UKC

Rockfax App - Beta Testers Required

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The Rockfax App is in the final stages of preparation and we are looking for beta testers to use the app on their iPhones.

System Requirements
iPhone 4s or newer. Preferably a 5 since it is a bit slow on the 4s.
iOS 8 or higher.

If you would like to help then please send an email to app [at] rockfax.com . We need the email address associated with your Apple id. You will then be sent and email explaining how to install the beta version through the free app TestFlight.

The Rockfax app itself is a free download with plenty of free content plus in-app purchases (crags and bundles of crags). During the beta-testing costs will be displayed but you won't be charged any real money. The data will last as long as the beta version is live for which will be a few weeks so you won't be able to keep the app data after the beta trial window has expired.

Feedback
At this stage we are not looking for feature requests or minor data comments. Major data problems like missing topos and maps are welcome but we mainly just want people to use it as much as possible and generate crash reports if there are any. The crash reporting is managed by the beta version itself so you don't need to do anything apart from restart the app for us to get a report.

Some Features
- You can link it to your UKC Logbook and your ticks will be imported plus you will be able to add new ticks.

- The Android version is in development but we reckon it will take a few months before it is ready.

- The App incorporates the old UKC Top Photos app

- The App also includes all the listings from the UKC Directory of Crags, Climbing Walls, Shops, etc. thus also making the old UKC Finder app redundant.

We currently have data available for the following areas:
Ariege
Dolomites
Dorset (Sport and trad, not bouldering yet)
Eastern Grit
Gower Sport Climbing
Lofoten
Northern Limestone
North Wales Climbs
Peak Limestone
Pembroke
Siurana
West Country Climbs

We are working on data for all the Rockfax book titles.

Alan
Post edited at 18:22
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator  UKC Supporter 01 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Looks superb - great effort by all involved getting it this far,


Chris
Lo-Res images in North Wales

Bit of a problem with some of the exporting of the images in North Wales. I'll have to export them again and re-upload them to the app store:

All of Tremadog
The Moelwyns
Betwys Area
some of Gogarth

I'll post here again when it's done.
 James Rushforth Global Crag Moderator 01 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

As Chris says looks superb. A great effort from everyone involved.
iPhone 5 / 5c Crash When Tapping Blue Arrows on App Topo View

It seems that tapping these buttons (located at the top of the route drawer) will cause these devices to crash every time.

Swiping left and right on the route drawer area achieves the same thing as these buttons (takes you to adjacent topos), and can be used as a workaround.
 JR 02 Sep 2015
In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:

FYI - I'm not able to replicate this with a 5s.
In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:

Just to note, this crash is also occurring on iPad 2 mini.
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
I've had reports of some people not getting the invites. If anyone has sent an email asking to be a tester, but not received an invite, please send your email again and indicate it's your second try.

We don't respond to the beta request emails - we just add you into the testing system and that should trigger an automated invitation email from Apple, but it seems that may sometimes fail.
Post edited at 19:16
In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:

> We don't respond to the beta request emails - we just add you into the testing system and that should trigger an automated invitation email from Apple, but it seems that may sometimes fail.

This could also be because the person's Apple id is not the same as the email that they are sending the email from, so include your Apple ID email to be sure.

Alan
In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:

There's a bit of a bad bug in the beta version where adding a route to your logbook will not update the state of the 'add to logbook' tick button. This only occurs when looking at a topo - it works correctly when adding a route to your logbook from the 'routes' tab in the initial view.

This will work:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/65604568/rockfax%20app/Pasted_Image_03_09_15_15_04.jpg

This works but gives no indication it has worked:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/65604568/rockfax%20app/Pasted_Image_03_09_15_15_12.jpg
In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:
I get this crash with a 5c. Swiping works, tapping blue arrows crashes app.
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Re-logging a route that is already in the logbook crashes the app. (I'm guessing you should be able to do this by selecting the route and tapping the + button in the top left corner where the tick button is on unlogged routes.

Previously added logs (from UKC) all respond well, and new logs via the app work. Just can't log a route you've already logged on the app.
In reply to jayjackson:

Cheers Jay. This issue only affects certain hardware, and should be fixed in the next release.
In reply to jayjackson:

> Re-logging a route that is already in the logbook crashes the app. (I'm guessing you should be able to do this by selecting the route and tapping the + button in the top left corner where the tick button is on unlogged routes.

Thanks again Jay, I've now fixed that code for the next release.

