This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
I'd be interested to hear from Avon diehards and Bristol regulars as to whether they feel the gorge is declining in popularity or not.
As a local, I feel like I don't see nearly as many climbers on the cliffs as I did a few years ago, but perhaps I'm wrong. I get the impression that interest in climbing is on the up, what with now four indoor venues available, but surely people want to escape the walls too, especially in good weather, and make use of somewhere on their doorstep?
I'm probably typical of many 20-30something Bristol climbers, and therefore that probably answers my own question! Been here for 8yrs or so and sporadically teetered up "exciting" Avon classics now and again trying not to act scared, but all-in-all found it difficult to interest climbing partners in the quirks and oddities of trad in the gorge so spent most weekends sport climbing in Portland and Cheddar etc or trad ticking in the crowd-pulling destinations in Wales and the peaks.
I started making more of the gorge while the ClimbBristol initiative was active and there seemed a healthy surge in popularity. I slowly but surely grew more fond of it, with much of it (OK, up to E1) suiting my style. I can't believe what Bristolians have on our doorstep - how many opportunities for post-work urban mountaineering do you get in other cities? - but it almost saddens me when I'm driving up the portway on a perfect day and can't see any teams for the whole stretch!
Perhaps people with longer memories might feel otherwise?
As a local, I feel like I don't see nearly as many climbers on the cliffs as I did a few years ago, but perhaps I'm wrong. I get the impression that interest in climbing is on the up, what with now four indoor venues available, but surely people want to escape the walls too, especially in good weather, and make use of somewhere on their doorstep?
I'm probably typical of many 20-30something Bristol climbers, and therefore that probably answers my own question! Been here for 8yrs or so and sporadically teetered up "exciting" Avon classics now and again trying not to act scared, but all-in-all found it difficult to interest climbing partners in the quirks and oddities of trad in the gorge so spent most weekends sport climbing in Portland and Cheddar etc or trad ticking in the crowd-pulling destinations in Wales and the peaks.
I started making more of the gorge while the ClimbBristol initiative was active and there seemed a healthy surge in popularity. I slowly but surely grew more fond of it, with much of it (OK, up to E1) suiting my style. I can't believe what Bristolians have on our doorstep - how many opportunities for post-work urban mountaineering do you get in other cities? - but it almost saddens me when I'm driving up the portway on a perfect day and can't see any teams for the whole stretch!
Perhaps people with longer memories might feel otherwise?
7
In reply to badgerjockey:
I have been down a few times on sunny evenings recently and found the place deserted. Very strange.
On the other hand I have encountered some local students down at the main wall a few times in the last 6 months. They seem to have the right attitude so maybe the future isn't all bad.
I have been down a few times on sunny evenings recently and found the place deserted. Very strange.
On the other hand I have encountered some local students down at the main wall a few times in the last 6 months. They seem to have the right attitude so maybe the future isn't all bad.
2
1
In reply to badgerjockey:
Declining massively compared to its eighties peak, is my impression.
It's not surprising it's unfashionable, really. Thinking, footholds, etc. It's not the modern way.
jcm
Declining massively compared to its eighties peak, is my impression.
It's not surprising it's unfashionable, really. Thinking, footholds, etc. It's not the modern way.
jcm
8
7
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I don't think it is just Avon. I revisited Almscliff for the first time in about twenty years, a couple of weeks ago on a Saturday afternoon with good weather. I saw just one boulderer and a few walkers. I suppose rest are clipping bolts in sunny Spain etc.
I don't think it is just Avon. I revisited Almscliff for the first time in about twenty years, a couple of weeks ago on a Saturday afternoon with good weather. I saw just one boulderer and a few walkers. I suppose rest are clipping bolts in sunny Spain etc.
In reply to badgerjockey:
I've only been a few times and only recently, but hardly seems busy.
I really like the place, it's got a different feel to a lot of the places I've been.
I'd love to have it as a local crag, but then I live in London, so I'd take anything over nothing!
I've only been a few times and only recently, but hardly seems busy.
I really like the place, it's got a different feel to a lot of the places I've been.
I'd love to have it as a local crag, but then I live in London, so I'd take anything over nothing!
3
In reply to badgerjockey:
The Gorge is great for after work, but if it's a sunny weekend then I expect many people would rather go a bit further afield. This weekend it could be even be too hot for the gorge.
Having said that I've seen the gorge fairly busy recently on weekends (queues on the gronk Morpheus belay).
The Gorge is great for after work, but if it's a sunny weekend then I expect many people would rather go a bit further afield. This weekend it could be even be too hot for the gorge.
Having said that I've seen the gorge fairly busy recently on weekends (queues on the gronk Morpheus belay).
1
In reply to badgerjockey:
Climbed there throughout the 90's and it was never busy. Too bold and too scary probably!
Shorncliffe was starting to get mobbed at about the same time and there was always somebody at Wintours Leap.
I liked Avon, the noise, the ancient pegs, the bridge, Downs, the oven-like temperatures and wobbling around on unlikely looking footholds. Some of the Main Wall Mal routes were the scariest things I have ever done.
Climbed there throughout the 90's and it was never busy. Too bold and too scary probably!
Shorncliffe was starting to get mobbed at about the same time and there was always somebody at Wintours Leap.
I liked Avon, the noise, the ancient pegs, the bridge, Downs, the oven-like temperatures and wobbling around on unlikely looking footholds. Some of the Main Wall Mal routes were the scariest things I have ever done.
2
In reply to Rob Morgan:
I believe this may be the truth, I am regularly at Avon after work during the week, but have spent no more than 4-5 weekend days there since being in Bristol, with the Wye so close the gorge can be overshadowed by its quieter and just as adventurous neighbours. That and Pembroke is full of bristolians most summer weekends.
I believe this may be the truth, I am regularly at Avon after work during the week, but have spent no more than 4-5 weekend days there since being in Bristol, with the Wye so close the gorge can be overshadowed by its quieter and just as adventurous neighbours. That and Pembroke is full of bristolians most summer weekends.
In reply to badgerjockey:
Having lived here for twenty years, i'd also say that interest has declined, not just in the Gorge but at Wintours as well. The ability to climb after work must be as good as anywhere in the country but often you'll see no-one else. On the other hand, the bouldering walls are going from strength to strength. I know a few people who happily go down to the wall on a beatiful evening. They would like to be able to go outside but struggle to get into trad, for various reasons. Two fringe benefits are that there is never anyone on my intended route and that the holds aren't being polished into oblivion.
Having lived here for twenty years, i'd also say that interest has declined, not just in the Gorge but at Wintours as well. The ability to climb after work must be as good as anywhere in the country but often you'll see no-one else. On the other hand, the bouldering walls are going from strength to strength. I know a few people who happily go down to the wall on a beatiful evening. They would like to be able to go outside but struggle to get into trad, for various reasons. Two fringe benefits are that there is never anyone on my intended route and that the holds aren't being polished into oblivion.
1
4
3
In reply to Dave Cundy:
"I know a few people who happily go down to the wall on a beatiful evening."
Many of my friends are the same and the thought just makes me shudder! I guess I will never be as strong as them though. I just end up going soloing which is not ideal... The Bristol surroundings are peppered with bouldering though! Erring slightly on the esoteric perhaps...
Also, I know it's only small but I really like the new quarry sport routes and would happily repeat them to death after work. Not going over to the Leigh woods side yet but I'm looking forward to the odd bit of exploring there.
I should put in a special mention for the new Avon guide, it really is an excellent job and fingers crossed will encourage more to explore the area where the last guide confused or discouraged.
"I know a few people who happily go down to the wall on a beatiful evening."
Many of my friends are the same and the thought just makes me shudder! I guess I will never be as strong as them though. I just end up going soloing which is not ideal... The Bristol surroundings are peppered with bouldering though! Erring slightly on the esoteric perhaps...
Also, I know it's only small but I really like the new quarry sport routes and would happily repeat them to death after work. Not going over to the Leigh woods side yet but I'm looking forward to the odd bit of exploring there.
I should put in a special mention for the new Avon guide, it really is an excellent job and fingers crossed will encourage more to explore the area where the last guide confused or discouraged.
Post edited at 10:25
1
In reply to dunnyg:
The conditions were barely warm, and the best side of the crag, which faces north, was out of the sun.
The conditions were barely warm, and the best side of the crag, which faces north, was out of the sun.
1
In reply to badgerjockey:
I think you may have answered your own question.
> I get the impression that interest in climbing is on the up, what with now four indoor venues available,
I think you may have answered your own question.
In reply to John Stainforth:
Based on one quiet crag in Yorkshire. Even Sherlock Holmes would struggle with that one.
They must have all got the crazy idea that Spain was a good place to climb in late June very recently. The odd weekend I went last year it was packed.
> I suppose rest are clipping bolts in sunny Spain etc.
Based on one quiet crag in Yorkshire. Even Sherlock Holmes would struggle with that one.
They must have all got the crazy idea that Spain was a good place to climb in late June very recently. The odd weekend I went last year it was packed.
5
In reply to badgerjockey:
It's a specialist type of climbing which is massively removed from wall climbing. I mean lets face it, strength (other than on the ramp) is barely required. Precise footwork is a must, hand holds that you can just grab and pull on are at a premium and gear, well, sometimes what gear. It makes me chuckle that there are climbers in Redpoint who regularly climb 7a's but if you stuck them on something like Mobius, Nightcap or the other one in the middle of seawalls - the name escapes me, it would melt their faces clean off.
At the end of the day you need climbers who like risk, like very technical, balancy climbing and who are capable of maximising their protection possibilities. A wall rat that ain't. Unfortunately in a fast food society such as we live in, those things are not going to just suddenly appear either without people actively going out of their way to make themselves deeply uncomfortable. Firstly by confronting that they have serious weaknesses in their climbing because they are used to colour blobs. Don't get me wrong - I go indoors especially in the winter an I value the strength and fitness it buys me. But all too often it is portrayed as a thing in its own right. It's become a thing people do for fitness instead of going to a gym with no intent to ever leave the wall - go figure. But secondly walls are effectively an echo chamber - you are there with a bunch of people who are doing the same as you - if you are surrounded by people who like sport climbing because its convienient then what are you going to think about the "scary" gorge?
It's a specialist type of climbing which is massively removed from wall climbing. I mean lets face it, strength (other than on the ramp) is barely required. Precise footwork is a must, hand holds that you can just grab and pull on are at a premium and gear, well, sometimes what gear. It makes me chuckle that there are climbers in Redpoint who regularly climb 7a's but if you stuck them on something like Mobius, Nightcap or the other one in the middle of seawalls - the name escapes me, it would melt their faces clean off.
