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Moderating dilemma Wyndcliffe Quarry

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 bpmclimb 19 Nov 2022

Someone has added the Direct Start as a separate route to Finishing Touch (original line with direct start) (6b) at Wyndcliff Quarry. It's complicated because there have been over 800 logbook entries, of which pretty much all the earlier ascents were via the direct start (anything else was cheating), until more recent guidebooks, which started calling the "cheat" line the main line, and mentioning the Direct as the variation. I'd like to ok the addition, and have two separate routes, but I've no idea how best to do it, to manage all the logbook entries.

Advice appreciated - thanks!

 Powley 19 Nov 2022
In reply to bpmclimb:

If it was me I'd add the climb and if folks want to migrate their log over for the stats then they've got the option to - pretty hands off, but that's a lot of entries!

Post edited at 22:53
In reply to bpmclimb:

It can be a problem when people add variations that are in fact the normal way of doing things. Usually the solution is to just delete the variation and incoporate the ticks in the original.

In this case though I don't think that is the answer. I very much doubt that the majority of the existing ticks on Finishing Touch (original line with direct start) (6b) are for the direct version. Firstly, that isn't supported by the grade votes - they favour 6b which is the indirect version; secondly, in my experience, people don't choose gnarly 6c directs when there is an easier 6b option close by; thirdly, it isn't really supported by the comments.

I would in fact just move the Direct to the correct place and let people migrate their ticks if they choose to.

Alan

1
OP bpmclimb 21 Nov 2022
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> I very much doubt that the majority of the existing ticks on Finishing Touch (original line with direct start) (6b) are for the direct version.

You may be right - it's very hard to tell for sure. For what it's worth, I've climbed the route many times over many years (on checking my logbook, 20 ascents), and discussed the moves with several other climbers, and it's always been the main line (now referred to as the Direct) which we were doing/talking about. For a long time it was graded 6b, but we all just got to know it as a bit of a sandbag, and unbalanced - a generally easier route with a boulder problem start. I don't think an easier indirect version pinged our radars at all. I sort of accepted it as a really tough 6b, but with hindsight wouldn't argue with 6c.

> I would in fact just move the Direct to the correct place and let people migrate their ticks if they choose to.

Probably the simplest solution. I'll definitely be moving all my ticks across, though

In reply to bpmclimb:

I never found the indirect start very logical (felt a bit like cheating as you say). Was odd in the most recent Wye Valley sport which gave it 6a+, or 6b+ for the direct if I recall? Then again, as the guidebook has two lines, it sort of makes sense to have two corresponding lines on UKC.

Having said that, not sure I'd give the proper start 6c, not least because I definitely couldn't climb 6c when I did it!!

 Oogachooga 24 Nov 2022
In reply to bpmclimb:

Hi Brian, if it was my choice, it would seem logical to add a new line for the 'cheat' version and be done with it (leave original log as is). The UKC line was logged way before this new guidebook decided to change things up, and is in a sense, it's own entity IMO.

As for the grade, yeah it's a sandbag but a good test piece for Wyndcliff

Take it easy anyway

1
OP bpmclimb 25 Nov 2022
In reply to bpmclimb:

Ok, I've had a closer look at the logbooks, and still think that many, if not all of the earlier ascents were of the harder line - it was the only legit line which "officially" existed until much more recently. On balance, probably the majority of logged ascents.

Whatever I do is going to result in many logbook entries being wrong, but I've made the version with 800+ logs the original and direct; and made the new entry the 6a+ indirect version.

One problem which persists is that I can't change the grade of 6b because that's whats in the Rfax database. Can we make it 6b+ at least, please?

Thanks


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