In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:

> Lo-Res images in North Wales

> Bit of a problem with some of the exporting of the images in North Wales. I'll have to export them again and re-upload them to the app store:



> I'll post here again when it's done.

This is now done, so all bundles should have high-res images in them. If you've already installed one of these bad bundles, you can uninstall it in 'Downloads' by tapping the 'x' button. Then download it again and you should have the new data.
 Mike-W-99 04 Sep 2015
In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:

The topo for the east face of the Dent d'Orlu seems to show two sets of grades for Zinkeria.
Not a big issue but it does look a bit weird.
In reply to Mike-W-99:

> The topo for the east face of the Dent d'Orlu seems to show two sets of grades for Zinkeria.

> Not a big issue but it does look a bit weird.

Something funny with both the Southeast Face and the East face. I think those uploads have gone a bit wonky.

Alan
 alastairbegley 06 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Was fairly skeptical about using a phone rather than a guidebook, but spent this weekend on Dartmoor and was very impressed.

For evening route planning/reading I was split between the app and the book, but at the crag I found the app excellent, easy to use with clear pictures and topos which were easy to navigate between.

Overall very impressed, and will certainly be using it once it is out. Two requests, please can you add an option to open the crag in google maps rather than Apple maps. Secondly, you can see you own logbook entries for a route, is it possible to view the comments other people have left?
In reply to alastairbegley:

Glad you like the App and thanks for the positive comments.

> Two requests, please can you add an option to open the crag in google maps rather than Apple maps.

I think this is possible since I think you can allow people to choose their chosen sat nav. Will look into it.

> Secondly, you can see you own logbook entries for a route, is it possible to view the comments other people have left?

You can already do this. Click on the 'i' on a route listing and this opens a second level where just a single route listing is displayed. Currently you can see photos and comments here but eventually we will be adding votes, voting and other features.

Alan

Crag Order Listing

We have been having some discussion about the order which the crags are listed in. Currently they are listed in guidebook order which tends also to be a rough geographical order. This favours those who don't know what crags are called but are in an area and want to know what the other crags are around them, and those who are very familiar with the guidebooks.

Alphabetical order would favour those who are familiar with crag names and just want to go straight to a certain crag in the long list.

Ultimately we will provide an option to offer both alphabetical and crags in order of how close they are tho you at any time, but until then we need to decide what the best listing option is.

Of course you can just use the search box to find crags by name but people don't tend to do this much.

Any thoughts?

Alan
 alastairbegley 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Where are those comments from? They don't appear to be from the UKC logbook entries as for the few routes I just looked at, there were very few comments and they were very old (or there were none) on routes which are regularly logged on ukc.
In reply to alastairbegley:

> Where are those comments from? They don't appear to be from the UKC logbook entries as for the few routes I just looked at, there were very few comments and they were very old (or there were none) on routes which are regularly logged on ukc.

Ah, sorry, yes those are from the Rockfax database. The UKC comments aren't appearing at the moment.

Our plan is to have what were formerly the comments on the Rockfax database as public route feedback comments, and have what were formerly UKC comments, as private personal ascent comments. Both sets of comments will be accessible from the UKC Logbook interface.

Alan
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator  UKC Supporter 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> Ah, sorry, yes those are from the Rockfax database. The UKC comments aren't appearing at the moment.

> Our plan is to have what were formerly the comments on the Rockfax database as public route feedback comments, and have what were formerly UKC comments, as private personal ascent comments. Both sets of comments will be accessible from the UKC Logbook interface.

> Alan

I get the impression that most folks who used to log comments on the RF databases now use the UKC one - most of the stuff on RF is very dated. As an example the last comment on Ellis's Eliminate is five years old on RF - UKC has dozens (hundreds?) of comments over the same period,

Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:

> I get the impression that most folks who used to log comments on the RF databases now use the UKC one - most of the stuff on RF is very dated. As an example the last comment on Ellis's Eliminate is five years old on RF - UKC has dozens (hundreds?) of comments over the same period,

True but we need to establish a clear demarcation between public feedback comments and personal ascent comments. The RF database has always been for the former hence it seems logical to keep it at that. This will mean that some comments get lost but we anticipate a lot more comments being made once the App is up and running anyway, so things should work out better in the long run.

Alan
 alastairbegley 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Could there at least be a link to the ukc logbook from the route page, so the full logs can be viewed?
In reply to alastairbegley:

> Could there at least be a link to the ukc logbook from the route page, so the full logs can be viewed?