At the end of the day you need climbers who like risk, like very technical, balancy climbing and who are capable of maximising their protection possibilities. A wall rat that ain't. Unfortunately in a fast food society such as we live in, those things are not going to just suddenly appear either without people actively going out of their way to make themselves deeply uncomfortable. Firstly by confronting that they have serious weaknesses in their climbing because they are used to colour blobs. Don't get me wrong - I go indoors especially in the winter an I value the strength and fitness it buys me. But all too often it is portrayed as a thing in its own right. It's become a thing people do for fitness instead of going to a gym with no intent to ever leave the wall - go figure. But secondly walls are effectively an echo chamber - you are there with a bunch of people who are doing the same as you - if you are surrounded by people who like sport climbing because its convienient then what are you going to think about the "scary" gorge?
24
8
In reply to badgerjockey:
Erring slightly on the esoteric perhaps...
Have you dared to go to the Sea Mills boulders yet?
I got bored and went looking for them a few months back, and for my sins I found them.
Erring slightly on the esoteric perhaps...
Have you dared to go to the Sea Mills boulders yet?
I got bored and went looking for them a few months back, and for my sins I found them.
1
In reply to beardy mike:
I don't think "scary" should have inverted commas. It is genuinely scary and dangerous and it kills people, even experienced ones. And that's why I don't do any trad any more. I would possibly consider it again somewhere with meaningful protection maybe, but Avon? No way. I want to be able to feel I can push my grade without ending up dead.
I don't think "scary" should have inverted commas. It is genuinely scary and dangerous and it kills people, even experienced ones. And that's why I don't do any trad any more. I would possibly consider it again somewhere with meaningful protection maybe, but Avon? No way. I want to be able to feel I can push my grade without ending up dead.
13
9
In reply to hms:
It depends on the route though doesn't it. Much of the gear IS meaningful but you have to be good at placing it and reading routes to find it in the first place. And yes run outs are common, especially in the quarried areas like main area. When I said scary in inverted commas I was implying that it becomes hearsay once it gets beyond someone who has actually been and an aura develops which becomes exclusitory. What represents an unacceptable risk to you is not necessarily unacceptable to someone else and statistics being what they are, means that in amongst those wall rats who don't want to go because their mate says they will die, there are some who would actually love the nature of the climbing there.
It depends on the route though doesn't it. Much of the gear IS meaningful but you have to be good at placing it and reading routes to find it in the first place. And yes run outs are common, especially in the quarried areas like main area. When I said scary in inverted commas I was implying that it becomes hearsay once it gets beyond someone who has actually been and an aura develops which becomes exclusitory. What represents an unacceptable risk to you is not necessarily unacceptable to someone else and statistics being what they are, means that in amongst those wall rats who don't want to go because their mate says they will die, there are some who would actually love the nature of the climbing there.
6
In reply to badgerjockey:
I think "proper climbing" probably isn't declining but its been dwarfed by the new wave over the last 10 years. I mean "proper climbing" as in a day out and pottering up some rocks either out on the hills or in some disused quarry, wearing old clothes and using a barely functional guidebook. I have to say that I miss this side of climbing.
Cranking hard on plastic, NICAS and all that is basically a different sport. Even at the more climbery end of things (I.E. folk taking sport climbing seriously) people are waking up to the idea that if you try hard then you can do well, trying hard for the average person really means bolts and focused sessions.
If you are training hard at the wall a lot and its all about grades then there isn't much chance you are going to waste half a day scaring yourself silly on a VS in the gorge is there? The reward to time ratio just isn't worth it. I don't see the problem with this juxtaposition though, climbing can and will be all things to all folks.
Final note: I suspect the age of the digital feature, "10 best climbs at:..." , expensively produced photo-top guides (which inevitably get made for popular areas first) and other internettery might well be increasing the honey-potting going on. Lets face it if you have driven 4 hours to get to snowdonia then you are very likely to want the guarantee of a full colour topo and some sexy photos of the climb you are going to take on.
I think "proper climbing" probably isn't declining but its been dwarfed by the new wave over the last 10 years. I mean "proper climbing" as in a day out and pottering up some rocks either out on the hills or in some disused quarry, wearing old clothes and using a barely functional guidebook. I have to say that I miss this side of climbing.
Cranking hard on plastic, NICAS and all that is basically a different sport. Even at the more climbery end of things (I.E. folk taking sport climbing seriously) people are waking up to the idea that if you try hard then you can do well, trying hard for the average person really means bolts and focused sessions.
If you are training hard at the wall a lot and its all about grades then there isn't much chance you are going to waste half a day scaring yourself silly on a VS in the gorge is there? The reward to time ratio just isn't worth it. I don't see the problem with this juxtaposition though, climbing can and will be all things to all folks.
Final note: I suspect the age of the digital feature, "10 best climbs at:..." , expensively produced photo-top guides (which inevitably get made for popular areas first) and other internettery might well be increasing the honey-potting going on. Lets face it if you have driven 4 hours to get to snowdonia then you are very likely to want the guarantee of a full colour topo and some sexy photos of the climb you are going to take on.
4
In reply to badgerjockey:
I'm pretty sure that declining numbers is a good thing as long as traffic is of a sufficient volume to keep the routes clean. I suppose it's too much to hope that this happens in the Peak
I'm pretty sure that declining numbers is a good thing as long as traffic is of a sufficient volume to keep the routes clean. I suppose it's too much to hope that this happens in the Peak
Post edited at 14:33
4
In reply to petellis:
It's true that the gorge just isn't going to appeal to everyone. And it most definitely can be scary, more often than not in my experience! But if general climbing interest is increasing, surely there's an untapped potential bunch of newish climbers who'd love it there, albeit increasing in numbers at a slower rate...
We have plenty of more amenable areas locally where these climbers could whet their appetites, Shorncliffe, Portishead, Fairy Cave, even much of cheddar!
I swear I am seeing more vegetation encroaching climbs (and walk-ins) than in previous years as well as rotten or snapped pegs and lost original bolts only being replaced on the most popular routes. Some of the belay trees have seen better days. There is only so much a single annual winter scrub bash can achieve. So, what potential is there for BCC or BMC taking up the reins for funding ClimbBristol again or another concerted effort to promote, clean and maintain this major venue? Surely this would see renewed interest and much needed traffic, nicely complementing the new guide. It's what got me turned onto the place anyway.
I'll admit I've not attended any of the BMCSW meetings for 2 or 3 years so this issue has probably been hotly debated but I'd like to find out if anyone knows...
There is also the issue of recent accidents too though. I'm sure they play their part.
It's true that the gorge just isn't going to appeal to everyone. And it most definitely can be scary, more often than not in my experience! But if general climbing interest is increasing, surely there's an untapped potential bunch of newish climbers who'd love it there, albeit increasing in numbers at a slower rate...
We have plenty of more amenable areas locally where these climbers could whet their appetites, Shorncliffe, Portishead, Fairy Cave, even much of cheddar!
I swear I am seeing more vegetation encroaching climbs (and walk-ins) than in previous years as well as rotten or snapped pegs and lost original bolts only being replaced on the most popular routes. Some of the belay trees have seen better days. There is only so much a single annual winter scrub bash can achieve. So, what potential is there for BCC or BMC taking up the reins for funding ClimbBristol again or another concerted effort to promote, clean and maintain this major venue? Surely this would see renewed interest and much needed traffic, nicely complementing the new guide. It's what got me turned onto the place anyway.
I'll admit I've not attended any of the BMCSW meetings for 2 or 3 years so this issue has probably been hotly debated but I'd like to find out if anyone knows...
There is also the issue of recent accidents too though. I'm sure they play their part.
In reply to badgerjockey:
Don't forget that the ticks have been out for the last few weeks. They rarely increase the popularity of a venue.
Don't forget that the ticks have been out for the last few weeks. They rarely increase the popularity of a venue.
1
In reply to davidbeynon:
Someone been daubing holds with chalk again?....... Surely beta graffetti makes it easier?
crawls off into the bracken....
Someone been daubing holds with chalk again?....... Surely beta graffetti makes it easier?
crawls off into the bracken....
2
In reply to badgerjockey:
Proportion of climbers doing real climbing is dropping. Lots of gym types realising they can go to a climbing wall instead whether because it's more fun or for kudos. Actual number of outdoor climbers staying similar. Good.
I think this is what the bmc furore was about. We don't want to grow as a 'sport'. Just want to climb and have a body represent us mainly for access
Proportion of climbers doing real climbing is dropping. Lots of gym types realising they can go to a climbing wall instead whether because it's more fun or for kudos. Actual number of outdoor climbers staying similar. Good.
I think this is what the bmc furore was about. We don't want to grow as a 'sport'. Just want to climb and have a body represent us mainly for access
7
1
In reply to badgerjockey:
I've only been climbing for 3 years but at a guess and from what I've been told and seen. People use to have to climb outside as the indoor facilities didn't exist in the same way they do now. As people can now enjoy the form of movement required for climbing without the risk, the average person may not see any logic taking the risk. A modern trad climber in the type of areas you're talking isn't just someone who's been force outdoors for lack of facilities but someone who also wants to the mental challenge. Even as my generation (I'm only a drunk 27 old by the way) give way to the next I think I can see more kids caught up in bubble wrap now than when I was young (also fortunate enough to be born prior to PlayStation). Unfortunately more and more people are now more risk averse.
I've only been climbing for 3 years but at a guess and from what I've been told and seen. People use to have to climb outside as the indoor facilities didn't exist in the same way they do now. As people can now enjoy the form of movement required for climbing without the risk, the average person may not see any logic taking the risk. A modern trad climber in the type of areas you're talking isn't just someone who's been force outdoors for lack of facilities but someone who also wants to the mental challenge. Even as my generation (I'm only a drunk 27 old by the way) give way to the next I think I can see more kids caught up in bubble wrap now than when I was young (also fortunate enough to be born prior to PlayStation). Unfortunately more and more people are now more risk averse.
3
1
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Slightly smug, but mainly baffled at how there can be such a disparity between what people are physically capable of and what they are mentally capable of. Personally I cut my teeth on Avon run outs as it was what I could get to easily by bus, train and walking whilst I was at uni and was never that inspired by indoor climbing. But I can understand that some are, just makes me chuckle when a weak punter like myself can get up something that is mentally challenging but stops a good sport climber dead in their tracks! There again the same person would just blast me on anything steep.
Slightly smug, but mainly baffled at how there can be such a disparity between what people are physically capable of and what they are mentally capable of. Personally I cut my teeth on Avon run outs as it was what I could get to easily by bus, train and walking whilst I was at uni and was never that inspired by indoor climbing. But I can understand that some are, just makes me chuckle when a weak punter like myself can get up something that is mentally challenging but stops a good sport climber dead in their tracks! There again the same person would just blast me on anything steep.
