UKC

At what age did your climbing performance peak?
The easy quantifier being top grade I suppose.

If you haven't peaked yet - when do you think this age will be?

In reply to yh001:

Thus far:
Highest grade, age 37ish
Most fulfilling route, age 41ish

If talking about sport onsight, then similar grade in 20s, 30s and 40s (haven't managed it while in 50s ... yet)
Trad onsight I'm less sure about but almost certainly similar to sport.

In reply to yh001:


58

In reply to yh001:


I reckon it will take me two years from when I retire to be properly rejuvenated, fully fit and firing on all cylinders. So hopefully 60.

If I'm still climbing hard at 50 I'd be a happy man even if I'm not breaking personal records.

In reply to yh001:

21; second lesser peak 59.

In reply to yh001:

Currently climbing better than ever at 53 and hoping the best is yet to come!

In reply to yh001:
Depends if you mean in absolute or relative terms. I was climbing routes that, would today, get E3 back in the 60's/70's when I was in my 20's and early 30's. The top guys were probably putting up routes that now warrant E4. In absolute terms I climbed my hardest grades in my late 50's when I was climbing consistently at E4 and f7a with the very occasional E5 thrown in. I have to say that I consider my achievements in the 70's as more significant than the later ones. There was still quite a high death potential back then and that tends to focus's the mind and temper the ambition.

Al

In reply to yh001:

Can't remember.

In reply to yh001:

Around the age of 42, just before my latent interest in mountain biking took over. Generally speaking I was fitter in my 40s than I was in my 20s or 30s. But the minute I turned 50 (earlier this year) and the body waved a little white flag, gave up and now I'm an old man in pain

In reply to yh001:

At the ages of 18 (HVS), 20 (E1), 33 (E2) and 45 (E1), with bad drops in standard between (other things in life/career etc). The last time I climbed well and confidently was at the age of 49 (HVS). Grades in brackets are on-sight trad leads.

In reply to yh001:

Trad 24
Sport onsight 45
Sport worked 53

In reply to yh001:

I'm 51 and a physical wreck, but I'm wiser, calmer and more focussed than I used to be so top grades have stayed about the same for 30 years.
Sadly I only get out a few times a year to try and prove the fact....

In reply to yh001:

Best trad time: two or three years either side of 50. Mostly E2 - E4 but occasionally E5. I once did a route with an E6 tag in the SW but the bastards downgraded it in a later guide.

Now, 22 years on it's nearly all Sport. On a good day I occasionally try hard on 7a, sometimes successfully. 7a+ is proving to be a step too far so I might be peaking now.

Certainly, the fun quotient - of which you express no curiosity - while solving the mental and physical problems inherent in climbing lumps of rock is as great now as it ever was. But then, there's more to it than simply that, eh?

In reply to Anotherclimber:


The vast majority of climbers I meet seem to love it, regardless of age or grade. So it's maybe not really worth asking?

In reply to yh001:

On sight 7a sport for over 10 years now, last 4 years E3, bohldering flashed v7 10 years ago. I probably physically peaked 4 to 6 years ago. But am reluctant to drop any grade what so ever. So mentally still near the top, even if the body says I'm old and shite. I'm now 41 btw.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Best not ask then.

In reply to Anotherclimber:


I just assume it's mostly a given, but that doesn't mean I'm right.

I mentioned in case your experienced differed?

In reply to Kevster:


My body also says I'm old and shite. And I am. But my mind says, 'F*ck it, try harder!'

Mick (almost 65)

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

I agree with your assumption but only in a surface skimming way. There are those who use risk-sports to satisfy or mask underlying issues with "fun" coming into it only as a self-justification and in which case, it's not really fun at all. Just an opinion but I nevertheless base it on personal and professional observations.

In reply to Anotherclimber:


Maybe fun isn't the best word, not that it doesn't involve fun, but a climbing day can involve a large spectrum of emotions, even on bolts. Overall? Fulfilling, satisfying? Haven't noticed the masking or self-justification much really, but maybe that comes from more serious, risk seeking climbers.