Yes, I think we intended to do that at some stage.

I should point out that we may not make many changes to the App before releasing since that could reset the beta testing which we don't want to do. So whilst we welcome feature and improvement suggestions, don't be disappointed if they don't appear in this first release. There will be many updates coming over the next 12 months.

Alan
 JR 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

In general, it's brill and has done a good job of simplifying what is an extensive amount of data!

A couple of comments from using it over the last couple of days. These are general usability things rather than crash issues, as so far only had one (which just occurred randomly). Some of these are quite hypercritical - take that as a signal that you've done a great job overall!

• The whole app design is "flat" (which I like!) but the "Downloads, "My Crags" "Logbook" and "Wishlist" top menu tabs have drop shadow which looks a bit inconsistent.

• The same tabs as above have disappeared twice whilst using the app leaving a whitespace. App close and restart needed for them to re-appear.

• On the downloads tab the individual crag description areas feel big to scroll through when there are a lot of crags under that area, for example Dolomites. I suspect a smaller summary (smaller thumbnail, name, price) which you can tap to expand might be a neater way. I appreciate you can use the search function (but I never do... I like scrolling)

• Occasionally I had to authorise my iTunes account a number of times per download (using touch ID), but that seems to have settled. Possibly an issue this end.
In reply to John Roberts (JR):

Hi John, thanks very much for your feedback. Stephen is away for the next few days but I'll do my best.

> In general, it's brill and has done a good job of simplifying what is an extensive amount of data!

Thanks!

> • The whole app design is "flat" (which I like!) but the "Downloads, "My Crags" "Logbook" and "Wishlist" top menu tabs have drop shadow which looks a bit inconsistent.

Noted

> • The same tabs as above have disappeared twice whilst using the app leaving a whitespace. App close and restart needed for them to re-appear.

Curious. Has anyone else seen this? Not something we have experienced before .

> • On the downloads tab the individual crag description areas feel big to scroll through when there are a lot of crags under that area, for example Dolomites. I suspect a smaller summary (smaller thumbnail, name, price) which you can tap to expand might be a neater way. I appreciate you can use the search function (but I never do... I like scrolling)

Yes I can see that. Possibly something to change in future especially since we will be adding quite a lot more data. Do you have any thoughts on Alphabetical verses Geographical crag listings (for this version), as per my post above?

> • Occasionally I had to authorise my iTunes account a number of times per download (using touch ID), but that seems to have settled. Possibly an issue this end.

This is a known bug I think with Testflight. I have had to do this too. The word on the tech forums is that it goes away when the App is out of testing.

Alan


 eddbeale 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

>> • The same tabs as above have disappeared twice whilst using the app leaving a whitespace. App close and restart needed for them to re-appear.

> Curious. Has anyone else seen this? Not something we have experienced before .

Yes, I've seen this - when in My Crags, I've had the Downloads and My Crags tabs at the top not come back, so I haven't been able to get back to Downloads. Had kill the app from the app switcher, to force it to restart, to get them back.
 alastairbegley 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

oh, another feature I thought would be good while using it. nearby crags, list the nearest crags from your current, location, rather than having to find the crag you are at from a list (was OK due to not having many crags installed, but coudl see it might be a pain when you have installed lots of crags)
In reply to alastairbegley:

> oh, another feature I thought would be good while using it. nearby crags, list the nearest crags from your current, location, rather than having to find the crag you are at from a list (was OK due to not having many crags installed, but coudl see it might be a pain when you have installed lots of crags)

Yes, this is definitely on the features to add list - the ability to sort crags alphabetically or geographically in relation to where you are (most likely linked to Google or a navigation app with a 'Take me there' button).

Alan
 JR 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> Yes I can see that. Possibly something to change in future especially since we will be adding quite a lot more data. Do you have any thoughts on Alphabetical verses Geographical crag listings (for this version), as per my post above?

I think alphabetical works best personally. Looks like you're devving the ability to toggle between sorting lists anyway, but I'd quite like to see some filters on there if possible too... (the way you have done the filtering on the routes is really nicely done btw)

• Rock type
• Trad/sport
• Multi/single
• no of routes

Also... which feels like a biggie, is that I haven't noticed any access info. If people are going to use this app solely without the guide, then this could create some pretty huge issues. A much bigger task I know, but a collaboration with the BMC to get the RAD data onto the app, or at least a link to their crag listing in their app, would be very welcomed. Just an icon showing access issues are present which links through/opens the BMC RAD app would be enough.