Post edited at 18:33
3
In reply to badgerjockey:
On that note, I've just moved to Bristol and I'm looking for climbing partners. Best onsights E1 5b/F6C+. PM me if interested. Cheers.
On that note, I've just moved to Bristol and I'm looking for climbing partners. Best onsights E1 5b/F6C+. PM me if interested. Cheers.
3
1
In reply to beardy mike:
They might be mentally capable of more if they got out more. Is it really that baffling somebody who can pull hard on plastic, with bolts every metre, over nice rubber tiles, would really struggle to climb in a situation where a mistake could lead to serious injury or death?
> but mainly baffled at how there can be such a disparity between what people are physically capable of and what they are mentally capable of.
They might be mentally capable of more if they got out more. Is it really that baffling somebody who can pull hard on plastic, with bolts every metre, over nice rubber tiles, would really struggle to climb in a situation where a mistake could lead to serious injury or death?
1
In reply to 1poundSOCKS: I guess not no. I guess it's just experience and knowing what you can do. And I agree that it's just about getting out - that was kind of my point about the echo chamber of a wall. One person goes out, finds Avon scary as, then tells their friends and you end up with a generation thinking that Cheddar is less scary than Avon! I mean by comparison, some of the most scared days I've ever had have been in Cheddar climbing in crazy positions utterly convinced I was about to die... the top pitch of Doomwatch springs to mind!
In reply to badgerjockey:
If you're not a local, then isn't parking a major issue?
We regularly took the trip down the M4 from the home counties back in the 80s. The arrival of the travellers in the main wall car park, then the council stabilization works meant that for many years we just got out of the habit of climbing in the gorge.
The current parking situation doesn't seem to have improved and even the new guidebook suggests cycling to the gorge as a resolution
So I suspect that climbers from outside the area are heading to places where they're more confident they'll not end up driving round in ever decreasing circles looking for a parking space.
If you're not a local, then isn't parking a major issue?
We regularly took the trip down the M4 from the home counties back in the 80s. The arrival of the travellers in the main wall car park, then the council stabilization works meant that for many years we just got out of the habit of climbing in the gorge.
The current parking situation doesn't seem to have improved and even the new guidebook suggests cycling to the gorge as a resolution
So I suspect that climbers from outside the area are heading to places where they're more confident they'll not end up driving round in ever decreasing circles looking for a parking space.
In reply to Adrian Daniels:
Main wall parking situation is poor, sea walls is OK most of the time. Parking at the top and descending is fairly reliable. I find that living within walking distance helps most though.
Main wall parking situation is poor, sea walls is OK most of the time. Parking at the top and descending is fairly reliable. I find that living within walking distance helps most though.
1
In reply to Adrian Daniels:
I think you have raised a valid point. IMO the popularity of climbing in Avon Gorge did appear to decline sharply when the travellers established themselves in the, what was then, new car park. Shortly after this vegetation and nesting birds took over the crag and it never fully recovered as far as climbing was concerned. Neither did the car park nor the toilet block
Al
I think you have raised a valid point. IMO the popularity of climbing in Avon Gorge did appear to decline sharply when the travellers established themselves in the, what was then, new car park. Shortly after this vegetation and nesting birds took over the crag and it never fully recovered as far as climbing was concerned. Neither did the car park nor the toilet block
Al
Post edited at 21:11
In reply to Adrian Daniels:
I never fail to find a decent nearby parking spot - a symptom of a decline in popularity...
I never fail to find a decent nearby parking spot - a symptom of a decline in popularity...
1
In reply to Adrian Daniels:
Parking is not an issue, at all. Rare to even see the two unofficial spaces for suspension bridge and amphitheatre taken.
Parking is not an issue, at all. Rare to even see the two unofficial spaces for suspension bridge and amphitheatre taken.
In reply to badgerjockey:
Recent accidents dont help, one in particular has upset quite a few Avon climbers I know, myself included. However I love climbing in the gorge, the general style of climbing is a learned art but once you have the knack its lovely climbing. Theres all styles too, adventure slabs on main wall, safe steady wall climbing on suspension bridge, steep clip up jug pulling on the ramp etc
I know many many people that just go to Bloc or whatever and have no interest in climbing outside. I dont understand it personally, its a shame I think. They dont understand that climbing indoors is a last resort and is only training. I dont understand how you could climb indoors day after day and not get stupidly bored
Recent accidents dont help, one in particular has upset quite a few Avon climbers I know, myself included. However I love climbing in the gorge, the general style of climbing is a learned art but once you have the knack its lovely climbing. Theres all styles too, adventure slabs on main wall, safe steady wall climbing on suspension bridge, steep clip up jug pulling on the ramp etc
I know many many people that just go to Bloc or whatever and have no interest in climbing outside. I dont understand it personally, its a shame I think. They dont understand that climbing indoors is a last resort and is only training. I dont understand how you could climb indoors day after day and not get stupidly bored
5
1
In reply to beardy mike:
Cheddar multipitch trad gets me gripped. I always thought Coronation Street was a bumbly route until I did it....
Cheddar multipitch trad gets me gripped. I always thought Coronation Street was a bumbly route until I did it....
1
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
A friend and I went to try Tremorgans which hadn't had an ascent in years. I was gripped seconding it. Again, whilst climbing the upper pitches of Genesis whilst stripping off huge sheets of ivy to get to rock beneath, I really didn't think I'd make it. So fear comes in different levels! That said, routes like Corrie are full on, but mainly because of exposure - quite different to Avon...
A friend and I went to try Tremorgans which hadn't had an ascent in years. I was gripped seconding it. Again, whilst climbing the upper pitches of Genesis whilst stripping off huge sheets of ivy to get to rock beneath, I really didn't think I'd make it. So fear comes in different levels! That said, routes like Corrie are full on, but mainly because of exposure - quite different to Avon...
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
Last time I parked in the gorge...my car now has big dent in the bonnet from stone thrown by some kid off the top. Same kids threw a surprise water bottle at me whilst I was perched on edge with my back turned (nice opening conversation!) which bounced over & nearly hit others below. Time before that someone tried to throw themselves off instead.
There's some great routes in Avon, but I'm not going back. Just don't want to deal with all that (plus noise) when I go climbing.
Last time I parked in the gorge...my car now has big dent in the bonnet from stone thrown by some kid off the top. Same kids threw a surprise water bottle at me whilst I was perched on edge with my back turned (nice opening conversation!) which bounced over & nearly hit others below. Time before that someone tried to throw themselves off instead.
There's some great routes in Avon, but I'm not going back. Just don't want to deal with all that (plus noise) when I go climbing.
In reply to olliebristol:
Fair enough. I think you are unlucky, I have never experienced that and I have climbed almost every starred route E2 and under in Avon over many many visits. Seen plenty of commotion to do with jumpers mind unfortunately, though only when I have been cycling past
Fair enough. I think you are unlucky, I have never experienced that and I have climbed almost every starred route E2 and under in Avon over many many visits. Seen plenty of commotion to do with jumpers mind unfortunately, though only when I have been cycling past
In reply to badgerjockey:
Personally I'm put off by the proximity of the road, the parking and the traffic in the city centre. The Lower Wye Valley is quiet and easy to get to by car in comparison
Personally I'm put off by the proximity of the road, the parking and the traffic in the city centre. The Lower Wye Valley is quiet and easy to get to by car in comparison
1
In reply to badgerjockey:
I like to boulder along the traverse at new quarry when I've got an hour or so spare. The bolted routes there are often being climbed even when the whole of sea walls is empty. More sports climbers basically. I always stay in Bristol over bank holiday weekends. I often find we've got the classics to ourselves while everyone else is in traffic jams getting to/from cornwall/wales/pembroke etc.
I like to boulder along the traverse at new quarry when I've got an hour or so spare. The bolted routes there are often being climbed even when the whole of sea walls is empty. More sports climbers basically. I always stay in Bristol over bank holiday weekends. I often find we've got the classics to ourselves while everyone else is in traffic jams getting to/from cornwall/wales/pembroke etc.
3
In reply to badgerjockey:
I love Avon and have only been climbing there on and off for three years but would agree it's seemed quiet recently. I popped down Saturday evening to play with the Shunt on Sea Walls and there were no other climbers in the gorge as far as I could tell on the drive in and back.
I then suffered nitrous oxide canisters being lobbed off the top of the crag whilst on a route and had to ab off and race up on foot to deliver a thorough b*llocking! Second time in a month I have seen things thrown off that particular section unfortunately.
Despite this I think the variety of climbing in the gorge and potential for adventure is amazing to have on my doorstep and I have found the new guidebook very inspiring. I have really enjoyed reading up on the rich history of climbing in Avon. Some people seem very averse to the climbing there but my ticklist for the gorge keeps getting longer!
I love Avon and have only been climbing there on and off for three years but would agree it's seemed quiet recently. I popped down Saturday evening to play with the Shunt on Sea Walls and there were no other climbers in the gorge as far as I could tell on the drive in and back.
I then suffered nitrous oxide canisters being lobbed off the top of the crag whilst on a route and had to ab off and race up on foot to deliver a thorough b*llocking! Second time in a month I have seen things thrown off that particular section unfortunately.
Despite this I think the variety of climbing in the gorge and potential for adventure is amazing to have on my doorstep and I have found the new guidebook very inspiring. I have really enjoyed reading up on the rich history of climbing in Avon. Some people seem very averse to the climbing there but my ticklist for the gorge keeps getting longer!
6
In reply to badgerjockey:
I never made it to Avon Gorge when I lived in London. I think it was the reputation for polish and traffic that put me off the most. Wintours Leap was always more attractive due to its scenery and quieter location.
I never made it to Avon Gorge when I lived in London. I think it was the reputation for polish and traffic that put me off the most. Wintours Leap was always more attractive due to its scenery and quieter location.
In reply to badgerjockey:
It does seem odd that with four indoor bouldering and climbing venues doing a roaring trade in Bristol the Gorge should not see a corresponding rise in traffic. I think this just reflects the fact that some people go to the 'climbing gym' as a fun alternative to the regular gym. Some of these people will have no inclination in heading outdoors but you would have thought that some would get the bug.
As for the confirmed climbers - the Gorge is great for Bristol locals who need a hit after work, or who only have a couple of hours. If I had all day I'd head for somewhere a bit more scenic though. Having said that last time I climbed there I topped out on the stupendous final pitch of Giant's Cave Buttress, surely a 3 star pitch, to a view of the Suspension Bridge bathed in evening light with barrages of hot air balloons floating over with the hum of the Gorge Hotel's beer garden in the air. As my log book says: "Topped out to balloons, sunshine and beautiful view of the bridge. Avontastic.".
