UKC

/ Advice please!!

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Dan Southall - on 15 May 2018

Hi, 

Me and a friend have recently been on a mission to be the first to complete a 7a. He recently climbed one but had 3 rope assisted rests? Does this still count? I thought to complete a climb it need to be lead from bottom to top with no rope assisted rests and no swinging on quick draws etc? Can someone please help

thanks 

Dandan82 - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

Let the confusion commence!

In this situation, maybe just pick a style in which to complete the route and try to be the first to achieve it, worry about the terminology of what you did later.

daimon - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Dan:

Hi Dan.

No, the route needs to be climbed ground up without resting on the rope.

This is a good book to help you answer any further questions you may have.

https://www.rockfax.com/climbing-guides/books/sport-climbing-plus-2011/

Cheers

 

JLS on 15 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

>"Does this still count?"

Well, it doesn't count as a clean ascent but it counts for something. If he (and you) keep trying then I'm sure you'll both eventually success. All part and parcel of "working" a hard project with the added bonus it's good training.

Dan Southall - on 15 May 2018
In reply to JLS:

Thanks for the reply. In no way do I mean to discredit his achievement, I just think during rope rests it’s easy to skip the harder moves making the climb it self.  In your opion is the race still on? 

Carless - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

I'd say your race is definitely still on

He has dogged up a 7a but not yet climbed it cleanly (ie. no rests and no assistance)

JLS on 15 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

>" In your opion is the race still on? "

Sounds like you and your mate didn't define the rules before the start of the race.

In time your mate will come to realise the "style" of his ascent wasn't all that it could have been but until he does, if that's the "rules" he was playing to, then he's won *his* race. The race can continue with your rules.

Shame if you've lost a tenner mind.

Post edited at 16:57
UKC Forums - on 15 May 2018
This thread was started in the ROCKFAX forum and has now been moved.
Please could you try and post in the correct forum, it makes life easier for both users and moderators.

ROCKTALK
A general forum for topics relating to climbing. This is the place to debate things like specific routes, ethics, grading, styles of ascent, top roping, headpointing, bouldering, bolts, the latest news and anything else that you have an opinion on. The only caveat is that the topic shouldn't be too trivial, keep the really light-hearted climbing stuff in the Pub.

More Forum descriptions - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/forums.html
taddersandbadger - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

Agree 100% with the comments so far, the race is definitely still on!

“Climbed” by popular consensus means climbed “clean” with no falls and no rests on the rope during the attempt.

So put down that slice of cake and get back on the training )

 

john arran - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

>  Can someone please help

Yes, of course: It's 'led' rather than 'lead'.

Happy to help

Dan Southall - on 15 May 2018
In reply to taddersandbadger:

Thanks for the reply! Regardless I will reach that 7 ????????

JLS on 15 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

Have you got your redpoint tactics dialled?

1. Progressive warm-up 5-7 routes (F5, F5+, 6a, 6a+, 6b, 6b+)

2. 20min rest.

3. 3x 7a attempts with 25min rests between tries. (assumes 10-15m long route)

 

Post edited at 21:11
Kevster - on 15 May 2018
In reply to JLS:

That's a lot of warm up routes for my money. Individuals tactics may differ!

 

thebigfriendlymoose - on 15 May 2018
In reply to JLS:

> Have you got your redpoint tactics dialled?

> 1. Progressive warm-up 5-7 routes (F5, F5+, 6a, 6a+, 6b, 6b+)

> 2. 20min rest.

> 3. 3x 7a attempts with 25min rests between tries. (assumes 10-15m long route)


I'd be ready to go home halfway through that set of warm-ups!  I guess it goes to show that "YMMV".  My own preferred RP tactic is a 20 min fingerboard session / woodie warm-up before going to the crag.  Warming up a bit more by dogging up the target route to put the quick-draws in - being careful on any particularly nasty moves but making sure that the sequence is fully refreshed in the memory.  Then RP attempts with at least 1hrs rest between, preferably 1.5-2hrs (take a book or cryptic crossword).

Gordon Stainforth - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

Two general questions:

1. Do you think that almost all routes are correctly graded?

2. Do you think that the most important aspect of any rock climb is its grade?

JLS on 15 May 2018
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

It's true I've made the bold assumption that we are probably talking about a short indoor route, possibly on top rope. While I agree your tactics are appropriate for a day on the Catwalk, you'd not be getting much of an evening indoor wall session with 1.5 hour rests between burns!

Dan Southall - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Answer to the first question is “no” I think each setter has there own style some play to my strengths and some to my weaknesses. Second question again is “no” most important thing for me is I enjoy it. 

JLS on 15 May 2018
In reply to Kevster:

> That's a lot of warm up routes for my money. Individuals tactics may differ!

What can I say... I like climbing.

The wall I train at is quite short at around 12m. Typically, I usually actually do 9 routes as the first couple I'll do doubles I.e. 2xF5, 2x6a/+, 6b, 6b/+, 6c, 6c, 6c+/7a. That takes about 1hr15. Then the training starts...

Outdoors, as Moose outlines, warming-up is mostly just progressively pulling harder while dogging/stick-clipping up the project to put the draws in.

Bulls Crack - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Just about near enough 

Yes for a lot of  sport climbing

thebigfriendlymoose - on 15 May 2018
In reply to JLS:

> It's true I've made the bold assumption that we are probably talking about a short indoor route, possibly on top rope. While I agree your tactics are appropriate for a day on the Catwalk, you'd not be getting much of an evening indoor wall session with 1.5 hour rests between burns!


+1. My tactics are based on working long  routes at Kilnsey, with all day to play with.  Outside the constraints of an indoor session, you have to ask yourself, "do I want to tick the route, or just get some exercise"? If success at your physical limit  is the goal: long rests. Setting off whilst in the least bit tired, you are just training/ keeping busy.