Finally, a really minor one. The weather symbol you have on each crag - when I looked initially the cloud icon confused me a bit (most places I looked were cloudy at the time) and I initially thought it was a "your guidebook data is in the cloud, click here to download it" sort of thing. Is that weather data "live right now". Not sure it's something I would ever use as a reference. I'd just go check the weather on a forecast I trusted... And I mainly pick my climbing locations weather first.
Post edited at 15:43
In reply to John Roberts (JR):

> Also... which feels like a biggie, is that I haven't noticed any access info. If people are going to use this app solely without the guide, then this could create some pretty huge issues. A much bigger task I know, but a collaboration with the BMC to get the RAD data onto the app, or at least a link to their crag listing in their app, would be very welcomed. Just an icon showing access issues are present which links through/opens the BMC RAD app would be enough.

Not a biggie at all, and essential. We have already made the major step of connecting with the BMC to sync their RAD data with the UKC logbook crag entries. These have mostly been done although there are understandably a few imperfect matches which need resolving. The new version of UKC logbook will feature the RAD entries prominently with data being piped in direct from RAD, not just a link to the listings as the old version did.

The RAD entries also have data ranges which means we will be able to turn restrictions on and off as required. At present the ability to pinpoint it to a route, or set of routes, isn't there but this should be possible.

Currently this version has access information direct from the Rockfax guide but I suspect by the time we get round to bird restriction season next year, we will have made some improvements in this respect.

> Finally, a really minor one. The weather symbol you have on each crag - when I looked initially the cloud icon confused me a bit (most places I looked were cloudy at the time) and I initially thought it was a "your guidebook data is in the cloud, click here to download it" sort of thing. Is that weather data "live right now". Not sure it's something I would ever use as a reference. I'd just go check the weather on a forecast I trusted... And I mainly pick my climbing locations weather first.

That hadn't occurred to me. The weather is actually quite a decent forecast that you can see in much more detail if you scroll down a crag page. It also has historical days on which are important for climbers but curiously difficult to get on many weather services.

Alan
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator  UKC Supporter 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

>
> Do you have any thoughts on Alphabetical verses Geographical crag listings (for this version), as per my post above?

I have mulled on this quite a lot today but haven't come up with definitive answer. I assume the whole App isn't like a book so the normal left > right ordering of crags isn't needed. An alphabetical list and a map with "you are here" and "crags near" you would appear logical.


Chris
 JR 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> Not a biggie at all, and essential. We have already made the major step of connecting with the BMC to sync their RAD data with the UKC logbook crag entries. These have mostly been done although there are understandably a few imperfect matches which need resolving. The new version of UKC logbook will feature the RAD entries prominently with data being piped in direct from RAD, not just a link to the listings as the old version did.

> The RAD entries also have data ranges which means we will be able to turn restrictions on and off as required. At present the ability to pinpoint it to a route, or set of routes, isn't there but this should be possible.

> Currently this version has access information direct from the Rockfax guide but I suspect by the time we get round to bird restriction season next year, we will have made some improvements in this respect.

Awesome!

> That hadn't occurred to me. The weather is actually quite a decent forecast that you can see in much more detail if you scroll down a crag page. It also has historical days on which are important for climbers but curiously difficult to get on many weather services.

That's good, have to say I've barely ever used the UKC weather data, I pretty much only ever use: http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts
We have submitted another build for beta-tester review. This will mean that the original version will stop working sometime over the next few days and there is likely to be a gap before the new version is available.

This also means that we aren't adding beta testers to the current version but we are still accepting people who want to test it, you just won't be added for a few days until the new version gets through the Apple process.

Thanks

Alan
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator  UKC Supporter 07 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

The whole thing is looking very slick.

One slight issue I have had on a big crag (like Stanage) having looked at say a dozen topos is there an easy way to get back to the start page without going back through all the previous topos with the back button?


Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:

Hi Chris,

Swipe from the left hand edge of the screen to go back instead of the arrow key.

Cheers, Paul.
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator  UKC Supporter 08 Sep 2015
In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

> Hi Chris,

> Swipe from the left hand edge of the screen to go back instead of the arrow key.

> Cheers, Paul.

Cheers, that's certainly faster. I was wondering if I had missed some subtle short-cut,


Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:

The left edge swipe is a common Apple gesture to go back, although tbh I've never noticed it before it was pointed out to me.