Great to see a thread about Avon by the way, thanks OP : )
It does seem odd that with four indoor bouldering and climbing venues doing a roaring trade in Bristol the Gorge should not see a corresponding rise in traffic. I think this just reflects the fact that some people go to the 'climbing gym' as a fun alternative to the regular gym. Some of these people will have no inclination in heading outdoors but you would have thought that some would get the bug.
As for the confirmed climbers - the Gorge is great for Bristol locals who need a hit after work, or who only have a couple of hours. If I had all day I'd head for somewhere a bit more scenic though. Having said that last time I climbed there I topped out on the stupendous final pitch of Giant's Cave Buttress, surely a 3 star pitch, to a view of the Suspension Bridge bathed in evening light with barrages of hot air balloons floating over with the hum of the Gorge Hotel's beer garden in the air. As my log book says: "Topped out to balloons, sunshine and beautiful view of the bridge. Avontastic.".
Great to see a thread about Avon by the way, thanks OP : )
7
In reply to badgerjockey:
After many years of doing trad in the Gorge, I had had enough of polish, often poor protection and traffic noise. The Avon Gorge revival project does not seem to have revived it. The recent activity of replacing like for like with pegs where possible and with nothing has had little impact as far as I can see. In contrast, the sport routes in New Quarry get lots of traffic. I have a couple of routes to tick there and when I have I won't be back to New Quarry either.
If Avon Gorge stays as it is, it will never come back into fashion and routes will vegetate. I would like to see the Avon mixed trad and sport approach look more like the Cheddar version, i.e. with a shift in the balance towards more sport climbs. That would still leave bold trad routes for those who want them (as it is in Cheddar), but also get more people using the crag. As it is, it feels like a waste with loads of rock not getting climbed.
It would be good to not be insulted for this view along the lines of not liking thinking, using feet, handling runouts etc. I have served my trad apprenticehip over 28 years up to a reasonable way into the E grades.
After many years of doing trad in the Gorge, I had had enough of polish, often poor protection and traffic noise. The Avon Gorge revival project does not seem to have revived it. The recent activity of replacing like for like with pegs where possible and with nothing has had little impact as far as I can see. In contrast, the sport routes in New Quarry get lots of traffic. I have a couple of routes to tick there and when I have I won't be back to New Quarry either.
If Avon Gorge stays as it is, it will never come back into fashion and routes will vegetate. I would like to see the Avon mixed trad and sport approach look more like the Cheddar version, i.e. with a shift in the balance towards more sport climbs. That would still leave bold trad routes for those who want them (as it is in Cheddar), but also get more people using the crag. As it is, it feels like a waste with loads of rock not getting climbed.
It would be good to not be insulted for this view along the lines of not liking thinking, using feet, handling runouts etc. I have served my trad apprenticehip over 28 years up to a reasonable way into the E grades.
20
4
In reply to ericinbristol:
I think the issue with changing it to a more sports based venue is pretty well exemplified at Cheddar, namely that the sport routes are climbed intensively, leaving them polished, and the trad is more or less ignored, becoming even more vegitated than it was before. It's really rare you see people trad climbing at Cheddar, despite the fact that there are utterly awesome routes there. I mean think of routes like Crow which get maybe 2 ascents per season, or brain biter, Burma Road, Utopia, Sullenberger, Tremorgans, Megalomania, Consolation - some of these routes don't even have a long approach but they are neglected. It's a real shame, and they would be rubbish sport routes. So what to do? By contrast Avon is more compact so lends itself maybe more to sport climbing, but does that justify it?
I think the issue with changing it to a more sports based venue is pretty well exemplified at Cheddar, namely that the sport routes are climbed intensively, leaving them polished, and the trad is more or less ignored, becoming even more vegitated than it was before. It's really rare you see people trad climbing at Cheddar, despite the fact that there are utterly awesome routes there. I mean think of routes like Crow which get maybe 2 ascents per season, or brain biter, Burma Road, Utopia, Sullenberger, Tremorgans, Megalomania, Consolation - some of these routes don't even have a long approach but they are neglected. It's a real shame, and they would be rubbish sport routes. So what to do? By contrast Avon is more compact so lends itself maybe more to sport climbing, but does that justify it?
4
In reply to badgerjockey:
I've only lived in Bristol since October, but this summer I have frequently been surprised at how deserted the gorge is. Especially when the indoor walls are regularly heaving sweatboxes!
The climbing at Avon certainly seems to be in an unforgiving style. Generally vertical or overhanging, supremely technical and insecure feeling, and demanding a very cerebral approach to protection. I wouldn't go so far as to imply that the people who shy away from Avon are somehow inferior climbers, however, as there are definitely other factors: the traffic noise, the vegetation and dirtiness, and the sometimes uninspiring scenery (e.g. graffiti at the bottom of Sea Walls). Despite all that I've really enjoyed my forays into the gorge so far. It can be intimidating, but the climbing is very rewarding. Of course, it helps that it's 10 minutes from where I live.
I for one would be very willing to put some time into cleaning up the crag, particularly removing vegetation etc. Particularly on Suspension Bridge Buttress, which is overgrown but would be easy to clear up. I noticed on the BMC local areas page that there had been a crag cleanup in 2016 but couldn't see one more recently or in the future.
I've only lived in Bristol since October, but this summer I have frequently been surprised at how deserted the gorge is. Especially when the indoor walls are regularly heaving sweatboxes!
The climbing at Avon certainly seems to be in an unforgiving style. Generally vertical or overhanging, supremely technical and insecure feeling, and demanding a very cerebral approach to protection. I wouldn't go so far as to imply that the people who shy away from Avon are somehow inferior climbers, however, as there are definitely other factors: the traffic noise, the vegetation and dirtiness, and the sometimes uninspiring scenery (e.g. graffiti at the bottom of Sea Walls). Despite all that I've really enjoyed my forays into the gorge so far. It can be intimidating, but the climbing is very rewarding. Of course, it helps that it's 10 minutes from where I live.
I for one would be very willing to put some time into cleaning up the crag, particularly removing vegetation etc. Particularly on Suspension Bridge Buttress, which is overgrown but would be easy to clear up. I noticed on the BMC local areas page that there had been a crag cleanup in 2016 but couldn't see one more recently or in the future.
2
In reply to beardy mike:
It is true that routes being climbed more will polish them. In wanting more sport in Avon I accept that is an inevitable corollary and I see it as better than the alternative, which is the situation at present - mostly deserted and vegetating. To me, this situation does justify a shift in emphasis towards sport, which is not the same as bolting up the great, popular trad routes (or the great, rarely done but important to preserve hard trad challenges - and working out which ones these are would be through careful consultation just like in Cheddar).
On Cheddar - as a pretty obsessive all-year-round Cheddar climber for a lot of years now (ericincheddar would be a fair username for me) my sense of it is that you are mistaken in thinking that the trad in Cheddar is more or less ignored and becoming more vegetated. If anything, the opposite is the case. The mixed ethic has facilitated re-cleaning and reviving trad routes. I know loads of people who go out and do a mix of trad and sport in the same session in Cheddar. The routes you name are all harder ones and I don't think they are getting fewer ascents now - they didn't get that many anyway, and my sense of the easier routes is similarly unchanged or increased in trad traffic (e.g. Jill). Also I am not suggesting that these good trad routes be turned into sport climbs - same with Simba, Try to Remember, Fossil, Consenting Adults, Dinner Date, Get Kimitri! - all fab trad routes that I have done and would not want to be bolted. I really don't have the impression that the rise of sport in Cheddar has caused a decline of trad in Cheddar.
It is true that routes being climbed more will polish them. In wanting more sport in Avon I accept that is an inevitable corollary and I see it as better than the alternative, which is the situation at present - mostly deserted and vegetating. To me, this situation does justify a shift in emphasis towards sport, which is not the same as bolting up the great, popular trad routes (or the great, rarely done but important to preserve hard trad challenges - and working out which ones these are would be through careful consultation just like in Cheddar).
On Cheddar - as a pretty obsessive all-year-round Cheddar climber for a lot of years now (ericincheddar would be a fair username for me) my sense of it is that you are mistaken in thinking that the trad in Cheddar is more or less ignored and becoming more vegetated. If anything, the opposite is the case. The mixed ethic has facilitated re-cleaning and reviving trad routes. I know loads of people who go out and do a mix of trad and sport in the same session in Cheddar. The routes you name are all harder ones and I don't think they are getting fewer ascents now - they didn't get that many anyway, and my sense of the easier routes is similarly unchanged or increased in trad traffic (e.g. Jill). Also I am not suggesting that these good trad routes be turned into sport climbs - same with Simba, Try to Remember, Fossil, Consenting Adults, Dinner Date, Get Kimitri! - all fab trad routes that I have done and would not want to be bolted. I really don't have the impression that the rise of sport in Cheddar has caused a decline of trad in Cheddar.
Post edited at 21:57
5
1
In reply to alexm198:
Agreed - I have had plenty of great trad times in the Gorge and especially on Suspension Bridge Buttress. Nice offer re removing vegetation etc. The periodic cleanups have not had any impact on reviving climbing in the Gorge though.
Agreed - I have had plenty of great trad times in the Gorge and especially on Suspension Bridge Buttress. Nice offer re removing vegetation etc. The periodic cleanups have not had any impact on reviving climbing in the Gorge though.
In reply to alexm198:
I'd be very willing to do some clearing and gardening too. I'm handy with plant ID and know my spiked speedwell from my red valerian etc. as well.
I'd say the periodic cleanups have had some impact - think north wall of SBB, at least for me it did... It's just that, from memory, there has only been one scrub bash per winter.
There is likely to be continued willingness to help with this out there so I think I'll get in touch with the ClimbBristol team and see what's what.
In reply to ericinbristol:
The bolting issue is, I assume, something which will have been perennially discussed at BMCSW meets. I can't make my mind up whether it would be a good or bad thing though. Does the inherent rock instability of many routes not negate some of the safety gains of bolting? It would be a shame to see more routes polished into oblivion, but if only relatively harder routes were bolted then this could help to mitigate it. I totally get what you say about Cheddar and I think the mix of sport and trad is at the heart of why there are always healthy numbers of climbers there and the good atmosphere, in spite of the noise from the road and the complex access regime (Avon doesn't get the noise of mobs of overweight Harley riders giving it beans up the gorge like at Cheddar! Really does my head in...! Apologies to bikers...). If Cheddar manages to pull climbing crowds then no reason why Avon shouldn't with some judicious bolt policymaking. Avon is just as spectacular and on the edge of a city! Ok, there are starred sport routes on the west side but they don't get huge amounts of traffic, but that's down to the walk in and the ticks surely.
