UKC

Our local wall has told us that we're not allowed our 3 month-old on the matting (in a car seat).

Of course I get the risk here which is why we go at times when the wall is _very_ quiet and exercise care when & where we put her down.

The logistics of the wall mean options are very limited keeping her off matting and in-sight so now we're unable to climb unless we are both there to take turns. Tricky given our schedules (a single-parent would have no chance!).

Anoither blow to trying to stay in shape (tough enough with no sleep & no time!)...

I can see how this is hard for a wall to write firm-rules around but I would have expected some discretion and judgement given I am a long-term customer and experienced climber.

Anyone else experienced the same problem? Or any wall staff care to comment on how they would handle this?

In reply to quiffhanger:

Seems pretty reasonable by the climbing wall to be fair ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 

3 months old, probably old enough to do a paper round whilst your out climbing ? 

In reply to ALF_BELF:

3 months? Should be down t'mine.

Hmmm. Frustrating but I can probably see where they are coming from. Is there a training area or woody where you can have the baby off the mat and still do stuff? That's what I manage at the hangar in Plymouth. The moon board is quite easy to be on with the little one off the mats.

That said, the hangar is absolutely the most baby welcoming place (wall or otherwise) that we have been to so far. 

In reply to quiffhanger:

It seems sensible to me to be honest...all sorts of potential for someone to land on or trip over a car seat and injure them or the baby. I expect the wall's insurance would have a fit. I'd look fairly askance at it if I was climbing there unless there is an usually large amount of matting space clear of the walls. 

Can't you just take turns to watch the baby while you are resting ? That's still a pretty awesome modus operandi...my son is almost 2 and I still haven't taken him to the wall once because my wife isn't interested.

In reply to quiffhanger:

I'm with the general consensus here I'm afraid: obvious hazard on the mat, they're right.

In reply to quiffhanger:

Just say you took your eye of baby for 2 seconds and I took a dodgy fall and ended up falling on baby/carrier and hurt it. Who's fault would that be?? As a parent you'd be livid at me for hurting your child. On the flip side it's your fault. Not worth the angst.

In reply to quiffhanger:

If there nowhere out the way you can put the car seat or a buggy, but within sight? That's what we did, should be no reason you can't take a 3mo to the wall, much safer than  when they begin to crawl or toddle about.

In reply to quiffhanger:

Quite aside from the consensus view that a baby in a plastic seat on the mating is a safety hazard and at risk, car seats are not intended to be used to restrain a youngling as a matter of course beyond car journeys - too long in a car seat is bad for their physical development.  

Unless you and your partner are absolute beasts I’d have thought you can take turns climbing and recovering whilst guarding the child off the matting.  If you can’t make that level of sacrifice now you’re in for one hell of a shock in a year or two’s time.

Edit: Re-read your post and see that you’re not always going to the wall together.  Personally I wouldn’t have been happy leaving a new born unattended even off the matting whilst climbing - they’re just too vulnerable if a clumsy kid or whatever piles in to them.  It’s tough winding back “me time” activities and even tougher staying fit for sure, but I’m with the wall on this one.

In reply to wintertree:

It's fine when we r both there it's climbing alone that's the hard bit.

Car seat aside (I'm aware of the risk but a couple hours a week is not going to cause problems when the wall is a 10min drive away) when there's only  a handful of people at the wall I'd just like to see some discretion (the risk really is very manageable if you're sensible). Better for her to grow up in an active environment imo.

I guess it'll all change anyway when she starts crawling.

In reply to quiffhanger:

Can you attach the car seat to your buggy? I don't like leaving ours in car seat on the floor, just feels too risky with people/children/dogs or whatever not looking where they're going/falling. Leaving him on the buggy but in sight feels pretty chilled. 

In reply to quiffhanger:

How exactly is the risk manageable while you are climbing?  

What if other people don't want a baby underneath them on the matting?  

2 hours in a car seat isn't at all good for a baby.  It's not just the breathing, it's bad for development of joints and muscles.  It is a very unnatural position.  

Sorry but I think you are being selfish.  

Allow the couple to get some rouIn reply to quiffhanger:

It’s not easy but a few things along the way that may help, I won’t bother with the kids on the matts thing 

a portable play pen for when they are crawling, good for bouldering and wall.

a hang board and set of dumbbells/bands in the kitchen, I manage to squeeze a fairly intensive session into the time it takes to prepare a pan of rice.

my daughter 13 who climbs has been asked to do some cragside babysitting, she won’t be left entirely alone with the child but it will allow the couple to get some sports routes bouldering done together and my daughter gets some pocket money, and a chance to climb with other people and the child gets exposure to the outside win win

people tripping over your child isn’t the only the only danger, someone landing on the matts can catapult a young person a surprising distance,  something my kids loved in a controlled manor

Good luck with finding climbing/adult time it’s important just be flexible about it

Also one of my best climbing moments was when my daughter flashed a problem that a group of has been trying.