It's used a lot in the Settings pages.
 eddbeale 08 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I've got the new Beta version installed - all working pretty well so far

Some minor niggles on trying to get back the previously-purchased crags tho:

If I try to do the same purchases as before, it tells me I have already purchased them and if I want to get them again for Free - that seems to work fine, they download.

However, then on my other iPhone, I tried doing 'Restore Purchases' from the Accounts screen, to see if I could get them more quickly. This seem to work (i.e. the previous purchases now have a Download icon rather than a price), but then clicking on that Download icon, it seems to start downloading and then get stuck often, and then randomly pops up asking for my Apple ID's password several times. This may be because I am downloading over 3G on that phone, but still, it is quite annoying.

Also, if I queue-up several of these downloads on that phone, then the UI for each new one I select seems to get confused and redisplays the download icon, rather than the download-progress icon. If I tap it repeatedly, it finally asks me if I want to cancel the download, saying yes and trying again seems to fix it, and the download-progress icon is displayed.

None of this is all that bad, but for someone who has a bunch of purchases and wants to get them all onto a new device, it is going to get a bit annoying. I think a Download All button somewhere would be really useful!
In reply to eddbeale:

I suspect a lot of this is connected to the fact that this is a beta test version and not the public version. In this case the beta version downloads a complete new App, but when it is public I think the App just updates and your purchases are not changed.

Alan
 eddbeale 08 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> I suspect a lot of this is connected to the fact that this is a beta test version and not the public version. In this case the beta version downloads a complete new App, but when it is public I think the App just updates and your purchases are not changed.

I think you're probably right for my specific case right now, but I imagine the same thing would happen for someone who had uninstalled the app and then chosen to reinstall it again later or for someone was moving onto a new iPhone. Perhaps those are relatively rare occurrences, so not so important...

In reply to eddbeale:
> I think you're probably right for my specific case right now, but I imagine the same thing would happen for someone who had uninstalled the app and then chosen to reinstall it again later or for someone was moving onto a new iPhone. Perhaps those are relatively rare occurrences, so not so important...

In the short to medium term, we will be changing the way you can get the crags and maintaining a record with your account that will enable a restore option. This is essential for the Android version and also essential to allow us to sell full book packages. It is also required for those who want to run the App on their Android phone and iPad (ie. cross platform).

Alan
Post edited at 15:07
In reply to Mike-W-99:

> The topo for the east face of the Dent d'Orlu seems to show two sets of grades for Zinkeria.

> Not a big issue but it does look a bit weird.

Thanks for that, it's now fixed in the dev builds.
In reply to alastairbegley:
> Overall very impressed, and will certainly be using it once it is out. Two requests, please can you add an option to open the crag in google maps rather than Apple maps.

I use Google maps too, so this is on the todo list. Unfortunately, to do it right is not as simple as you'd first expect, so I've put it on the backburner for the moment, but it will be added for sure.

In the meantime, there's a button in there that copies the coordinates to the pasteboard, which you can then use to search in google maps.
Post edited at 13:32
In reply to John Roberts (JR):

> In general, it's brill and has done a good job of simplifying what is an extensive amount of data!

Thanks =]

> A couple of comments from using it over the last couple of days. These are general usability things rather than crash issues, as so far only had one (which just occurred randomly). Some of these are quite hypercritical - take that as a signal that you've done a great job overall!

> • The whole app design is "flat" (which I like!) but the "Downloads, "My Crags" "Logbook" and "Wishlist" top menu tabs have drop shadow which looks a bit inconsistent.

Yeah, I ummed and ahhed a bit about this one, but it just looks 'wrong' without shadows there somehow. I see what you're saying though, and I've now reduced their opacity as far as I think I can take it in the dev build.

> • The same tabs as above have disappeared twice whilst using the app leaving a whitespace. App close and restart needed for them to re-appear.

This is interesting, as I've never had this happen. Can you give me any more detail on the circumstances? Was it when you brought the app out of the background perhaps? If it happens again can you try typing something that won't return a match into the search box and see if that forces it to appear (which it should).

> • On the downloads tab the individual crag description areas feel big to scroll through when there are a lot of crags under that area, for example Dolomites. I suspect a smaller summary (smaller thumbnail, name, price) which you can tap to expand might be a neater way. I appreciate you can use the search function (but I never do... I like scrolling)

I see what you're saying here, but feel it's useful information to have on that first level (even though some is duplicated one level further if you tap the bundle cell). Making these initial cells expandable doesn't really work because we already have expandable areas in that list, so double-expansion would be a bit confusing.

