Logbook: Adding A 'Project Session' Option?

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 Little Rascal 18 Mar 2023

Is there any chance you could add a UKC Logbook catagory for a 'working' or 'project session' to the style of ascents for bouldering and redpointing routes please?

I like to log everything I've done on a day out and use my logbook as a personal diary including notes on progress, beta etc. However if that means working on a project it doesn't involve a completed route but isn't really a DNF either. 

So far I've been logging working and/or attempts as DNFs but it kind of messes up the stats picture overall especially on multi-session projects.

I've no problem logging failures (lots of them!) but it would be really nice if there was a way of logging sessions that sits between a 'fail' but short of a 'tick'?



 mrphilipoldham 18 Mar 2023
In reply to Little Rascal:

But it is a DNF! 

OP Little Rascal 18 Mar 2023
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Yes, it is. But sometimes it's not even an attempt ie when you're working sequences with no attempt at a flash or a redpoint and no real expectation of a full ascent in that session.

FWIW Ive spent 20 odd years trying to onsight everything (nearly all trad) and so logging a failed flash attempt as DNF seems pretty fair/accurate when I've attempted to do a route in that style.

But in the last few years I've got more serious about projecting boulders and sport routes very much beyond my onsight ability and it feels to me like a more representative category for working sessions on hard projects would be useful - for my personal logbook anyway.

Post edited at 23:37
 James Oswald 19 Mar 2023
In reply to Little Rascal:

I see your point and think it's a good idea.

In reply to James Oswald:

> I see your point and think it's a good idea.

I think you're on the wrong forum. This is not the place to agree with a reasonable suggestion! 

 kwoods 19 Mar 2023
In reply to Little Rascal:

I used to use the activity diary but everything was so concealed (and its just a big block of text) that it wasn't very useful and I stopped. A private project option to brain-dump progress, sequences, conditions etc would be great.

OP Little Rascal 19 Mar 2023
In reply to kwoods:

I haven't really looked seriously at the activity diary to be honest. The obvious downside that stands out to me is that entries are not linked to any specific route.

By using the logbook you can at least see all the entries/attempts/sessions on the route page.

Post edited at 11:49
 JLS 19 Mar 2023
In reply to Little Rascal:

DNF and dog doesn’t even grate against my OCD all that much. You must have it real bad.

In my more extreme moments I have found myself pining for a STC descriptor for those times you stick clip up a route, maybe occasionally touching the rock as you go… full of self-belief that maybe you’ll manage some links, some time.  

OP Little Rascal 19 Mar 2023
In reply to JLS:

Ha ha, yup!

To be honest I don't care that much. It just seems like a bit of a gap in the UKC set up where the language doesn't quite fit the style of climbing in this case.

Again: I was always THE most binary 'onsight or you're a DNF duffer' mentality but have come to appreciate a more process orientated mindset for hard climbing and projecting. Going home psyched after making progress or links and then writing up as a DNF leaves me just a tiny bit sad :/

Post edited at 13:16
OP Little Rascal 19 Mar 2023
In reply to Little Rascal:

The stats page is worth thinking about from this perspective:

If I commit myself to a limit project at the next grade up and spend ten sessions on it and then finally send, the stats then show that I've 'failed' on 10 boulders at the grade and suceeded on one. That just doesn't really reflect what I've been doing.

But I do want a record of my climbing days and it would be nice if there was a method of logging my climbing in a way that is a bit more nuanced than succeed or fail.

Post edited at 13:23
 mrphilipoldham 21 Mar 2023
In reply to Little Rascal:

No I was being deliberately obtuse, tongue in cheek and completely agree and think there is room for a ‘project session’ option. It’s not something I’d make much use of as like you I’m very much an onsighter, and don’t really project harder stuff. That said, now I’m etching further up the bouldering grades I can see how it’d be useful to log time spent on the rock. Currently as I don’t do DNFs on boulder problems I always log something so I know I’ve been out at least, which isn’t a problem as there’s always a warm up/down. It does make it look like I haven’t tried that hard though! 

 kwoods 21 Mar 2023
In reply to JLS:

Sometimes I think a sport route has a lot of folk logging it until I click in and find a list of your name!

 duchessofmalfi 21 Mar 2023
In reply to Little Rascal:

I'd quite like this.  I've stopped logging routes I'm working simply because I don't like the trail of DNFs. 

I'd make a suggestion that it would be nice to have one "route working" record per route where I could keep records rather than a proliferation of "worked -DNF" for every visit. 

I'd also like to be able to turn this into "worked - climbed" and keep the same record (but promote it to [red|head]-pointed.  Silly request really but I'd like to be able to record working without buggering up my log book.

I realise I could edit the record but I'm too lazy to remember the dates!

 JLS 21 Mar 2023
In reply to kwoods:

You can't step in the same river twice. I’m a different person each time.  

OP Little Rascal 22 Mar 2023

So how do we get this idea in front of the logbook developers?

In reply to Little Rascal:

While I'd quite like to log working progress we should avoid this by having a singular "working record" or have "worked" records not appear in the ascents list for routes otherwise they can end up looking a bit like this:

DA 4 Oct, 2018LeadFinally did the full link

DA 3 Oct, 2018LeadLead P1, fell off P2 link - do I go back for more?

DA 27 Sep, 2018Lead dnf8.20am start. Was still too warm, was in the sun by 9am

DA 26 Sep, 2018Lead dogLed pitch 2. Warm!

DA 19 Sep, 2018Lead dnfWorked top pitch

DA 12 Sep, 2018Lead dnfbetter effort

DA 9 Sep, 2018Lead dnfAlmost got a sequence. Hard.

Post edited at 21:46
In reply to duchessofmalfi:

Yeah interesting idea. When I look at my own stats there is a substantial amount of red on my working grade, even if the same route has had 4 dogging sessions that converted to a send.

I have seen people work around this by editing the same log (with notes and dates) and changing it to a send if they finally get it.

Not having a projecting catagory also messes up the overall stats for a particular route or problem.

If you look at something popular but that is often projected like Gorilla Warfare (f7A) and look through the public logbooks you can see lots of people logging sessions as DNFs. So it hasn't really had 1600 odd 'ascents' and the Style of Ascents graphic will be affected too.

It would be nice if there was a catagory and a separate colour (Amber?) for project sessions in the stats and graphs?

In reply to Little Rascal:

I think it would be good if you could hide individual entries on the logbooks. 

Keeping logbooks public is such a useful feature on UKC, but if people are adding all their project/dogging sessions it does tend to clutter them up a bit. 

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