UKC

Evening all, hope everyone is well.

As anyone who's been to Windmore End will know (especially without a guidebook) it's easy to get a little confused with the routes.

I'm getting the feeling the routes Big Sur (f7A+) and No match for climb id:587553 might be the same.

If Richard or Dan happen to see this (or someone can pass it on) is there any chance we can try figure something out. Both seem to fit in a very narrow band of rock and I feel they more or less must take the same line. 

I've asked Dan and Rich to see if they are in fact the same line 👍

I've spoken to Dan and he thinks they are the same line as its the only possible line between the existing ones, you can probably merge any log book ticks and then delete Rich's route.

If you look at feinds photo of him on Rock and a Hard Place you can see the obvious flake to his left which both routes share:

What is a 'gunny' move? Not that I'm going to go and find out .....

Dan speak for "you have to pull a little bit"

The grade suggests otherwise!

Hey Pete, I hope you are keeping well! Thanks as always for your help.

It's interesting the grades Dan and Rich came up with in isolation of one another, especially as they both evidentially have a lot of experience with new routes, development and grading.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong or anything or either is more right, it's just interesting that there's no bias, input, suggestion or influence from anyone prior. 

I suppose that top end 6b is just about compatible with 7A+, particularly if the 7A+ were given to match the, er, idiosyncrasy of Windmore End grading, while the E5 6b were given to match grading more typical of the wider region.

Yeah, as it's primarily a trad crag I suppose that's why Rich gave it a trad grade rather than the boulder grade but being both the same overall,

Dan climbed Rebel Rebel, Big Sur and Big Trouble in 2015 on his way back from route setting in Durham.

I guess it's interestingly they both more or less came to the same conclusion then. Credit to them both I think, not just for climbing it either. 

Having had a little play on it earlier (before I got truely wet through and rained off) I can vouch for the "gunny" move, though it's a nice sequence on good rock.