> • Occasionally I had to authorise my iTunes account a number of times per download (using touch ID), but that seems to have settled. Possibly an issue this end.

As Alan said, this is something to do with the app store sandbox and will not happen in production (so I'm told). It seems to happen more if you start a download, minimise the app, then come back to it later.

> However, then on my other iPhone, I tried doing 'Restore Purchases' from the Accounts screen, to see if I could get them more quickly. This seem to work (i.e. the previous purchases now have a Download icon rather than a price), but then clicking on that Download icon, it seems to start downloading and then get stuck often, and then randomly pops up asking for my Apple ID's password several times. This may be because I am downloading over 3G on that phone, but still, it is quite annoying.


This is apparently a bug in the app store sandbox. I agree, it's quite annoying.


> Also, if I queue-up several of these downloads on that phone, then the UI for each new one I select seems to get confused and redisplays the download icon, rather than the download-progress icon. If I tap it repeatedly, it finally asks me if I want to cancel the download, saying yes and trying again seems to fix it, and the download-progress icon is displayed.

Again, this seems to be an issue with the sandbox. Sometimes it just takes ages to respond. In my testing, I've got to the situation you were in, where it seems like nothing is happening, then I've left it for several minutes and it's started the download and updated the UI. It seems that Apple favours the real app store in respect to bandwidth.


> None of this is all that bad, but for someone who has a bunch of purchases and wants to get them all onto a new device, it is going to get a bit annoying. I think a Download All button somewhere would be really useful!

This is a good point, and I'll look into adding one. The current method gives you more control if you have a lot of crags and you're installing on a new device - you may only want one particular crag at that moment, but is definitely annoying if you just want to sync all across your devices.

 elyben 14 Sep 2015
The map tab button isn't working on my iPhone 5. When I tap it the screen is unchanged and doesn't crash so I'm not sure it is sending a crash report.

Ben
In reply to elyben:

> The map tab button isn't working on my iPhone 5. When I tap it the screen is unchanged and doesn't crash so I'm not sure it is sending a crash report.

I would suggest you quit the app and restart it.

Alan
In reply to elyben:

> The map tab button isn't working on my iPhone 5. When I tap it the screen is unchanged and doesn't crash so I'm not sure it is sending a crash report.

Hi Ben, can you give me any information on the circumstances leading up to this state? Was it working normally then suddenly stopped? Or did this happen when you brought the app out of the background perhaps?
 john arran 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I'd happily beta test if there was a version for smart phones rather than this one that seems to be for fruit machines
3
 Andy Morley 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Happy to participate in your tests if an iPad will work with it?
In reply to Andy Morley:

> Happy to participate in your tests if an iPad will work with it?

Hi Andy, just send an email to app@rockfax.com and we'll add you to the list.
 Andy Morley 16 Sep 2015
In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:

OK, so when I go from Downloads to Gower sport climbs, I can see the routes I did last Saturday. But whenever I hit 'Eastern Grit' I instantly go back to the home screen of my iPad Air 2. When this happens and I five-finger it or double click the fingerprint recognition button, I see that the Rockfax app is still open but when I select it, it has gone back a screen to the double 'Downloads' and 'My Crags' screen. I can replicate this over and over.

Also, if I were to access the bundle that says it costs £1.49, will it actually charge me? I've got as far as the point where it asks me for a fingerpring - I've just spent £15 on a Gower handbook so that bit of my budget is exhausted
 Muttly 17 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
Just trying to re-download Eastern Grit after replacing the app with the newer version. Each time i Hit Eastern Grit Rockfax closes.

I have also experienced that when downloading crags I am repeatedly asked for my apple ID. A Lot.

Seems only to be Eastern Grit that crashes it. This doubly a shame becuase I plan to climb on some Eastern Grit and wish to try the app in anger.
Post edited at 08:19
In reply to puppythedog:

The App is in for checking and verification now and I think this means that the beta version stops working - I will check.

Apple ID thing is something that we are pretty sure only happens during Beta Testing.

Alan
In reply to Andy Morley:

> Also, if I were to access the bundle that says it costs £1.49, will it actually charge me? I've got as far as the point where it asks me for a fingerpring - I've just spent £15 on a Gower handbook so that bit of my budget is exhausted

No charges were taken in the Beta testing version. When the actual working version is available we will let the Beta Testers know so that they don't accidentally start spending loads of money, although it will need to be downloaded direct from the App Store so it should be obvious.