Must the historical significance and ethic of every single climb at Avon be preserved in aspic as some sort of museum? I see the justification for this for many routes but not all. Especially if bugger all people per year get the enjoyment of doing them, or if they succumb to vegetation...
I guess, inevitably we are at the mercy of the landowners as well and the influence of the council. I am sure ClimbBristol and BMC have been through all these discussions before but I think it's good to keep speaking up - people obviously care about climbing there. Does anyone know if members of the ClimbBristol or BMCSW team post here?
I'd be very willing to do some clearing and gardening too. I'm handy with plant ID and know my spiked speedwell from my red valerian etc. as well.
I'd say the periodic cleanups have had some impact - think north wall of SBB, at least for me it did... It's just that, from memory, there has only been one scrub bash per winter.
There is likely to be continued willingness to help with this out there so I think I'll get in touch with the ClimbBristol team and see what's what.
In reply to ericinbristol:
The bolting issue is, I assume, something which will have been perennially discussed at BMCSW meets. I can't make my mind up whether it would be a good or bad thing though. Does the inherent rock instability of many routes not negate some of the safety gains of bolting? It would be a shame to see more routes polished into oblivion, but if only relatively harder routes were bolted then this could help to mitigate it. I totally get what you say about Cheddar and I think the mix of sport and trad is at the heart of why there are always healthy numbers of climbers there and the good atmosphere, in spite of the noise from the road and the complex access regime (Avon doesn't get the noise of mobs of overweight Harley riders giving it beans up the gorge like at Cheddar! Really does my head in...! Apologies to bikers...). If Cheddar manages to pull climbing crowds then no reason why Avon shouldn't with some judicious bolt policymaking. Avon is just as spectacular and on the edge of a city! Ok, there are starred sport routes on the west side but they don't get huge amounts of traffic, but that's down to the walk in and the ticks surely.
Must the historical significance and ethic of every single climb at Avon be preserved in aspic as some sort of museum? I see the justification for this for many routes but not all. Especially if bugger all people per year get the enjoyment of doing them, or if they succumb to vegetation...
I guess, inevitably we are at the mercy of the landowners as well and the influence of the council. I am sure ClimbBristol and BMC have been through all these discussions before but I think it's good to keep speaking up - people obviously care about climbing there. Does anyone know if members of the ClimbBristol or BMCSW team post here?
Post edited at 23:25
1
In reply to alexm198:
>Generally vertical or overhanging.
Really?? I'd have said generally slabby.
jcm
>Generally vertical or overhanging.
Really?? I'd have said generally slabby.
jcm
In reply to ericinbristol:
>The routes you name are all harder ones
Eh? Consolation's a classic E1 FFS!
jcm
>The routes you name are all harder ones
Eh? Consolation's a classic E1 FFS!
jcm
In reply to ericinbristol:
I would love to see a revival of Avon trad through replacing pegs with bolts. Not a like for like basis but rather to preserve the character of the route. I can think of so many routes that should probably be stripped of all their pegs. Others which could have a few crucial pegs replaced with bolts. It certainly wouldn't make the sport routes but it would make them better trad routes and probably more in line with the style the first ascentionist used before their pegs rotted to shite. I think it would also provide a more sustainable style of climbing.
Also...I don't think Avon is that polished!
I would love to see a revival of Avon trad through replacing pegs with bolts. Not a like for like basis but rather to preserve the character of the route. I can think of so many routes that should probably be stripped of all their pegs. Others which could have a few crucial pegs replaced with bolts. It certainly wouldn't make the sport routes but it would make them better trad routes and probably more in line with the style the first ascentionist used before their pegs rotted to shite. I think it would also provide a more sustainable style of climbing.
Also...I don't think Avon is that polished!
5
2
In reply to ericinbristol:
My impression of cheddar going back to 1996 when I arrived at uni is that it had been as popular as Avon was and that my arrival more or less coincided with it's decline. Access was always the issue. After foot and mouth with no access and rock descaling which left no access for 2 years, many of the classics were buried, some seemingly for good. The restoration sorted that or so I thought. Yes some of the trad gets climbed but not nearly as much as the roadside trad. I guess my point is that it has improved but no where near as much as the sport and not close to previous levels. Just take the long sport routes which have equally difficult access to some of the routes mentioned. Sullenberger for example is a cracker and gets maybe 4-5 ascents a year. Meanwhile in the season castles and stone cold fever might get that number in a sunny week.
My impression of cheddar going back to 1996 when I arrived at uni is that it had been as popular as Avon was and that my arrival more or less coincided with it's decline. Access was always the issue. After foot and mouth with no access and rock descaling which left no access for 2 years, many of the classics were buried, some seemingly for good. The restoration sorted that or so I thought. Yes some of the trad gets climbed but not nearly as much as the roadside trad. I guess my point is that it has improved but no where near as much as the sport and not close to previous levels. Just take the long sport routes which have equally difficult access to some of the routes mentioned. Sullenberger for example is a cracker and gets maybe 4-5 ascents a year. Meanwhile in the season castles and stone cold fever might get that number in a sunny week.
In reply to badgerjockey:
Avon Gorge doesn't get very good press, however I think it is a great crag, with loads going for it. I have climbed there for over 30 years, it must be one of the most easily accessible crags in the country. Car to rock in 2 minutes, and car to pub in 2 minutes, perfect! There are 5 distinct crags, with a grade and type of climbing to suit almost everyone. It has scale, big multi pitch spectacular adventures, fierce single pitch stuff on the Ramp, easier single pitch elsewhere, plus bolt clipping in the Quarry.
The easier routes can be polished, there is also some great quality limestone, some looseness, not much though. Sure, it can be noisy, however when you are actually climbing that all fades away as you concentrate on the bubble you are in, the next few feet of holds and gear placements (?!)....the gear is what you expect for the grades and guidebook descriptions....I could see an argument for some routes being turned into sport routes, something like Magic Theatre would probably get a lot of traffic if it was bolted.....
There probably are less climbers now, as there is more competition from indoor walls, sport climbing and bouldering....that goes for most crags......and it is true that someone cruising 7a indoors can fall apart on 5b / 5c trad in the Gorge....
All in all, I would encourage anyone to visit and get on some routes, they would be pleasantly surprised...go for it !!...
Avon Gorge doesn't get very good press, however I think it is a great crag, with loads going for it. I have climbed there for over 30 years, it must be one of the most easily accessible crags in the country. Car to rock in 2 minutes, and car to pub in 2 minutes, perfect! There are 5 distinct crags, with a grade and type of climbing to suit almost everyone. It has scale, big multi pitch spectacular adventures, fierce single pitch stuff on the Ramp, easier single pitch elsewhere, plus bolt clipping in the Quarry.
The easier routes can be polished, there is also some great quality limestone, some looseness, not much though. Sure, it can be noisy, however when you are actually climbing that all fades away as you concentrate on the bubble you are in, the next few feet of holds and gear placements (?!)....the gear is what you expect for the grades and guidebook descriptions....I could see an argument for some routes being turned into sport routes, something like Magic Theatre would probably get a lot of traffic if it was bolted.....
There probably are less climbers now, as there is more competition from indoor walls, sport climbing and bouldering....that goes for most crags......and it is true that someone cruising 7a indoors can fall apart on 5b / 5c trad in the Gorge....
All in all, I would encourage anyone to visit and get on some routes, they would be pleasantly surprised...go for it !!...
5
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
You are an intelligent and interesting poster to UKC. I don't get your tendency towards gratuitous aggressiveness.
In terms of my statement that the routes named were all harder ones and your aggressive response re Consolation at E1, the fact is that E1 is harder than the average trad grade logged on UKC, which is HS or MVS. So I am fine with harder. Clearly not hardest but I didn't say that.
I would be interested to know what you think of my overall point.
You are an intelligent and interesting poster to UKC. I don't get your tendency towards gratuitous aggressiveness.
In terms of my statement that the routes named were all harder ones and your aggressive response re Consolation at E1, the fact is that E1 is harder than the average trad grade logged on UKC, which is HS or MVS. So I am fine with harder. Clearly not hardest but I didn't say that.
I would be interested to know what you think of my overall point.
Post edited at 10:43
4
In reply to beardy mike:
Some fair points in there (access a problem, foot and mouth a problem, Sullenberger getting far fewer ascents than Stone Cold Fever). I don't think any of them is evidence that the rise of sport in Cheddar has caused a decline of trad there. My sense of it is that more sport ascents have led to a slight increase in trad ascents, and also that Cheddar provides a preferable model to the one operating in Avon.
Some fair points in there (access a problem, foot and mouth a problem, Sullenberger getting far fewer ascents than Stone Cold Fever). I don't think any of them is evidence that the rise of sport in Cheddar has caused a decline of trad there. My sense of it is that more sport ascents have led to a slight increase in trad ascents, and also that Cheddar provides a preferable model to the one operating in Avon.
In reply to badgerjockey:
Lots to agree with there.
In answer to your specific point: "Does the inherent rock instability of many routes not negate some of the safety gains of bolting?" - in some cases yes but in plenty no. Certainly not an insurmountable problem in many cases. The same is true of Cheddar - loads of patches of rock instability there.
I agree that these things have been discussed before, and the outcome has been the current policy which, for the reasons I have given, I think on balance has more downsides than upsides.
Lots to agree with there.
In answer to your specific point: "Does the inherent rock instability of many routes not negate some of the safety gains of bolting?" - in some cases yes but in plenty no. Certainly not an insurmountable problem in many cases. The same is true of Cheddar - loads of patches of rock instability there.
I agree that these things have been discussed before, and the outcome has been the current policy which, for the reasons I have given, I think on balance has more downsides than upsides.
1
2
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Perhaps you know the gorge better than I do - after all, as I said above I've only started climbing there this summer.
Main Area is slabby, sure, but that's not where the real classic routes are. Surely the gorge is famed for routes like Yellow Edge (E3 5c), Arms Race (E4 5c), Malbogies (HVS 5a) and Peryl (E4 6a), which are all - at least in my book - intricate wall climbs or steep, sport-style lines?
Perhaps you know the gorge better than I do - after all, as I said above I've only started climbing there this summer.
Main Area is slabby, sure, but that's not where the real classic routes are. Surely the gorge is famed for routes like Yellow Edge (E3 5c), Arms Race (E4 5c), Malbogies (HVS 5a) and Peryl (E4 6a), which are all - at least in my book - intricate wall climbs or steep, sport-style lines?
In reply to ericinbristol:
I wouldn't normally be as rude as this but do you think that improving your on-sight grade may help you judge these things better?