In reply to jimtitt:

Are these Australian grades? ????

In reply to Mick Ward:


Mick
I'm a relatively sprightly 57. Got back from Font on Sunday after climbing 7 full days and no rest days. Circuits and sessions off piste. Lugged mats up hill and down dale, and had the very best climbing holiday ever. Not sure I managed 7 days on the trot at the crag even back in the day. I'm old and shite too and bumbly/punter (as per the other thread), relying on footwork and out thinking the probs now....

In reply to yh001:

Peak so far was at about 48, coinciding with when I was doing the most climbing and training regularly.

I'm not far off that now at 54 and should (hope to) improve on it further within the next couple of years.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

You might if you look more closely. Anyway, I think we've both wasted enough time on this already. All the best.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:


Brilliant! So glad you had such a great experience. Have also climbed/trained for the last seven days. (But not in Font.)


Dear Lord, finesse rears its ugly head! And technical foot faggotry. What would the gentlemen of the '80s think of us?

Mick ("If in doubt, don't bloody well run it out...")

In reply to yh001:

I did my hardest trad routes in '93/'94 when I was 23/24, my hardest redpoint in 2007 and since then done a route one grade below a few times. Bizarrely my sport onsight has remained fairly static, between 93 and now, rising and falling a grade between holidays depending on fitness and venue (although there does seem to have been a downward trend in the last couple of years).

In reply to Anotherclimber:

My question is with fun as given. Though as 1poundSOCKS mentioned, it's slightly more than that for me.
I revel in the exposure, the nature, the mental and physical problem solving. It's also about the accomplishments following hard work, commitment, dedication, and understanding risks. Sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's torturous, though ultimately satisfying, sanity preserving, and life enhancing. When it stops being those things, I will stop climbing.

In reply to yh001:

Late 30s after a couple of winters training in my garage with Graham Parkes. We went from being solid at E2 to climbing E4 most days out and E5 occasionally.

Various injuries (elbows in particular) slowed me down but GP went on to greater thingsm, up to E6 iirc.

Chris

In reply to yh001:
It would be interesting to analyse the ages of people for top sport versus trad grades.
Do peoples' heads generally degenerate earlier or later than their body?

I also suspect that trad suffers more with the responsibilities that come with age such as family. Maintaining a sport standard by going to the wall two or three times per week and then getting the odd euro bolt-clipping trip is probably logistically much easier for most than keeping trad standards up.

In reply to Robert Durran:

No you just become more conscious of your own mortality. I probably would not take up climbing now if it was like it was back in the 60's. But then on the other hand I'm not sure that I would take it up now with all the commercialism and competitions etc. It's nothing like the activity that attracted me when I was young.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:


I would put that under "head degenerating". But I see your point!

In reply to yh001:

1969 - Left Unconquerable - E1

Next best, 2007 - 3 Pebble Slab - HVS

In reply to yh001:

Mid twenties for sport. 25kg lighter than today, and daily gym and judo sessions. Being able to do one armed, one finger pull ups easily compensates for shit technique, especially on Frankenjura limestone.

Alpine, mid to late 40s (now), as experience counts for so much more.

CB

In reply to Rog Wilko:

About 1997 according to your logbook

For me it's this year. Hopefully next year will continue the progression.

In reply to cb294:


Alpine, 25, as fear of dying counts for so much more.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I agree, I have become much more careful and turn around earlier than I would have when I was younger. Still, I think I am better on Alpine routes now as compared to 20 years ago.

CB

In reply to yh001:


Well put. I tend to hold the view that "fun" is something only children have, while adults look for stronger and more complex emotions, together with endorphins/adrenalin.

In reply to Michael Gordon:


So the best climber is the one having the strongest and most complex emotions?

In reply to Anotherclimber:


Ha ha, I thought you wanted to discuss this!!!

In reply to yh001:

Yesterday, aged 45. Finally red pointed a 7b+ route I've been working for months, but I'll soon be moving back to Surrey where the lack of rock will ruin any chance of improving.