Gordon Stainforth - on 15 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

Nice to see people giving honest, but completely different, answers. ((And weird to see some people not liking the questions ... but then we live in an age that doesn't appear to like questioning very much.)) Of course there can be no definitive answers. It's a bit like asking 1. Does how much one is paid accurately reflect the worth of one's job? and 2. Is how much one is paid the most important aspect of one's job? [Late night ramble.]

Post edited at 23:49
AlanLittle - on 16 May 2018
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

As one of the dislikers: it's not genuine questions I dislike, it's rhetorical questions that are primarily meant as a sarcastic put-down of the OP.

Which was how I perceived yours, sorry for the misunderstanding if they weren't meant that way.

overdrawnboy - on 16 May 2018
In reply to AlanLittle:

There seems to be a string of, what seems to me ,  to be witless questions on here:  what boots to buy if I have odd feet, what rope to use on a short crag, are crag grades all consistent, what crags are best for a catholic in an east wind on Tuesday etc. Are these people just bored and in need of some attention or are they actually incapable of making a simple decision for themselves.  I'm amazed how few sarcastic put downs appear , it is very tempting.

Gordon Stainforth - on 16 May 2018
In reply to AlanLittle:

> As one of the dislikers: it's not genuine questions I dislike, it's rhetorical questions that are primarily meant as a sarcastic put-down of the OP.

> Which was how I perceived yours, sorry for the misunderstanding if they weren't meant that way.

Well, the questions were neither rhetorical or sarcastic. And certainly not meant as a put-down. Several people had no trouble answering them in widely different ways. What it shows is that different people have different values regarding what's important in climbing. For some people, the grade is everything, for others it's not so important. 40 years of trad climbing led me to believe that they were not particularly reliable. It seems that in sport climbing they are quite a lot more accurate and meaningful. 

I do believe the questions go to the heart of what climbing is about for different people, i.e. they are not trivial questions and are well worth asking. 

webbo - on 16 May 2018
In reply to overdrawnboy:

> There seems to be a string of, what seems to me ,  to be witless questions on here:  what boots to buy if I have odd feet, what rope to use on a short crag, are crag grades all consistent, what crags are best for a catholic in an east wind on Tuesday etc. Are these people just bored and in need of some attention or are they actually incapable of making a simple decision for themselves.  I'm amazed how few sarcastic put downs appear , it is very tempting.

I wonder how they manage to make it from the bedroom to the bathroom without asking for advice.

 

Dan Southall - on 16 May 2018
In reply to webbo: my apologies is this not the place to ask for climbing advice?

 

webbo - on 16 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

If in the time it’s taken you to develop the ability to be able to do the moves on a 7a, you have not learnt that an ascent is only valid if you climb from the bottom to the top without weighting any gear. 

Then you need watch and listen more when at the crag.

 

 

Dan Southall - on 17 May 2018
In reply to webbo:

 Thanks for your reply’s although both of them have been nothing but poor examples of pointless sarcasm. I asked a simple question something I needed to clear up between me and a friend! I did try to explain the fact to my knowledge the correct way to complete a climb is with no rope rests, obviously this is something you overlooked during your rush to fuel your own ego. Im not too sure how long your assuming it’s taken me and my friend to develop the skills to climb 7s, but in perspective it’s come around quite fast. Maybe I should take your advice spending more time “listening at the crag” how foolish of me to think taking my question to a worldwide forum of climbers was a good idea. ?????????

Trangia on 17 May 2018
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> I do believe the questions go to the heart of what climbing is about for different people, i.e. they are not trivial questions and are well worth asking. 

I'm not so certain, because there is no definitive answer. As you say yourself :

"What it shows is that different people have different values regarding what's important in climbing."

So asking such questions on a forum is rather pointless. There is no agreed set of rules laid down by the BMC or other body representing climbers. Yes, there are "conventions" concerning rests etc which are often broadly agreed by bodies of climbers, but there is no compulsion to abide by them. There are common sense conventions like not chipping or damaging the rock, but if you want to rest or use an in situ peg for example, no one is going to castigate you for it, it's about how you feel yourself. 

To the OP you and your mate must be the ultimate arbiters here no one else can tell you. They can tell how they might interpret it, but that's just an opinion. Ultimately why you climb, how you do it, and what satisfaction you derive from it is up to you and how you feel about it. If your friend rested, then if he feels ok about it, then that's up to him. You may not agree, and you may have an opinion about him, but does it really matter? 

Carry on climbing and aiming for goals you set yourselves, but don't let it spoil your fun because no one else is really interested to that extent.

 

 

webbo - on 17 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

If you already knew the answer why did you need to ask, appears to be a slightly bizarre thing to do.

Or were you hoping someone would ask you how long it’s taken you to be able to dog the moves on a 7a and then you can boost your ego by saying “ oh I’ve only been climbing for a week”

Post edited at 08:51
Bulls Crack - on 17 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

Well said - you should be able to receive a polite answer but this is UKC!

However, you should also expect a fair amount of curiosity re: how you managed to avoid the necessary  information to give your mate given the power of Google and the plethora of information in climbing/instructional  videos etc.  - many of them on this website!

jkarran - on 17 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

> Me and a friend have recently been on a mission to be the first to complete a 7a. He recently climbed one but had 3 rope assisted rests? Does this still count?

You and your friend are in competition, you and your friend set the rules of that competition. Most climbers wouldn't outside of very specific contexts consider an ascent with rests to be a valid ascent, more an indication that a successful redpoint is within reach.

jk

springfall2008 - on 17 May 2018
In reply to Dan Southall:

It depends what you agreed "complete" means, but by UKC standards it needs to be clean (no rests or falls) to give you a logbook check.

 


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