Getting my ass handed to me publicly by a 13 year old girl is one of my proudest climbing moments, parenting it changes your perspective

In reply to quiffhanger:

I'd have some concerns about the amount of chalk dust at climbing walls for a baby to be exposed to. A very quick search shows at least one source showing that dust particulate levels at climbing walls can be comparable to some industrial environments.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18449402

In reply to quiffhanger:

Another vote for the wall I'm afraid

In reply to quiffhanger:

Well I'm clearly in the minority here, but I think the OP is getting a lot of undeserved stick.

They are not suggesting leaving their baby on the matting at a busy, or even slightly busy wall.  They are merely suggesting that the wall management might be more flexible during *very* quiet times, and I really can't see the problem if there is nobody climbing near the baby.  

As for concerns about the car seat, why is two hours at the climbing wall worse for the child than two hours on a car journey, particularly as the wall is only a ten minute drive from their house?  I would argue that a baby's well-being is much better served by healthy, well-adjusted and unstressed parents.

Of course I do have to admit some bias.  We took both our babies to walls (in car seats).  They are both now in their 20s, happy, healthy, and both keen climbers themselves.

In reply to DerwentDiluted:

I said exactly this on a similar thread some years ago and got shouted down as some sort of nanny state Daily Mail reader!

Haven't taken either of mine to a climbing wall yet, but they're ready for it now and I'm digging my kiddy harnesses.

In reply to quiffhanger:

It's very simple. The rubber matting is one of the risk control measures the climbing wall have told their insurer they are doing. This prevents a faller landing on a hard floor.

To allow a car seat, buggy or whatever to be on the rubber mat defeats the object and ultimately deviates from the risk assessment which would null the insurance.

You wouldn't question why a fitness gym, golf driving range, swimming pool, squash court etc wouldn't allow a baby in a buggy to be in the same area.

In reply to quiffhanger:

It’s not an “active environment” for the person strapped to the chair.

In reply to quiffhanger:

A couple of years ago a young couple used to bring their young baby to the climbing wall where we climbed.  I was always very impressed with how they managed to keep the child quiet and content whilst still enjoying a good climbing session.  They just took it in turns to have a bit of bouldering by themselves.  Tbh that kid was probably one of the best behaved people at the wall.

i know walls have even tried having climbing crèches but not sure how successfully.  Have you tried to get a bunch of parents with young kids together to broach the subject?

Personally I would be amazed if a wall let a kid in a car seat anywhere near the mats.

In reply to heleno:

Let's say this is permitted, it's a "*very* quiet time at the wall, maybe there are only 7 people bouldering, spread across the whole climbing area. 
I come to the wall to start working a specific problem, a bridging route in a corner. 
There's a baby in a car seat there. I look around and see a few other climbers including two couples both working hard on boulder problems, very focused, one of each pair spotting the other one cos it's hard. I'm waiting patiently and wondering which pair of strangers I need to approach and how and when to ask "is that your baby and would you mind moving it out of the way because despite the wall being *very* quiet, I want to work a problem in that specific corner where you have deposited a baby in a car seat please" (*)

Not awkward at all eh.

IANAL but I imagine liability contracts have tightened up since then. 


edit
* d'o.... like many others I have in the course of writing my post, forgotten the main thrust of the OP which is about a lone parent wanting to take the baby to the wall. 
So now I have to choose which random individual out of seven climbers, I have to ask about moving the child. 

In reply to heleno:

I cannot really speak for others but I think the stick that the OP is getting is more about tone and attitude than the specific requirement. There is an underlying tone of petulance and assumed privilege or "entitlement" in the OP (e.g. the comment at the end about how being an experienced climber should give more rights to break the wall's policy/rules). I am not saying this is from the OP's heart, maybe simply not very expressed. 

In reply to quiffhanger:

Not surprised by the wall's reactions, it is not really a safe environment especially in todays litigious enviroment.. ...

Even more so if it is a bouldering area.

In reply to heleno:

What happens when the "*very* quiet time" unexpectedly becomes NOT a "*very* quiet time" just 12 minutes after the OP has arrived with just the baby and is still warming up and then two rainy-day minibuses of Scouts or Guides from summer camp arrive all at once having had the climbing wall as "plan B" against the rained-off activity? Will the OP happily pick up the baby and leave the wall given that the agreed circumstances no longer apply?

In reply to quiffhanger:

No experience of climbing with kids or running a wall but with extensive experience running pubs my main concern would be the precedent set by allowing a kid in. The problem may not be you per se but the fact that the next person sees it or the person after that. Once the precedent is set its a constant argument with everyone who wants what the person before had but a little more/different/later/earlier/it's only a little busier  etc etc. Unless you can set an exact contract with the person that is watertight people will always push their luck.
It very soon becomes untenable so it just stops completely. I realise that a wall isn't a pub but people are people and tend to behave exactly the same regardless of situation (albeit maybe with less slurring)

In reply to quiffhanger:

Put a little harness on it, tie it in and call it a backup belayer

In reply to NaCl:

Yep, this is what I was alluding to with my comment about entitlement and also my (slightly passive-aggressive for which I apologise) theatrical quotation marks around "*very* quiet time" - I was implying that this description is rather subjective, and therefore meaningless. 