Alan
 Muttly 17 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Does that mean the app will dissapear before i can use it in anger

As an aside to the 'does it work' aspect of beta testing,

Regarding price of crags and what coverage there is of crags. How do you work that out? E.G. Bamford is it definitive bamford or from Eastern Grit select bamford?
Looking at other apps with crags for sale I do get a bit frustrated that it seems as thought crags from selected guides would add up to more than the guide when I don't get a something physical in my hand.
For your own market research it will be the difference between me using the app and not (the price of the content).
In reply to puppythedog:
> Does that mean the app will dissapear before i can use it in anger

Probably.

Edit - just spoken to developer. The Beta versions will cease to function in around 20 days time. The crashes for Eastern Grit are a problem caused by the verification process which we are working on a fix for.

> Regarding price of crags and what coverage there is of crags. How do you work that out? E.G. Bamford is it definitive bamford or from Eastern Grit select bamford?

The information for the App is coming from our guidebooks so in most cases, what is in the guidebooks is what is on the App. As time goes by there will be more App-only crags added but initially we are just working with the info we have got. We do have a few App-only guidebooks coming out as well - the Siurana App, Gower Sport Climbs and a new Kalymnos App are both examples of that.

In this case your chosen example of Bamford is a little unfortunate since it is actually the free sample crag for Eastern Grit on the App, and the info in Eastern Grit is pretty close to being every route anyway, but your question is still relevant for other crags.

> Looking at other apps with crags for sale I do get a bit frustrated that it seems as thought crags from selected guides would add up to more than the guide when I don't get a something physical in my hand.

Don't follow this point.

Alan
Post edited at 09:47
 Muttly 17 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
I mean I would find it frustrating if buying the crags in app added up to more or even as much as if I bought the guidebook.
Addendum: and thanks for your response. Was hastily typing whilst waiting to get into a car park.
Post edited at 11:15
In reply to puppythedog:

> I mean I would find it frustrating if buying the crags in app added up to more or even as much as if I bought the guidebook.

Ah okay yes I get it now.

At the moment we are only able to sell crags individually and this will definitely cost more than a book containing all said crags. This is due to restrictions from the Apple Store.

We will be creating a new system whereby you can by individual crags, and full guidebooks pretty soon since this is essential for long term use, and for the Android version. We hope to operate a 'complete my guidebook' function on this so that if you by 6 crags from one guidebook area, and that amounts to more than the cost of the full guidebook, then you will be given the option to download the full book at no further charge (like iTunes complete my album). At this stage we are not 100% sure if we will be able to do this though.

Overall we anticipate the cost of an App version for a full App guidebook to be around 75% to 85% of the equivalent printed guidebook.

Alan
 Muttly 17 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Thanks Alan. Very comprehensive answer.

Will there ever be an option to have. A discount on buying botg hard copy and digital copy together?

So if Eastern Grit is £X and download is £Y you can buy both for less than X + Y?
In reply to puppythedog:

> Will there ever be an option to have. A discount on buying botg hard copy and digital copy together?
> So if Eastern Grit is £X and download is £Y you can buy both for less than X + Y?

Probably but only for future sales direct from the Rockfax web site. We can't track book sales elsewhere and it is expensive to put codes in books. We are also keen to establish it as a different product in its own right.

Alan
 Muttly 17 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Thanks again for your response. For your information it would make it more attractive to me.
 Andy Morley 18 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Eastern Grit is working fine for me now. I downloaded the Bamford crag and spent some time looking for the Gargoyle Flake route, this being the only one I've climbed at Bamford and not realising that the sample didn't include all routes. In my hunt, I gave it a fair amount of use and while the navigation seemed well thought-out, it also seemed a little clunky. Although this was the first time that I'd installed any crags, I had been in previously and and looked at other things and they didn't have a clunky feel at all two days ago.

Since the last time I looked, my iPad's operating system has been upgraded and the main change seems to be in how the iPad version of the 'Finder' works. They've changed how you sideways-scroll between open applications. I wonder whether this has anything to do with the slightly clunky feel of the topo navigation? Not a big issue for me, more of a subtle one but I thought it was worth a mention, given the upgrade.
In reply to Andy Morley:

> Since the last time I looked, my iPad's operating system has been upgraded and the main change seems to be in how the iPad version of the 'Finder' works. They've changed how you sideways-scroll between open applications. I wonder whether this has anything to do with the slightly clunky feel of the topo navigation? Not a big issue for me, more of a subtle one but I thought it was worth a mention, given the upgrade.