In reply to yh001:

In terms of hardest grades, 25. A time when I was climbing regularly, but not being particularly methodical about training.

I climb much less now, but experience of other sports, part of the reason I climb less, suggests that if I dedicated myself to climbing for a period, trained my weaknesses in a methodical manner and got lots of mileage, I could improve on that peak of more than 15 years ago.

In reply to Robert Durran:


I stopped Alpine climbing at the age of 22, after just five seasons. Had had too many close shaves.

In reply to yh001:

Looking just at bouldering for me, in terms of pure physical ability its probably been this year aged 32. I've climbed my hardest grades ever and I've climbed much more close to that grade as well, I've definitely noticed a rise in the bar overall.

But I think It should have been in my early 20's really, that was when my body was at it's peak, the difference is now I've got more focus and more dedication to improvement. If I was as focused in my early 20's as I am now I'm sure I'd have climbed much harder then what my body can do now.

In reply to yh001:

21 - onsighted some E1s. Back in 1986. Since then, life has got in the way.

In reply to Anotherclimber:
>Best trad time: two or three years either side of 50. Mostly E2 - E4 but occasionally E5. I once did a route with an E6 tag in the SW but the bastards downgraded it in a later guide.<

I reckon if you've still got the old guide with the tick against it at E6, then it still counts

In reply to the OP, currently 53 and I reckon I can still squeeze a bit more out of me to get in Right Wall and a sport 7b, but as far as bouldering goes I've had it....just don't have the power or flexibility any more.

In reply to yh001:



Interesting question. Although my best climbing grades were probably when I was in my late 30s my technical ability improved after that to mostly compensate my declining strength, stamina and flexibility.

In the late 90's I was leading (selected) E2s and now (aged 57 and climbing way less frequently) I'm leading selected E1s. Best sport grade (I never really got into working sport routes) was and is around 6a+/6b.

In reply to yh001:

like your previous thread... if you need to ask...

In reply to yh001:

When I was 25, in 1988, I led my first E1s and had a decent fortnight in the Alps too. One Saturday in the following spring I was leading HVS 5b quite comfortably and looking to establish myself at E1 before pushing onwards.

Six days after leading that HVS my right hand was so weak I couldn't hold a pen to write my name. That puzzled me, and my GP, but righted itself after about five weeks and so on I went; until much to my surprise I fell off the end of the second pitch of Spectre (HVS 5a). If you know the climb then the pitch I'd just done goes up a corner groove until you're forced out left to a slab, which after some prevarication I crossed. I was just moving to a stance on Nea to catch my breath and work out where I went next, transferring my weight to my left foot while reaching for a hold with my left hand when I fell; my right hand had suddenly stopped working again and had released its grip and down I went. All the runners I'd so carefully arranged for the slab traverse popped out and when my second stopped me, I was held by a friend at the top of the corner groove. Getting back to my second was fun; we got off the cliff through his lead of the pitch I'd just fallen off and after some confusion - we'd intended to follow the last pitches of Nea (VS 4b) for a quick descent, but these had recently fallen off - I trembled my way up the last pitch of Spectre.

I was never as good again. The one thing that has stuck in my mind was that when I inadvertently lost contact with the rock there was a chap to my left, just feet away, belayed on Nea. I wonder what he thought and whether it spoiled or made his day?

T.

In reply to yh001:

First 7a lead in 1988 aged 33, last 7a in 1998 aged 43.
First 7a+ lead in 1988, last 7a+ in 1994 aged 39.
E5 6b lead in 1999 aged 44.

Currently top leading grades 6b/6b+ aged 62. Hope I can build on this over the next few years, that is if my body and elbows hold together!

In reply to Mick Ward:


Hi Mick,
That's very impressive, climbing/training seven days in a row!
What is your secret?
Chris

In reply to yh001:

Not sure totally of your question, my hardest trad leads were 3-4 years ago (45), I grow older and more knackered each day, but even now I couldn't say that I won't better a previous high point. I didn't come to climbing until my thirties, and my physical peak was probably 24-26, but then climbing is a skill based sport, so physical ability is only part of the picture.

