckon you could brush yourself off after a fall from Cooper`s, you must be made out of the same stuff as Wolverine...

In reply to Removed User: Gangway climb at castle rock. No gear. Like, actually, NO gear!

In reply to Removed User:

Sandy Buttress at Rylstone? VD and has one rather LOL piece of gear from memory. Also quite long for a grit route. Made me wobble a bit.

In reply to davepwsmith: Yes there are a couple o' necky routes on the South side of Castle Rock. I remember having a wobbler on Via Media many moons ago.

In reply to davepwsmith:

Gangway climb has a good pink tricam placement about half way up the gangway.

In reply to Everyone:

A chop route is NOT a route that you might die on if you are incompetent at spotting/placing gear. That could be ANY route.

A chop route is one with NO physically placeable gear that would stop you mashing yourself where you to come off at an inopportune moment.

In reply to Removed User:

I recon a fairly large proportion of VD's must be chop routes, simply due to the number of large ledges to hit.

In reply to Removed User: ..so Doris and Cooper`s Slab then.

In reply to Removed User:

I forgot about Doris. I think I actually leaked a little when close to topping out on that.

In reply to Kid Spatula:

I had a real wobble on this one as well, the clue is in the name =:o0

However, falling off wouldn't kill you up to the point you can fiddle some gear that should hold. A truely horrible route.

In reply to Removed User:

The problem is that there is absolutely nowhere to put any gear. Maybe a s sky hook

In reply to skog: I remember leaving small cams in the uppermost end of the leftwards-slanting crack, but that's a long way (30 m?) from the top.

In reply to Snorkers:
There's a lot more than that if you look for it, e.g.:
http://www.dreamsofmountains.co.uk/summer2004/20040731Arrow.JPG

In reply to skog: All right its off the list. I seem to have got 2 pieces in it http://www.flickr.com/photos/hydn_mrtn/541388487/sizes/l/

Funny how the memory plays tricks eh.

In reply to Removed User:



I decked from the top of our stairs once, does that count

In reply to Removed User:
It certainly feels very bold. It must've been quite intense in the days before cams and modern nuts!

On your expanded-to-include Severe list, still on Skye, the actual white slab on White Slab should make the list. There's little gear to stop you decking out, and there are quite a few snappy holds. How it got stars in the guidebook I don't know.

In reply to Removed User:

I though Via Media was well protected. Brilliant route all the same.

In reply to skog:

At severe, I reckon some of those slabs in Glen Rosa are pretty run out as well.

In reply to Removed User:


So beautiful... and unforgiving.

Mick

Remember it well - fortunately was at the right end of the rope

In reply to Ropeboy:

First time I went up, came back down. Second time I went up, ended up doingTownsends - looked easier. Eventually went and did it properly - always felt more at least like VS 4a to me.

In reply to Si dH:

At the Mod grade - The Crescent Climb - Pavey Ark - Not much gear on that that I can recall.

In reply to Roger Martin:

I climbing buddy put me off doing Crescent Climb for just that reason. He can normally get gear in anything but advised that on the first 55m pitch he got one dodgy sling in after about 35m.

In reply to PDL:

I think I got 2 bits of gear in on that pitch. Quite run out for a mod.

You can get plenty in on the traverse though, and the final slab is fine too.

In reply to GrahamD: Yes, the South Slabs in Glen Rosa in Arran, as well as being some of the most beautiful mid-grade granite slabs in the country, are pretty unprotected. I seem to remember the top pitches of Pussyfoot, Blank and Pochmahone (in about 1967, mind) having nothing - "nae runners, nae hauds" - for 120 to 150 feet. But pretty difficult to slide off, so even the prospect of a 250 foot slide doesn't really make them "chop routes".

As an aside, the photodiagram in Garry Latter's new book looks a bit off regarding the line of Blank. It shouldn't go nearly as far left as it shows, and finishes pretty much up the middle of the top slab. The SMC guide shows it accurately.

In reply to PDL: I found that pitch pretty nervy too. I got a bit more than that but mostly slings on blunt spikes and small wires in shallow cracks. In big-boots in the rain it was a little more spicy that I was expecting!

In reply to Lemony: And yes, I think it may well count as a Mod chop route on that first pitch.

In reply to GrahamD:

Yes, I can certainly back this statement up, having gone mildly off route and ending up in a world of upside down holds, still piss easy but dibilitatingly odd climbing.

In reply to Removed User:

I have been warned off various routes on the slabs on Carnedd Y Filiast. When I mentioned that my planned visit last year had been rained off I was told that god was smiling on me.

In reply to Removed User:

Some of the Filiast routes are OK, some of them are properly, utterly gear less. I think I had 50m of rope out at one point with absolutely feck all gear and only 10m of rope left to find a belay.

Bit spicey.

In reply to davidbeynon:

Silly view...Left Edge is a brilliant VD up there...any crag has obscure routes that may be uncovered sandbags through lack of traffic.

In reply to Removed User:

Yeah Left Edge is good and does have gear.

In reply to Offwidth:

That's good, as I was planning to go back in a couple of weeks and climb it anyway. Weather permitting.

In reply to davidbeynon:
No need to wait for the weather, some friends climbed in in January, brushing the snow of the holds near the top (we were winter climbing on the black ladders at the time).

In reply to Removed User: One general question.

Am I the only one using this thread as the starting point for a wish list?

'

In reply to davidbeynon:

Good.. thats a benefit of such threads.

In reply to davidbeynon: Nope, I've pencilled a few in account of this!

In reply to Removed User:
not a chop route but a stop route for the aspiring VD climber Crack and corner HVD 4b on Stanage. If you can get off the ground you are ready for Severe.
Kelly's Shelf HVD at the Roaches is quite tricky at the grade and you always feel that you might slide off the ledge.
I reckon most chop routes would be chimneys though. Just wedge and udge.

In reply to Removed User:

The Slab pitch on Rib and Slab in the pass?

In reply to Removed User:

possibly the most esoteric, chop route I have encountered is 'Archangel' on Trollavall, Rhum.
I should have realised from the description:
"spread wings of faith" across a 6ft wide gap from pillar to back wall, a slip from which is definitely going to mean your partner carrying you (or your carcass)out the full day walk-in.

PC

In reply to Queequeg:

To be honest, it's so long since I did it, it's probably that I'm thinking of. Unless I didn't bother clipping the pegs either.

In reply to Removed User: I have a horrible memory of Pine Tree at Taffs Well. I noted in my guide VS 4a was more like it. Also would be a candidate for worst three star route (which it is given in the 1991 Gower & SE Wales guide.
Also in that area is White Edge VD. It is 36m and I swear there isn't a single sound runner on the route, just wires behind movable flakes.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Pine Tree was graded H Diff when I went to Cardiff University in 1969. Already at least one person had been killed on it. I was one of those who argued it should be upgraded to V Diff.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Back Step Chimney on The Whangie