> Lots to agree with there.... I agree that these things have been discussed before, and the outcome has been the current policy which, for the reasons I have given, I think on balance has more downsides than upsides.
I wouldn't normally be as rude as this but do you think that improving your on-sight grade may help you judge these things better?
1
5
In reply to Mike Highbury:
That's not rude. It's a reasonable question. My response is that views are valid across the range of on sight grade levels and that it should be a conversation across those levels. I don't think that being able on sight harder necessarily improves judgement on the issue.
That's not rude. It's a reasonable question. My response is that views are valid across the range of on sight grade levels and that it should be a conversation across those levels. I don't think that being able on sight harder necessarily improves judgement on the issue.
4
In reply to ericinbristol:
This is what you get for mentioning bolts Eric you should know better! One day I will drag you back to Avon and set you off up Krapps for punishment for mentioning bolts on UKC haha.
So long as the starred routes are left alone I don't really mind personally, although I think I would prefer them to stay as they are. I certainly don't have any strong feelings about the no star routes. Plenty of bolts cropping up on belays and replacing old 8mm horrors which is nice.
This is what you get for mentioning bolts Eric you should know better! One day I will drag you back to Avon and set you off up Krapps for punishment for mentioning bolts on UKC haha.
So long as the starred routes are left alone I don't really mind personally, although I think I would prefer them to stay as they are. I certainly don't have any strong feelings about the no star routes. Plenty of bolts cropping up on belays and replacing old 8mm horrors which is nice.
Post edited at 12:32
2
In reply to alexm198:
Arms Race is the sportiest and most conventional of the routes you've listed.
Whilst some walls at Avon may look quite steep, many of the routes I've done there have managed to climb in a distinctly un-steep manner via precarious bridging on sloping footholds. The end result is that you can often get off your arms and 'relax' in a generally highly un-relaxing and un-nerving environment. I remember praying for a flat hold/ledge to stand on whilst doing Krapp's Last Tape (E3 5b), but alas I did not get one.
Yellow Edge is also about as trad as they come, with climbing more reminiscent of Gogarth than most of Gogarth - it's wild!!
Arms Race is the sportiest and most conventional of the routes you've listed.
Whilst some walls at Avon may look quite steep, many of the routes I've done there have managed to climb in a distinctly un-steep manner via precarious bridging on sloping footholds. The end result is that you can often get off your arms and 'relax' in a generally highly un-relaxing and un-nerving environment. I remember praying for a flat hold/ledge to stand on whilst doing Krapp's Last Tape (E3 5b), but alas I did not get one.
Yellow Edge is also about as trad as they come, with climbing more reminiscent of Gogarth than most of Gogarth - it's wild!!
1
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
Krapps is for me, the definition of the Avon slabby cool headed style. Quality
Krapps is for me, the definition of the Avon slabby cool headed style. Quality
1
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
I think I have got off very lightly mate! Yes, I saw you had ticked that - nice one! Yes, staying off the starred trad would be a bare minimum requirement.
I think I have got off very lightly mate! Yes, I saw you had ticked that - nice one! Yes, staying off the starred trad would be a bare minimum requirement.
2
2
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
I see you have only seconded Yellow Edge - time to get on the lead Cheese old chap!
I see you have only seconded Yellow Edge - time to get on the lead Cheese old chap!
In reply to ericinbristol:
If you go back though, sport climbing represented the minority of climbs before the restoration project, ergo at some point trad was a more popular passtime in Cheddar than sport was and there are hundreds of routes in various states of deteriation, usually far worse than at Avon which never are climbed and have no prospect of ever being cleaned. My point is that Cheddars fate has to some extent been the same as Avon, namely that the rise of sport climbing and indoor climbing has led towards a lower acceptance of risk and namely a reduced number of trad climbers - I'm talking historically speaking looking back to the eighties and ninties. Don't get me wrong, I don't really bemoan the rise of sport climbing, I've come to enjoy it as a different sport to trad climbing. It just really saddens that Cheddar trad is for the most part dying. I know you disagree that that is the case, but just look at the size of the old guide book - I still have two copies and they are jam packed with lines. Seemingly with improved access, those lines have now been consigned to the history books which is a great shame. I personally worry that more widespread bolting in Avon would lead to the same. The thing which is indeniable is that with the bolting of Cheddar, many routes have become less serious, escape easier and the aura completely changed - I remember it being with great foreboding that you would get to cheddar and get involved in some huge epic... these days a bolted abseil is never far away to give you reassurance...
If you go back though, sport climbing represented the minority of climbs before the restoration project, ergo at some point trad was a more popular passtime in Cheddar than sport was and there are hundreds of routes in various states of deteriation, usually far worse than at Avon which never are climbed and have no prospect of ever being cleaned. My point is that Cheddars fate has to some extent been the same as Avon, namely that the rise of sport climbing and indoor climbing has led towards a lower acceptance of risk and namely a reduced number of trad climbers - I'm talking historically speaking looking back to the eighties and ninties. Don't get me wrong, I don't really bemoan the rise of sport climbing, I've come to enjoy it as a different sport to trad climbing. It just really saddens that Cheddar trad is for the most part dying. I know you disagree that that is the case, but just look at the size of the old guide book - I still have two copies and they are jam packed with lines. Seemingly with improved access, those lines have now been consigned to the history books which is a great shame. I personally worry that more widespread bolting in Avon would lead to the same. The thing which is indeniable is that with the bolting of Cheddar, many routes have become less serious, escape easier and the aura completely changed - I remember it being with great foreboding that you would get to cheddar and get involved in some huge epic... these days a bolted abseil is never far away to give you reassurance...
2
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
I've not done Arms Race but I wasn't trying to make the point that the climbing in Avon is sporty jug hauling (though looking at my previous post I didn't really make that clear) and for what it's worth I am absolutely not undermining their place as 'trad' routes or - God forbid - arguing that bolts should be placed. I was really just making the point that a lot of the routes - as you say - appear to be steep face climbs, and I can definitely understand why beginner climbers would stand at the bottom of them and shit themselves. I certainly have...
From my limited experience of Avon climbing I would agree with you that it's often possible to make these steeper routes feel less strenuous with some cunning footwork, but I don't think that warrants calling Avon a 'slabby' venue, as John did.
As for Yellow Edge, very Gogarthy! I had to remind myself I wasn't on the second pitch of Mousetrap when climbing that awkward groove at the top!
I've not done Arms Race but I wasn't trying to make the point that the climbing in Avon is sporty jug hauling (though looking at my previous post I didn't really make that clear) and for what it's worth I am absolutely not undermining their place as 'trad' routes or - God forbid - arguing that bolts should be placed. I was really just making the point that a lot of the routes - as you say - appear to be steep face climbs, and I can definitely understand why beginner climbers would stand at the bottom of them and shit themselves. I certainly have...
From my limited experience of Avon climbing I would agree with you that it's often possible to make these steeper routes feel less strenuous with some cunning footwork, but I don't think that warrants calling Avon a 'slabby' venue, as John did.
As for Yellow Edge, very Gogarthy! I had to remind myself I wasn't on the second pitch of Mousetrap when climbing that awkward groove at the top!
2
In reply to badgerjockey:
Yep. Been climbing down in Avon Gorge for nearly 20 years.
Last night, introducing a friend to trad climbing (and climbing as a whole) and he's loving it.
Apart from one other party, we had all of Sea Walls and Main Area to ourselves.
It seems a little more green this year. Other than that, it's quality routes on the door step IMHO.
Yep. Been climbing down in Avon Gorge for nearly 20 years.
Last night, introducing a friend to trad climbing (and climbing as a whole) and he's loving it.
Apart from one other party, we had all of Sea Walls and Main Area to ourselves.
It seems a little more green this year. Other than that, it's quality routes on the door step IMHO.
1
1
In reply to beardy mike:
Again, lots to agree with (Cheddar is a lot less scary a place in some places than it used to be due to bolting) and on various bits where we disagree, you may be right. However, on my central point I think that where we are now in Avon is that lots of it has already been consigned to the history books and the Avon Gorge Revival Project has failed to revive it overall (local flurries like North Buttress notwithstanding). Bolting agreed no star routes (and if appropriate putting up some new starred bolted lines) wouldn't obviously make it worse and might do the opposite. In the end, we don't know for sure.
Again, lots to agree with (Cheddar is a lot less scary a place in some places than it used to be due to bolting) and on various bits where we disagree, you may be right. However, on my central point I think that where we are now in Avon is that lots of it has already been consigned to the history books and the Avon Gorge Revival Project has failed to revive it overall (local flurries like North Buttress notwithstanding). Bolting agreed no star routes (and if appropriate putting up some new starred bolted lines) wouldn't obviously make it worse and might do the opposite. In the end, we don't know for sure.
Post edited at 14:10
In reply to ericinbristol:
I think this is a great example of how a little bolting would improve this route. The second pitch is in it's on right e2 5b (?) you move off the belay and clip the mankiest ring peg in Avon. And then make a long run traverse with no gear and the peg is the only thing stopping a factor 2 fall onto the belay. I think by replacing that shit peg (it may even be a drilled peg) with a bolt. You would still keep the very exciting run out and very much preserve the character of the pitch, but remove the very dangerous factor 2 fall...it's also a totally class route!
> Yup, Yellow Edge is amazing and should always be trad!
I think this is a great example of how a little bolting would improve this route. The second pitch is in it's on right e2 5b (?) you move off the belay and clip the mankiest ring peg in Avon. And then make a long run traverse with no gear and the peg is the only thing stopping a factor 2 fall onto the belay. I think by replacing that shit peg (it may even be a drilled peg) with a bolt. You would still keep the very exciting run out and very much preserve the character of the pitch, but remove the very dangerous factor 2 fall...it's also a totally class route!
2
6
In reply to Kemics:
Having led that pitch I would say leave it alone. I didn't trust the peg at all but was still happy to lead the pitch (a bit of evidence that I am not just a wussy bolt-clipper I guess).
Having led that pitch I would say leave it alone. I didn't trust the peg at all but was still happy to lead the pitch (a bit of evidence that I am not just a wussy bolt-clipper I guess).
Post edited at 14:56
4
2
In reply to Kemics:
I tend to agree, especially wheredrilled pegs are concerned that they should be replaced with a proper long lasting bolt, and also in positions where there has traditionally been a peg in a seam which is no longer available because it's filled with rotting mank and there is no longer room for a peg. Quite apart from anything else rotting gear can considerably up the danger factor for no good reason other than a supposed regard for ethics. I am certainly of the mind that the American version of trad is a reasonable model to follow, that you place bolts on lead, only where you can stand in balance and where no other gear exists now or in the foreseeable future. I gues I'd also not be opposed to wider bolting in contained areas and on specified routes - I certainly wouldn't want to determine which ones those would be for fear of the trad police giving me the chop Anyway, all of this is I fear a moot point as I doubt it'll happen!