If your iPad is now running iOS 9, then this has certainly slowed down the app. In testing, the app runs very smoothly on an iPhone 5s with iOS 8.4, and is noticeably jerky on an iPhone 6 running iOS 9.

Older iPads also struggle with the hi-res images in the app, particularly those before the iPad Air.

From what I've seen, the whole operating system seems a bit jerkier with iOS 9, particularly on devices with a lot of pixels (including the 6+). Reducing transparency under Settings->General->Accessibility->Increase Contrast improves the smoothness of animations, but isn't a fix.

I'm currently working on performance tweaks for iOS 9, so there will definitely be some improvements to come.
 Andy Morley 18 Sep 2015
In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:

>From what I've seen, the whole operating system seems a bit jerkier with iOS 9, particularly on devices with a lot of pixels

You are probably right - the main change I've noticed with iOS 9 is a less slick graphical interface with the operating system. I think that must be an Apple 'disimprovement'

On the subject of your content, after looking at your Bamford bundle, I'm wondering if your focus in the beta version is on the shorter routes? I've currently got the Watch House Crag (Gower) page open in the app in front of me and that works really well - I climbed a few of those short sport routes last Saturday - I instantly recognised them when the page came up and if I were brave enough to take my iPad to the crag, it would be just as useful as the paper Gower Rock Guide I bought that morning. However, I'm wondering how you would treat the 71-meter, four-pitch trad-route at Tor Bay that I did on Sunday and that you haven't included yet - or is this my imagination working overtime here? After all, conventional guide-books don't seem to have a problem with long routes.
In reply to Andy Morley:
> On the subject of your content, after looking at your Bamford bundle, I'm wondering if your focus in the beta version is on the shorter routes?

Not at all, we're putting in all our books up to a certain point in time (about five years ago, give or take), but we've not done all of them yet.

> However, I'm wondering how you would treat the 71-meter, four-pitch trad-route at Tor Bay that I did on Sunday and that you haven't included yet - or is this my imagination working overtime here? After all, conventional guide-books don't seem to have a problem with long routes.

Check out some of the bundles in the Dolomites, Lofoten, North Wales, Ariege. There are loads of multi-pitch routes in them. These routes seem to work better on a screen in the sense that the size of the image when you zoom in is way bigger than it is on the printed page.

Something you may like is to select one of these long routes then press and hold the image to bring up the context menu, then choose 'focus route', which hides everything else.
Post edited at 23:43
 Andy Morley 19 Sep 2015
In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:

> Check out some of the bundles in the Dolomites, Lofoten, North Wales, Ariege. There are loads of multi-pitch routes in them.

just had some kind of a glitch when I hit the £ icon to download the Tremadog bundle. I don't think that the app _actually_ crashed because I was able to use the operating system to tab back into the app at the approximate place I was before. But it looked like it crashed - the app dissappeared from view leaving me in the iPad home page, though at the same time, all the download transaction dialogue boxes came and did their stuff and then went away again - it was just the background that had disappeared.
In reply to Andy Morley:

That was definitely a crash. The OS application switcher doesn't give an accurate impression of which applications are actually running, it just has screenshots of the recent state of recent applications (sometimes you may notice the screenshot is out of date when compared with the actual state of the application). When you tap on one of them it either brings it to the front if it's running, or starts it again if it's not.

Good news is I got your crash report, so thanks - I'll get that fixed for a future build.
 Andy Morley 19 Sep 2015
In reply to Stephen Horne - UKC:

> Good news is I got your crash report, so thanks - I'll get that fixed for a future build.

It may be partly to do with Apple - this latest iOS 9 seems a bit shaky. Often the slide feature to bring up the keypad or touch recognition just does not work, and I also keep on getting Siri when I do not want him. I think he interjected when I downloaded Peak Limestone just now and he interrupted the process and would not go away. The good news there is that the dialogue boxes continued over his head and the app didn't crash.
 withey 20 Sep 2015
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I emailed Paul Phillips a screenshot the other day where the "Downloads/My Crags" tabs had disappeared as it was mentioned earlier by John Roberts (I think)
In reply to withey:

Paul forwarded this on to me, thanks. I'm looking into exactly what happens here so I can prevent it.

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