So if your question is can you climb hard when older, then clearly yes. Your peak performance is when your physical and mental game peak at the same time.

In reply to yh001:

Peaked at 27.
Recovering from injury / surgery ATM.

I have more peaking to do I hope.
Or else I'm just going surfing instead.

In reply to yh001:

Seems as though I "peaked" (if you can call it that) in the middle of each of the first 5 decades I was climbing, between which were slumps in grade/confidence. Thus I have had a number of peaks, but all at about the same grade.

1) Early twenties- started climbing and became confident on VSs - meaning today's VS/HVS - our Lakeland and Yorks guide books had no grade above VS. Lancs did not have a guide book at all.
2) Early thirties - climbing extremes and confident on what would now be E1 and E2; Alpine VI
3) Early forties - Got back again to 2)
4) Early fifties - see 3)
5) Early sixties - see4)
6)Early seventies - Elderly Punter! (see other recent thread)

Thus I could say I peaked in my early thirties when we were doing (without friends, chalk or decent shoes) what would now be E1 and E2 (5b & 5c) when the top boys were on today's E3s and E4s so we felt not all that far off. Then came the revolution that was in this country Livesey inspired, when attitudes and training changed, coinciding with developments like micro wires, Friends, sticky rubber, chalk. all of which products I acquired and adopted just to keep me climbing at the same level! Meanwhile standards shot up and by 1980 we were as far off the top as we'd been the day we started. Ho hum.

In reply to yh001:

Trad - late teens and early twenties - on-sighted E2 regularly with the odd E3/E4 ticked. Don't trad climb currently but think E5 O/S is still possible at some point.

Bouldering - managed first official 7B+ last year at 35, after being stuck around the 7A/7A+ grade for a few years... struggling a bit this year although have probably climbed thereabouts indoors, so not sure if I've gone backwards or forwards on the physical side.

At 36 I'd like to think I could still climb harder but the gains are definitely few and far between these days.

In reply to yh001:
Personally whilst acknowledging the physical limitations which unarguably come with age, in my case not getting out climbing enough is probably a bigger factor, but then my ambitions are modest at E4 and f7a. Age 69.

Al

In reply to yh001:

Just before I fell off.

In reply to yh001:


In my twenties (the eighties) I used to think that by the time I hit my thirties that hard climbing would be over because back then there seemed to be nobody that improved beyond that age. Fortunately that proved not to be the case though personal improvement has been glacially slow (diminishing returns, advent of kids etc) at times.

There are now so many examples of amazing performances at advanced ages that I think physical deterioration due to age is usually less of a barrier to climbing improvement than loss of motivation, injury and personal circumstances.

In reply to yh001:

I'd like to see Joe Brown, or Ron Fawcett's answer to this

In reply to yh001:
Def not peaked yet at 53, not really looking to get beyond present peaks of sport 8a or trad E5 but barring unforeseen medical issues getting in the way I hope to maintain this level through my remaining 50's. Definitely got stronger in last five years again.

In reply to yh001:
I have had two periods of active climbing in my life separated by a middle section where I just pottered.
In my 20's I was leading VS/HVS and following E1s but my technique was pretty poor - my determination & ambition got me through.
I am now in my late 60's and for the last five years or so I have done lots of indoor climbing. My technique is now much better and I get a huge buzz out of completing a climb in good style. However, when I climb outside I am now following VS & leading Severe on a good day because my head constrains me.
So in a way there are two peaks in my performance.

In reply to yh001:

Next weekend....always next weekend

In reply to yh001:

About 30 years ago, all downhill since then.

Mind you, the uphill was never very steep...

In reply to yh001:

I hit my peak when I was 21-22 I suppose. I have stayed on the same happy plateau ever since really (35 years at E2-E3) As far as winter climbing is concerned, I've got better because the gear is so much improved. I suppose I could have done better - but lacked training facilities in my youth and inclination to train, as opposed to 'just keeping my hand in' , later.