I tend to agree, especially wheredrilled pegs are concerned that they should be replaced with a proper long lasting bolt, and also in positions where there has traditionally been a peg in a seam which is no longer available because it's filled with rotting mank and there is no longer room for a peg. Quite apart from anything else rotting gear can considerably up the danger factor for no good reason other than a supposed regard for ethics. I am certainly of the mind that the American version of trad is a reasonable model to follow, that you place bolts on lead, only where you can stand in balance and where no other gear exists now or in the foreseeable future. I gues I'd also not be opposed to wider bolting in contained areas and on specified routes - I certainly wouldn't want to determine which ones those would be for fear of the trad police giving me the chop Anyway, all of this is I fear a moot point as I doubt it'll happen!
2
In reply to beardy mike:
Just goes to show the nuances in this - you'd be happy to have the Yellow Edge P2 peg replaced with a bolt whereas I'd be happy to run it out and just assume the peg was unreliable. But I see the argument the other way too. I'm more inclined towards bolts when the belay is unsafe.
Re this 'I'd also not be opposed to wider bolting in contained areas and on specified routes' - looks like we agree on that.
Just goes to show the nuances in this - you'd be happy to have the Yellow Edge P2 peg replaced with a bolt whereas I'd be happy to run it out and just assume the peg was unreliable. But I see the argument the other way too. I'm more inclined towards bolts when the belay is unsafe.
Re this 'I'd also not be opposed to wider bolting in contained areas and on specified routes' - looks like we agree on that.
2
In reply to ericinbristol:
Bolting on the belays is, for me, the main thing I'd like to see if bolting ever happened at Avon... Some of them are awful.
Bolting on the belays is, for me, the main thing I'd like to see if bolting ever happened at Avon... Some of them are awful.
2
1
In reply to Kemics:
If you have some very thin extension slings there are some good threads on that traverse, you have to look carefully though, makes it relatively safe, wouldn't like to do it without....
If you have some very thin extension slings there are some good threads on that traverse, you have to look carefully though, makes it relatively safe, wouldn't like to do it without....
1
In reply to ericinbristol:
Obviously.
Good grief, that wasn't aggressive. You should see me when I'm aggressive.
jcm
> You are an intelligent and interesting poster to UKC.
Obviously.
> I don't get your tendency towards gratuitous aggressiveness.
Good grief, that wasn't aggressive. You should see me when I'm aggressive.
jcm
4
12
9
In reply to badgerjockey:
The sea walls were actually pretty busy yesterday evening. One soloist and at least 4 roped parties.
I saw the head torch of someone climbing over in Leigh Woods in the dark later on too.
The sea walls were actually pretty busy yesterday evening. One soloist and at least 4 roped parties.
I saw the head torch of someone climbing over in Leigh Woods in the dark later on too.
Post edited at 15:28
2
In reply to badgerjockey:
I was up at the upper tier the other day. I wonder if the routes along here have bolted belays.
I think it would be good to top out here but bushes prevent egress. Anyway I suppose it is better not to clear the greenery here. I love the gorge having climbed here since a kid. I'll put in a vote for bolts on the routes that are poorly protected.
Pete
I was up at the upper tier the other day. I wonder if the routes along here have bolted belays.
I think it would be good to top out here but bushes prevent egress. Anyway I suppose it is better not to clear the greenery here. I love the gorge having climbed here since a kid. I'll put in a vote for bolts on the routes that are poorly protected.
Pete
1
In reply to badgerjockey:
I bought the New Avon guide about a month ago, but haven't been once yet!
I counted the no. of vs-hvs, found 50 in the 1st 200 pages, and a improvement to about 100 in the 2nd 200 pages... conclusion... this is a place for harder trad climbing... from what i hear pro isn't great + often run out too, so i'm keeping away!
Only joking! I'm keen for Avon, just got more southern priorities until i move to Bristol in Autumn, but think it will feature more regularly in next yrs climbing, starting with the safest stuff, possibly ending there too!
Sport climbing = 5 - 10 routes in a short day.
Trad climbing = 2 - 3 routes in a long day.
I bought the New Avon guide about a month ago, but haven't been once yet!
I counted the no. of vs-hvs, found 50 in the 1st 200 pages, and a improvement to about 100 in the 2nd 200 pages... conclusion... this is a place for harder trad climbing... from what i hear pro isn't great + often run out too, so i'm keeping away!
Only joking! I'm keen for Avon, just got more southern priorities until i move to Bristol in Autumn, but think it will feature more regularly in next yrs climbing, starting with the safest stuff, possibly ending there too!
Sport climbing = 5 - 10 routes in a short day.
Trad climbing = 2 - 3 routes in a long day.
Post edited at 13:55
1
3
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
2-3? I did 17 trad routes at Shorn Cliff in 9 hours
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=517700&v=1#x7003112
2-3? I did 17 trad routes at Shorn Cliff in 9 hours
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=517700&v=1#x7003112
4
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
I usually work on around 1 pitch per hour for Trad climbing, give or take depending on the faff.
For sports you can often both lead 1 route in 30 minutes, so around 2 routes an hour. Of course if you climb sports a lot you will end up Redpointing and then you can spend hours on the same route...
Last Saturday we did 8 Trad pitches in a long day (4 before lunch and 4 after)
I usually work on around 1 pitch per hour for Trad climbing, give or take depending on the faff.
For sports you can often both lead 1 route in 30 minutes, so around 2 routes an hour. Of course if you climb sports a lot you will end up Redpointing and then you can spend hours on the same route...
Last Saturday we did 8 Trad pitches in a long day (4 before lunch and 4 after)
In reply to badgerjockey:
Well well, looks like I may have to eat my words. Today was the busiest I've seen the gorge in ages. Probably 8-9 teams all around mid afternoon. Even one team on main wall would you believe. Good on ya!
Well well, looks like I may have to eat my words. Today was the busiest I've seen the gorge in ages. Probably 8-9 teams all around mid afternoon. Even one team on main wall would you believe. Good on ya!
4
In reply to springfall2008:
+ eric...
Are these your average climbing days though! ? . Admittedly, i am slow, scared, go up + down a few times at the crux b4 cracking it, and am climbing at my current trad limit. I should theoretically be able to push it up a grade or 2 at trad, but just getting a feel for it still.
No doubt at some short crag i could do maybe 5, but Subliminal is shortish, + i still only got 3 done.
Obviously repeats and grades you can cruise without worrying too much about gear will allow more routes per day.
On multi-pitch i am still learning to set up a good belay b4 the 2nd sets off.
At Avon, i'll be happy to do 1 or 2 trad a day!
+ eric...
Are these your average climbing days though! ? . Admittedly, i am slow, scared, go up + down a few times at the crux b4 cracking it, and am climbing at my current trad limit. I should theoretically be able to push it up a grade or 2 at trad, but just getting a feel for it still.
No doubt at some short crag i could do maybe 5, but Subliminal is shortish, + i still only got 3 done.
Obviously repeats and grades you can cruise without worrying too much about gear will allow more routes per day.
On multi-pitch i am still learning to set up a good belay b4 the 2nd sets off.
At Avon, i'll be happy to do 1 or 2 trad a day!
Post edited at 21:09
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
No - not an average day at all - that was my most ever in a day. Didn't mean it to come across as a put down, sorry. How many a day I do varies a lot depending on how close to my limit, multiptich, long pitch(es), ease of access and descent etc
No - not an average day at all - that was my most ever in a day. Didn't mean it to come across as a put down, sorry. How many a day I do varies a lot depending on how close to my limit, multiptich, long pitch(es), ease of access and descent etc
1
In reply to ericinbristol:
Ha! That's going some, with the walk in/out too
Don't think I've ever done more than 8 there.
> 2-3? I did 17 trad routes at Shorn Cliff in 9 hours
Ha! That's going some, with the walk in/out too
Don't think I've ever done more than 8 there.
2
In reply to badgerjockey:
Interesting. How many of those were on the sport routes in the New Quarry?
Interesting. How many of those were on the sport routes in the New Quarry?
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
For me one an hour is assuming it's at a grade you can climb without too many difficulities.. that said I feel at least for me on HVS if I don't climb it at a reasonable speed I'm going to pump out anyhow
For me one an hour is assuming it's at a grade you can climb without too many difficulities.. that said I feel at least for me on HVS if I don't climb it at a reasonable speed I'm going to pump out anyhow
In reply to bpmclimb:
Cheers. Yes, going pretty well. I am sure going out with a plan/system and aiming to do lots of routes made all the difference. We didn't turn up for a normal day's cragging. It was great fun.
Cheers. Yes, going pretty well. I am sure going out with a plan/system and aiming to do lots of routes made all the difference. We didn't turn up for a normal day's cragging. It was great fun.
In reply to ericinbristol:
Likewise, have done 21 pitches at Dewerstone in a day - we were going for it on routes up to VS but still. And have in the past done Giants cave Buttress, Piton Route, Central rib and Gronk on a winters day. As I say, it depends on how fast you climb, how efficient you are at placing gear, whether you know the route well, how geed up you are... I have used Avon and the Wye as a place to practice fro the Dolomites for years and used to regularly clock 400m of climbing in a day.
Likewise, have done 21 pitches at Dewerstone in a day - we were going for it on routes up to VS but still. And have in the past done Giants cave Buttress, Piton Route, Central rib and Gronk on a winters day. As I say, it depends on how fast you climb, how efficient you are at placing gear, whether you know the route well, how geed up you are... I have used Avon and the Wye as a place to practice fro the Dolomites for years and used to regularly clock 400m of climbing in a day.
3
In reply to beardy mike:
Pretty similar then. When we got to 17 pitches there was plenty of the day left but we were happy stopping there. The 17 pitches totalled 335 metres. Good fun for sure.
Pretty similar then. When we got to 17 pitches there was plenty of the day left but we were happy stopping there. The 17 pitches totalled 335 metres. Good fun for sure.
In reply to ericinbristol:
Planning to do 30 pitches in the gorge on my upcoming 30th...going to be interesting!
Planning to do 30 pitches in the gorge on my upcoming 30th...going to be interesting!
3
In reply to Rob Morgan:
Excellent! Please post info beforehand about how you plan to do it then post about how it went - I am sure lots of people would be keen to hear about it.
Here's what I posted before and after about my session at Shorn Cliff https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=517700&v=1#x7003112
Excellent! Please post info beforehand about how you plan to do it then post about how it went - I am sure lots of people would be keen to hear about it.
