UKC

Removing Dummy Crags

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A recent thread highlighted some 'dummy' crags. These are crags that have been set up by users to hold routes, or groups of routes, with little or no location information and often from separate crags themselves.

The thread -  https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rockfax/is_there_a_policy_for_cleaning_up_dummy_crags-740025

We have looked at some of these and been told that they are used for research, crags with dodgy access, dangerous routes or for secretive purposes when people are developing crags. In one case at least the crag originator and moderator was unaware that the crag still existed.

In our opinion, these crags are bad for UKC Logbook system since they create bad and essentially private data. They are not useful to anyone except a small group who may be in the know. Additionally, the reasons for creating them don't stand up since there are plenty of properly listed crags with bad access or dangerous routes, research is useful if made public, and it if you want to keep a crag secret, then putting on UKC seems counterproductive.

The three crags highlighted so far are:

No match for crag id:27467
No match for crag id:20421
No match for crag id:27941

Our proposal is that we will delete these crags and routes on Friday 29 November. Any crag moderators wanting to move routes to properly listed crags please let us know in detail which routes, and where they need to be moved, and staff moderators can help sort this out.

If people are aware of any other such crags please let us know on this thread using the 'Insert crag link...' box below the reply box. We are also happy to deal with discussion on the proposal here as well.

Thanks

Alan

 arast 22 Oct 2021
 remus 22 Oct 2021
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Good plan. I suspect most of the stuff in No match for crag id:20421 is on known about crags now but I don't live in the area any more and don't know enough details to move the existing climbs across.

In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

This one caught my eye a while back...  Out west

Post edited at 09:32
In reply to arast:

Ah yes, nice one. That is our testing crag for route styles, grades, etc..

Now hidden.

Alan

Post edited at 09:34
 Lankyman 22 Oct 2021
In reply to Graham Briffett:

> This one caught my eye a while back...  Out west

One of Dogger Land's finest crags

 Rick51 22 Oct 2021
In reply to Lankyman:

Low spring tide access only?

 Rob 22 Oct 2021
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

This one near me seems a bit odd and isn't where it appears on the map: https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/black_cat-20654/#overview

 rhudson 22 Oct 2021
In reply to Rob:

Correct.

It is still being developed and access might be a bit sensitive. 

You won’t be the first person to drive into Mayne Close only to be disappointed to find a housing estate rather than a crag!🤣

It gets better! I see that Senor Ultimo has developed a new bouldering venue in Mayne Close! Now, (holds hands up) in my defence your honour, I done Black Cat but I didn’t have nuffink to do with The Mother Lode.

I’ll have a word with Ultimo!

 Señor Últi 22 Oct 2021
In reply to rhudson:

Mwahahahahahaha, hahahahaha, so glad you found this Rich 😂😂😂😂

Please delete away 😂😂😂

In reply to Señor Últi:

> Please delete away 😂😂😂

Thanks. Just to be clearer, could you possibly reply and type the name of the crag to be deleted into the 'Insert crag link...' box so that it is here in the thread. That will help since I am not 100% sure which crag you are talking about following this discussion.

Alan

 Brown 22 Oct 2021
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Whilst you are looking at this it might be worth thinking about how the lodging of "artificial" outdoor climbing structures is reflected in the crag directory.

I think that it's really valuable to have a good database of climbable bridges, outdoor artificial boulders etc. However it can be misleading to look at some areas and see 100 crags within 10 miles only to find most of them are vague descriptions of buildering on Edinburgh tenement buildings.

For example

The Crack Den - Murrayfield Bridge appears quite legit whilst

Graham Brown House (GBH) appears to be less so.

 jon 22 Oct 2021
In reply to Brown:

> Graham Brown House (GBH) appears to be less so.

When T Graham Brown (of Brenva Face fame) died, he left his Edinburgh flat to Edinburgh University for student accommodation, preferably students belonging to the mountaineering club. This was eventually sold and the 'spiritual home of the EUMC' moved to Nicholson Street where it still provides accommodation for six students. So maybe it is also legit?

 rhudson 22 Oct 2021
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

He’s talking about the Mother Lode which appears to be located in my back garden along with Black Cat. 
You can delete Black Cat.

 Rob 23 Oct 2021
In reply to rhudson:

At least I checked it on Google Earth which saved a trip to Mayne Close!

 dannyboy83 Global Crag Moderator  UKC Supporter 27 Oct 2021
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Hi Alan,

Here's a list of some of the most dubious crags I've come across, which may or may not fit your criteria:

No match for crag id:25407

No match for crag id:16398

Secret Spot

Southampton Common

No match for crag id:26614

Fintainblaue

Moensflåget

Area 51

Nuotokallio

Moose Valley

Hidden Valley

Myllis

Narnia Wall

Tanssikallio

Wave Break

Black Forest

Artjärvi

Lehmanniitunkallio

halkeamaX

No match for crag id:27941

The Sublime Chefs Boulder

No match for crag id:27546

Quarry House

Ardon

Apple Crumble Cave

Crag K

Crag I

 lithos 06 Nov 2021
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

what's this ?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/almscliffe_crag-28829/

Post edited at 12:51
 The Pylon King 20 Nov 2021
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Can you also now remove 'dummy routes', eg new routes that have only had a top rope first ascent. https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/blaise_castle_gorge-45/three_wise_men-621956


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