In reply to yh001:

My athletic peak was in my early 20s - 1975 through to 80. In that period I was fearless, strong, agile and bouncy, and despite the clunky footwear, relatively basic gear, absence of pads and climbing walls, was climbing E3, 4 and 5 and bouldered around Font 7A+ which then was all pretty good. There was no 'sport climbing'.....

Some time passed - I have never stopped climbing..... Which is I think key. Despite several climbing related surgeries I have all my own joints - very lucky.

I'm now in my early 60s and I'm doing much the same, sometimes tickle the odd Font 7B and 'on sight flash' the occasional 7b sport route (Which didn't exist BITD - and even now I don't do much 'sport'). Without doubt what I can do now reflects modern gear, training knowledge, facilities and a stubborn refusal to give up! I am also surrounded my an extremely motivated much younger crowd which does drag you along somewhat.

I think I have some room for improvement - not so much in strength at my age, as that risks injury. But I think I could work on my endurance, not that there's much application for it up here!

Steve

In reply to yh001:



Well said. I've often thought 'fun' is the wrong word to describe the climbing experience. Your description captures it much better.

In reply to yh001:




I have no plans to peak.........

In reply to yh001:

I'm pretty much climbing the same sort of grades I have since 1992. Just now is not so much about pushing the grades, now it's more about enjoying it. Much more competence than when I was 16!

In reply to yh001:

For me (57), one of the really nice surprises about climbing has been that performance doesn't really drop of all that much with age, as long as you stay at it.
As some above have speculated, my biggest drop off has been in onsighting trad routes...I'm a right scaredy-cat these days.
As for other sorts of climbing, I'm much less powerful, but with similar or possibly better-than-ever finger strength. Better technique and smarter tactics seem to make up for at least some of the lack of power.
All in all, when I was younger i would never have guessed that, with 60 rushing up like a steam train, I'd still be enjoying climbing in much the same way as I did when I was 20.

In reply to yh001:
On paper I peaked in my mid-thirties but in terms of climbing ability I don't think I'm far off that now, in my mid fifties. I think for the current generation of older climbers the advantages of youth are completely offset by the advantages in training facilities and training knowledge we have today.

As an older climber the biggest limitation is logistics, or simply getting out to the crags. When I was younger there was no shortage of partners, people seemed to be going climbing somewhere most of the time. We'd go abroad several times a year, sometimes for four or more weeks at a time. These days everyone has either jobs, partners or families or all three so coordinating free time out at the crags is really hard.

Climbing indoors is much easier. It doesn't take so much time, there are always new routes to do and the spread of grades means you can climb with partners of widely different abilities. Indoors I seem to be climbing as well as when I was younger but who knows whether the today's grades are the same as they were in the nineties.

To climb the same grade outside now I think I'll have to be much better climber than I used to be because I need to be able to do the routes much faster. If I don't get up something on the first day of trying the chances are I won't get back on it again for a long time.

In reply to yh001:

Top trad grade climbed at 24, top sport grade climbed at 32 (I'm now 42. Eldest child nearly 10 which explains everything). I think I have every chance of climbing as hard again on bolts in the future, if and when I get more time to train and climb, but I can't see myself ever getting anywhere near E4 again. Far too aware of my own mortality and responsibilities to get back into mindset I had 20 years ago regarding bold climbing.

In reply to yh001:

Trad: 28/29, E6.
Alpine: 26 - 30, ED2.
Sport: Didn't start till early 50's living in France, 7b/c

Now 60

Trad: E4/5.
Alpine: ED2.
Sport: 7a/b

In reply to Goucho:

Impressive. What a wonderful list of 'favourite climbs' you have too.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Yes, I've been very fortunate to have the time, opportunity and great partners along the way

In reply to yh001:


Remember my 'peak' moment clearly.
On 15th June, 2002.
I was 26.

Just one day, felt like I was finally climbing to my potential, moving as I should, in the right mental zone.
Never found it again. Sad, really - no good reason for it.