Here's what I posted before and after about my session at Shorn Cliff https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=517700&v=1#x7003112
1
1
In reply to davidbeynon:
Haha, that's not a bad idea Dave.
Thanks Eric, it won't be anything as hardcore as your Shorncliff day, that sounds amazing. I'll be sure to post an update. Hardest routes will probably be VS (going to try and incorporate the Avon VS challenge into it). We will likely run some pitches together but count them as they appear in the book.
Haha, that's not a bad idea Dave.
Thanks Eric, it won't be anything as hardcore as your Shorncliff day, that sounds amazing. I'll be sure to post an update. Hardest routes will probably be VS (going to try and incorporate the Avon VS challenge into it). We will likely run some pitches together but count them as they appear in the book.
In reply to davidbeynon:
Years ago a couple of mates got bored at Stanage so did Flying Buttress in ten pitches. Don't think any of the belays were hanging though.
> Just set up hanging belays every couple of meters on morpheus
Years ago a couple of mates got bored at Stanage so did Flying Buttress in ten pitches. Don't think any of the belays were hanging though.
2
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
I think it's climb all the following 2/3 star VS's in the Gorge in a day. Unknown Wall, Gronk, Clarion, Piton Route and Giants Cave Buttress
http://climbbristol.com/vs-challenge-dave-talbot/
I think it's climb all the following 2/3 star VS's in the Gorge in a day. Unknown Wall, Gronk, Clarion, Piton Route and Giants Cave Buttress
http://climbbristol.com/vs-challenge-dave-talbot/
Post edited at 23:37
2
In reply to Rob Morgan:
Woop woop! On Monday did my 1st 4 Avon routes, (7 pitches) , in......
about 8hrs!... It's an improvement..... Last 2 (routes) were quite sporty
Woop woop! On Monday did my 1st 4 Avon routes, (7 pitches) , in......
about 8hrs!... It's an improvement..... Last 2 (routes) were quite sporty
Post edited at 20:24
In reply to ericinbristol:
Piton route.. ok, pretty polished but mainly on p1, gear was ok, hard to judge fear factor on stuff below yr limit, but i didn't clip some pegs as they seemed a bit high in the horizontal crack of GCR, or perhaps i'm getting confused. 2*
Great central route, awkward, plenty good pro, at crux... Cam, runner, peg! Awkward finding right way around the overhang but good holds, easy to step down + rest under it, Run out after but good holds. Nice top pitch a little odd finding the way through / traverse accross that hang. 2.5*
Suspense... Excellent, 4*, good pro, exciting, sustained mid section could get pumped there, a few threads, i missed some, had a rubbish small cam, actually i was worried about some of my pro but not on the most difficult climbing. pretty good holds all the way, not hard 5a but hard hvs.
Suspension bridge buttress arete... Like Suspense, easier, 2 or 3*, did it with all gear in, in 13 mins, after lowering partner off as getting close to dusk.
Top day of climbing , bar the traffic noise, but that's quieter at SBB.
Piton route.. ok, pretty polished but mainly on p1, gear was ok, hard to judge fear factor on stuff below yr limit, but i didn't clip some pegs as they seemed a bit high in the horizontal crack of GCR, or perhaps i'm getting confused. 2*
Great central route, awkward, plenty good pro, at crux... Cam, runner, peg! Awkward finding right way around the overhang but good holds, easy to step down + rest under it, Run out after but good holds. Nice top pitch a little odd finding the way through / traverse accross that hang. 2.5*
Suspense... Excellent, 4*, good pro, exciting, sustained mid section could get pumped there, a few threads, i missed some, had a rubbish small cam, actually i was worried about some of my pro but not on the most difficult climbing. pretty good holds all the way, not hard 5a but hard hvs.
Suspension bridge buttress arete... Like Suspense, easier, 2 or 3*, did it with all gear in, in 13 mins, after lowering partner off as getting close to dusk.
Top day of climbing , bar the traffic noise, but that's quieter at SBB.
2
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
Good work, some great routes there. Suspense was my first HVS lead I think, loved it.
Good work, some great routes there. Suspense was my first HVS lead I think, loved it.
1
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
Nice session! Hell Gates should definitely be next in your list - outstanding. And just a notch harder also outstanding are Baby Duck, Limbo, Earl of Perth and Howard - all fab, all on Suspension Bridge Buttress and none particularly polished.
Nice session! Hell Gates should definitely be next in your list - outstanding. And just a notch harder also outstanding are Baby Duck, Limbo, Earl of Perth and Howard - all fab, all on Suspension Bridge Buttress and none particularly polished.
2
In reply to ericinbristol:
Looking forward to trying these too now... do you think this would be the right order for increasing difficulty?.... I've read most ukc comments!
Suspension Bridge Arete.... HVS 5a
Suspense.... HVS 5a
Hell Gates.... HVS 5a
How hard.... low to mid E1 5b
Limbo.... mid E1 5b, 4b peeps often omit p2 + traverse left to finish at suspense belay
Baby Duck.... E1 5b, pumpy, sustained mid section
The Earl of Perth.... E1 5b, 5a,..Technical crux, well protected, then run out, sustained 2nd 5a pitch, often done as 1 pitch. could b loose in parts.
What do you think would be the easiest E2 on the SBB, and elsewhere Avon Gorge?
Looking forward to trying these too now... do you think this would be the right order for increasing difficulty?.... I've read most ukc comments!
Suspension Bridge Arete.... HVS 5a
Suspense.... HVS 5a
Hell Gates.... HVS 5a
How hard.... low to mid E1 5b
Limbo.... mid E1 5b, 4b peeps often omit p2 + traverse left to finish at suspense belay
Baby Duck.... E1 5b, pumpy, sustained mid section
The Earl of Perth.... E1 5b, 5a,..Technical crux, well protected, then run out, sustained 2nd 5a pitch, often done as 1 pitch. could b loose in parts.
What do you think would be the easiest E2 on the SBB, and elsewhere Avon Gorge?
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
Don't know about the easiest but Ffoegs folly pitch 2 is a total classic. Ultra Avony climbing with balancy technical faceclimbing giving way to some hero moves to reach the belay.
Don't know about the easiest but Ffoegs folly pitch 2 is a total classic. Ultra Avony climbing with balancy technical faceclimbing giving way to some hero moves to reach the belay.
1
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
I would say that the ascending order of difficulty is
Suspension Bridge Arete.... HVS 5a
Suspense.... HVS 5a
Hell Gates.... HVS 5a
Howhard - steady at E1 5b
Baby Duck - Strenuous but loads of gear all the way
Limbo - Less strenuous that Baby Duck but with a more committing feel. So, easier that BD if you are bolder, harder than BD if you are fitter!
The Earl of Perth.... E1 5b, 5a - Bomber gear below the crux move but if you come off the crux the fall will be a nasty swinging slam: don't fall off at the crux. Yes a bit run out after that and yes to doing it as one great pitch.
Re E2s on SBB I'd go for Oblivion. I've not done Beginnings but mates who have say mid E2. I wouldn't say start with New Horizons II on Sea Wall as it is relatively tough (or so I thought many years ago) - same with Ffoeg's Folly. I am rather out of touch with the current state of Avon E2s.
I would say that the ascending order of difficulty is
Suspension Bridge Arete.... HVS 5a
Suspense.... HVS 5a
Hell Gates.... HVS 5a
Howhard - steady at E1 5b
Baby Duck - Strenuous but loads of gear all the way
Limbo - Less strenuous that Baby Duck but with a more committing feel. So, easier that BD if you are bolder, harder than BD if you are fitter!
The Earl of Perth.... E1 5b, 5a - Bomber gear below the crux move but if you come off the crux the fall will be a nasty swinging slam: don't fall off at the crux. Yes a bit run out after that and yes to doing it as one great pitch.
Re E2s on SBB I'd go for Oblivion. I've not done Beginnings but mates who have say mid E2. I wouldn't say start with New Horizons II on Sea Wall as it is relatively tough (or so I thought many years ago) - same with Ffoeg's Folly. I am rather out of touch with the current state of Avon E2s.
1
In reply to ericinbristol:
Completed the challenge on Monday 31st Here is a write-up I did for the AMC:
https://www.avon-mc.org.uk/2017/08/30-pitches-gorge/
Completed the challenge on Monday 31st Here is a write-up I did for the AMC:
https://www.avon-mc.org.uk/2017/08/30-pitches-gorge/
9
1
1
2
2
In reply to davidbeynon:
I thought you dropping those bottles down was a thoughtful way to give us a more authentic experience.
I thought you dropping those bottles down was a thoughtful way to give us a more authentic experience.
1
2
In reply to Michael Hood:
It's from a suunto ambit 3 using the altimeter, the graph is on the movescout website.
It's from a suunto ambit 3 using the altimeter, the graph is on the movescout website.
In reply to Rob Morgan:
Top work! Thanks for the info on the birth of Action Jib. Time to start training for 40 in 40?
Top work! Thanks for the info on the birth of Action Jib. Time to start training for 40 in 40?
2
In reply to Bobling:
I love the action jib origin story.
This one might be next! Got a few years to train, might not get the prize by then though:
https://www.theclimbingacademy.com/blog/bristol/wye-valley-salathe-challeng...
A challenge at 50...might be a tricky one...
I love the action jib origin story.
This one might be next! Got a few years to train, might not get the prize by then though:
https://www.theclimbingacademy.com/blog/bristol/wye-valley-salathe-challeng...
A challenge at 50...might be a tricky one...
In reply to Rob Morgan:
I'm thinking along the lines of a 500m route for my 50th. Would a set of girdle traverses at Avon count?
I'm thinking along the lines of a 500m route for my 50th. Would a set of girdle traverses at Avon count?
1
In reply to davidbeynon:
Sounds good. I've done hot air/chasing the dragon which is a bit mad. Also did a new route that traverse rhs of sea walls. Done gurgle girdle on main area too and that e1 traverse on sbb. Hoping to do the equator this year! Oh and maltravers and malwhatsit but they don't really count. See how many you can do in a day lol
Sounds good. I've done hot air/chasing the dragon which is a bit mad. Also did a new route that traverse rhs of sea walls. Done gurgle girdle on main area too and that e1 traverse on sbb. Hoping to do the equator this year! Oh and maltravers and malwhatsit but they don't really count. See how many you can do in a day lol
Post edited at 10:45
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
Did Gurgle Girdle today as part of 400m of climbing. It was great fun.
We were aiming to do 450, but mashed feet and a preference for watching balloons take off stopped us.
Did Gurgle Girdle today as part of 400m of climbing. It was great fun.
We were aiming to do 450, but mashed feet and a preference for watching balloons take off stopped us.
3
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...