UKC

I have been taking my son indoor climbing since he was 5, he is now 10. I can only take him once a week for around 4-5 hours on a Sunday. It got to the stage where he would clearly benefit from some guidance and teaching on movement / technique in order to move on and really progress his natural ability.  I therefore enrolled him on a weekly course at the local indoor wall. Problem is because he has never belayed before he has had to join the total novice course. He has now been doing this course for 8 weeks but from what I can see, due to group size he does about 6 climbs a sessions, although he is formally being taught to belay. I am worried that the net result of this is that he is now doing far less actual climbing, which is what he loves, and is not climbing with kids who will actually inspire him to push himself, progress and move on.  My question therefore is should I just pull him out and go back to climbing together and maybe looking at spending the course fee on one or two sessions with one to one tuition or just keep him on the course so that presumably he moves through the formal steps to presumably get the NICAS qualification etc etc.  Any advice really welcome 🙏🏽 

Can he reliably belay now?  I'd have a chat with the staff and see if he can move group.  I'm not sure on the working of the scheme but I'd assume it is possible to jump to a more suitable group at some point?  

1:1 occasionally and climbing with you in between might also be a good alternative.  

However it is worth bearing in mind that there are other important social skills and teamwork being learnt when he has to take his turn with the other children and encourage them.  Children with good social skills do better at school and into leadership.  He may be getting those skills elsewhere  (siblings, Scouts etc) but if not then it may be good for him.  From that viewpoint, moving to a harder group might be positive.  

8 weeks to learn how to belay WTF?  I think they saw you and your wallet coming

Al

Yeah, its a few hours at most walls. A day at most....

Also, isnt this taught as part of a juniors club too. With their peers...

I used to instruct NICAS groups, I believe some of the content of the courses have changed since I worked with it, but these are my observations of it as it stood.

Certainly when I delivered it, everyone had to start at level one, no matter what experience they had.  All the boxes of each stage had to be ticked before moving on to the next stage.  Some, very sensibly so, such as putting on a harness safely without assistance, trying on and belaying.  Kids can do it ftom age 7, and some definitely take a while to become proficient at these skills.

With a fairly large group, there can often be a huge disparity in ability and motivation - some kids loving it, keen to do everything, others there because they’ve been sent by parents and have zero interest and everything in between.  They don’t tend to get very many climbs each per session as they have to take turns and, certainly in level one NICAS, there’s not a great deal for of emphasis on movement on rock and coaching, it’s more safety/belay/getting up and lowering/behaviour at the wall orientated.

As the levels progress, more technical climbing instruction is introduced but there are still boxes to be ticked, and each level takes longer to complete with more climbs and belays to be undertaken and progression to be made before moving to the next level.

Whilst, NICAS style instruction should produce climbers who can safely and competently operate at an indoor wall, it is rather long-winded and exists at least partly, to keep people paying, keep regular visits to the wall going and keep instructors in work.

Perhaps your son might find a less structured “kids club” type format, or some actual coaching more suited to his needs, although, it shouldn’t be ignored and that learning to be a safe, competent and willing belayer is valuable in the long-term, as he’ll not go short of climbing partners if he has those skills to hand.

Thank you so much for your responses you all make really good points and there is food for thought. I think the point made by marsbar re social skills is really valid but also as Sealwife confirms I am not sure the “long-winded” approach will help him reach his full potential. Thanks again and I think in the first instance I will speak to the staff again about it. 

Cheers

I work at a large wall with a big NICAS program. NICAS is not a bad scheme, but in my opinion it does focus on the technical safety elements of climbing perhaps a bit too much, especially in the lower levels. However for many children this does seem to work very well.

Where I work we essentially have three different groups:

1. NICAS 

2. Performance squad that focuses on training and competition

3. Something in between the other two that is focused on coaching and climbing development but not necessarily on competitions.

Sessions 2 and 3 are invite only at our wall as it would normally be a prerequisite that the climber could belay safely already, and is actually motivated to focus on climbing (many say they are, but really aren’t). And one way of doing that is to have kids complete NICAS 2 or 3 first. 

So it may be worth taking the hit and getting through at least some levels of NICAS as other walls should recognise it. However, as you are about to do, the best thing would be to talk to your local wall about any other options they might have. 

Do you get his NICAS logbook home each week? That gives you instructor sign-offs of skills observed as well as yr sons log of climbs, so you can see progress. By now, he should be well past Level 1 (did he get a certificate maybe 3-4 weeks ago?). 

Can you chat to an instructor? Or just buy a coffee and watch a session? Your perspective there might be different to a 10-year old's!!  And another poster's comment about social skills/collaboration is an important one.

Good luck!

Does the course take up the whole of your normal 4-5 hour slot? If not and he enjoys the course and other kids why not just add in some more routes afterwards. Would seem like the cheaper option rather than forking out for some 1:1.

Has *he* expressed any of those concerns? Your post has a lot of "what I can see" and "I am worried".

If he complains (and no, don't fish - you're projecting enough already), then go back to the two of you. He'll learn by climbing anyway. Go to other places too if you can - more variety the better.

If he doesn't then let him enjoy the time with peers and take him climbing another time

In my experience the kids on NICAS Level 1 and 2 learn very little climbing skills, it's all basics. Once he moves to Level 3 he should be climbing independently with a partner and should do more climbs. The amount of instructor input he's going to get maybe quite small however.

From my experience combining both is good, let your son do the course for an hour or two and then belay him afterwards (this shouldn't cost extra) so he can get in a few more climbs. If he's too tired to do this then he's done enough climbing on the course anyhow.

If he is competent to belay move him on.

If he isn't competent then he either isn't ready or the class isn't working

There are important considerations beyond technical ability such as: being able to concentrate, take things seriously, prioritise, ignore distractions, attention to detail etc etc if these are sound then don't hang around otherwise don't rush.