A recent thread highlighted some 'dummy' crags. These are crags that have been set up by users to hold routes, or groups of routes, with little or no location information and often from separate crags themselves.
We have looked at some of these and been told that they are used for research, crags with dodgy access, dangerous routes or for secretive purposes when people are developing crags. In one case at least the crag originator and moderator was unaware that the crag still existed.
In our opinion, these crags are bad for UKC Logbook system since they create bad and essentially private data. They are not useful to anyone except a small group who may be in the know. Additionally, the reasons for creating them don't stand up since there are plenty of properly listed crags with bad access or dangerous routes, research is useful if made public, and it if you want to keep a crag secret, then putting on UKC seems counterproductive.
The three crags highlighted so far are:
No match for crag id:27467
No match for crag id:20421
No match for crag id:27941
Our proposal is that we will delete these crags and routes on Friday 29 November. Any crag moderators wanting to move routes to properly listed crags please let us know in detail which routes, and where they need to be moved, and staff moderators can help sort this out.
If people are aware of any other such crags please let us know on this thread using the 'Insert crag link...' box below the reply box. We are also happy to deal with discussion on the proposal here as well.
Not sure what this one is about https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/testing-22486/#overview
Good plan. I suspect most of the stuff in No match for crag id:20421 is on known about crags now but I don't live in the area any more and don't know enough details to move the existing climbs across.
This one caught my eye a while back... Out west
> Not sure what this one is about https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/testing-22486/#overview
Ah yes, nice one. That is our testing crag for route styles, grades, etc..
> This one caught my eye a while back... Out west
One of Dogger Land's finest crags
This one near me seems a bit odd and isn't where it appears on the map: https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/black_cat-20654/#overview
It is still being developed and access might be a bit sensitive.
You won’t be the first person to drive into Mayne Close only to be disappointed to find a housing estate rather than a crag!🤣
It gets better! I see that Senor Ultimo has developed a new bouldering venue in Mayne Close! Now, (holds hands up) in my defence your honour, I done Black Cat but I didn’t have nuffink to do with The Mother Lode.
I’ll have a word with Ultimo!
Mwahahahahahaha, hahahahaha, so glad you found this Rich 😂😂😂😂
Please delete away 😂😂😂
> Please delete away 😂😂😂
Thanks. Just to be clearer, could you possibly reply and type the name of the crag to be deleted into the 'Insert crag link...' box so that it is here in the thread. That will help since I am not 100% sure which crag you are talking about following this discussion.
Whilst you are looking at this it might be worth thinking about how the lodging of "artificial" outdoor climbing structures is reflected in the crag directory.
I think that it's really valuable to have a good database of climbable bridges, outdoor artificial boulders etc. However it can be misleading to look at some areas and see 100 crags within 10 miles only to find most of them are vague descriptions of buildering on Edinburgh tenement buildings.
The Crack Den - Murrayfield Bridge appears quite legit whilst
Graham Brown House (GBH) appears to be less so.
> Graham Brown House (GBH) appears to be less so.
When T Graham Brown (of Brenva Face fame) died, he left his Edinburgh flat to Edinburgh University for student accommodation, preferably students belonging to the mountaineering club. This was eventually sold and the 'spiritual home of the EUMC' moved to Nicholson Street where it still provides accommodation for six students. So maybe it is also legit?
He’s talking about the Mother Lode which appears to be located in my back garden along with Black Cat.
You can delete Black Cat.
At least I checked it on Google Earth which saved a trip to Mayne Close!
Here's a list of some of the most dubious crags I've come across, which may or may not fit your criteria:
No match for crag id:25407
No match for crag id:16398
No match for crag id:26614
No match for crag id:27941
No match for crag id:27546
what's this ?
Can you also now remove 'dummy routes', eg new routes that have only had a top rope first ascent. https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/blaise_castle_gorge-45/three_wise_men-621956