UKC

Missing stars - Scottish Winter

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I was just looking at The Message (IV 6) and Savage Slit (Winter) (V 6) on UKC and I noticed they had no stars. On the Rockfax app, same thing, no stars for any of the climbs on those buttresses. But in my SMC guidebook, there are plenty of stars thereabouts, including 3 and 4 respectively for the climbs I mentioned.

 Michael Gordon 05 Nov 2021
In reply to Suncream:

Subtract a star from each and seems fair.

 chris_r 06 Nov 2021
In reply to Suncream:

The app is clearly weather dependent. The stars only appear when the routes are in condition. 

In reply to Suncream:

Giving this a bump in case it got missed

 mutt 23 Nov 2021
In reply to Suncream:

you can't just copy the content of the SMC guidebook  into Rockfax (as that is intellectual property theft). Once you've climbed the route then put your grade recommendation into the app or on here.  

In reply to mutt:

> you can't just copy the content of the SMC guidebook  into Rockfax (as that is intellectual property theft). Once you've climbed the route then put your grade recommendation into the app or on here.  

The SMC route data is included on Rockfax as part of a commercial agreement we have with them to provide their digital content. There are no intellectual property problems here - we publish their data, they get a commission. We are very happy with this set up and I am pretty sure they are as well.

There should be stars so this is probably just a mistake in the data conversion. 

We will look into it.

Alan

Post edited at 09:26
 Swampi 23 Nov 2021
In reply to mutt:

Genuine question. Would the name, grade and stars of a route be the intellectual property of the SMC? Or would that technically belong to the first ascensionists? Route descriptions would be the IP of the SMC, if they came from the guidebook authors I guess?

In reply to Swampi:

> Genuine question. Would the name, grade and stars of a route be the intellectual property of the SMC? Or would that technically belong to the first ascensionists? Route descriptions would be the IP of the SMC, if they came from the guidebook authors I guess?

No-one has ever really answered that question. There were attempts to address it back in 2001 but there was no definitive ruling.

What did come out of that debate is that climbing is better served by an open, informal and less restrictive approach to route data ownership and guidebooks in this country have become much better for that.

This is certainly our approach at UKC/Rockfax. Whilst we put a © on our route descriptions in UKC Logbook, we make no claim to any route name, star rating, FA information, or even the general description (except perhaps the actual wording). Even so most of the copyright concerns we have are mass database copying rather than someone reproducing a route description they got from one of our authors. In fact, we actively encourage other guidebook writers to use the fantastic resource that UKC Logbook has become in order to improve their own information.

Alan

 Sean Kelly 23 Nov 2021
In reply to Suncream:

It's a strange coincidence but I was checking out the stars awarded to climb in the N Corries last night. I wondered why Savage Slit (489 ticks) and Fallout Corner (169) got hardly any stars but are on a lot of wishlists. In fact very few 3's and no 4's in Nisbett's selective guide.

Post edited at 11:16
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> ... In fact, we actively encourage other guidebook writers to use the fantastic resource that UKC Logbook has become in order to improve their own information.

Just to to confirm this, the UKC logbook system was very useful in producing the recent Culm and Baggy guide and continues to be so as I try to keep on top of post publication developments, errors and omissions. Alan was supportive of this from the start of work on the guide .


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