Maybe this thread is about more than one "baby"
No offence to the OP.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Aha, in that case delicately put my good sir. Apologies!

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Call it 'entitlement' or whatever u want. I was merely suggesting that discretion be used for people who understand the environment. We've all seen a beginner stand far too close to a climber unaware of how they could fall. They thus may not exercise good judgement with a kid.

On your first point about finding an abandoned kid in a corner: I am assuming you are not a parent or you'd realise that we are hard-wired to check up on our kids about 10 times a minute!

Overall I get it. Walls are highly regulated commercial spaces nowadays and a liable owner/manager is not going to risk their staff being complicit in an accident.

What has been more interesting are the private messages of support from mothers who have clearly been in similar situations but are unwilling to join the fray (not surprising when debates degrade into character assassination). Being a dad has unexpectedly opened my eyes to an unseen world of gender inequality.

In reply to quiffhanger:

Beginner!?  I was briefly tempted to hijack your thread* to whinge about the climbers, often very experienced climbers, who invariably sit down for a rest and sprawl all over the mats at my local wall.  (Which is the Climbing Works, sod it, no point being coy.)

It gets ludicrously overcrowded in there on winter and rainy weekday evenings, and there are a couple of proper bottlenecks as you move around.  Doesn't deter full-sized humans, groups of them sometimes, from taking up a *lot* of mat space.  And even when there is (just about) enough room, of course people are obliged to walk around them and then they are the ones coming too close. 

I don't get it.  They're intelligent people, have they no imagination?  If I land on them one or both of us is going to the hospital.  A big heavy lump like me - they (or I) might even end up with the kind of injuries one never fully recovers from.  I'm not shy about asking them to move but even when they're really nice about it it can be a bit intimidating and isn't an easy thing for a relative beginner to do.

By comparison to that, a baby in a baby carrier at a quiet time?  Not a problem at all.

Obviously, obviously, I'm assuming you're an attentive parent who is going to be more concerned about the baby's safety than I am, and that you're going to move the kid ASAP if the situation changes.  (Such as the sudden arrival of a coach party rained off a crag somewhere.)  What I don't understand is why on earth some of the posters above would assume otherwise!?

Yeah it's a shame the way the vibe here puts a lot of people off posting, women especially.  In a way it's heartening to hear that they're still reading the forum even if they're put off jumping in.  Catch-22 perhaps, I think if more did post this would be a nicer place.

I've met Blue in person and he's a good egg, really much nicer than you might occasionally be tempted to think from his posts on here. I'm sure the 'character assassination' you perceive is not intended as such, but it is ironic that he chose to lecture you about your supposed 'underlying tone of petulance' in such an excessively snarky post of his own.

*- Oops.  Sorry.  Looks like I've just done exactly that after all.

In reply to quiffhanger:

What has this got to do with an unseen world of gender inequality?  The fundamental issue is one of common sense/health and safety.  The centre are applying both common sense and abiding by sensible health and safety for all the reasons mentioned above.  Their approach will no doubt apply to anyone whether a mother or father.  At the climbing wall I most often frequent there are as many fathers with young children/babies as mothers so I fail to see the gender inequality.  I think what you are seeing is that having a baby changes your life, nothing to do with a whole world of gender inequality.  You now have an amazing new set of experiences in bringing a new life into the world but there will be inevitable sacrifices in other parts of your life.

What does surprise me is that the centre appears to only have matting everywhere.  At the two walls I go to there are plenty of areas off the mats but close to the climbing.  This allows mothers and fathers to come on their own and leave their young children/babies close to where they are climbing.  Obviously there are some areas that are too far away/out of sight of the babies but still plenty of climbing available.  In particular the training areas are amenable to babies being close. Perhaps you just need to compromise a bit and accept that your climbing might have to take a bit of a sacrifice for a while.

In reply to quiffhanger:

At no point did I assassinate your character. I stated that the way you have expressed your thoughts in the OP is easily open to negative interpretation, and that's a very different thing. I am sure you are a great guy. 

In reply to deepsoup:

The baby has not signed a liability disclaimer though  

In reply to planetmarshall:

At Redpoint in Bristol the babies tend to sit things out/get left on the ratty old chalk-infused sofa by the auto-belays. So by middle-age they'll probably all have come down with `climber's lung'. So works out the same in the end.

In reply to NaCl:

OOOOOooo I got a dislike!

Apparently this post was offensive to someone who needs to get out more.

I am so hurt

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Mine did!   Did not put her on the mats though assumed that’d be a no

In reply to quiffhanger:

This isn't  a gender issue. 

It would only be a  gender issue if it only or mostly happened to one gender.  Unless you are suggesting that Dads aren't important?   

I have no problem if you were to take one of the most sensible options given and get a teenager to look after the baby in the cafe while you climb.  

In reply to quiffhanger:

In this day and age it is unfortunate that discretion does not help in a litigious/health and safety  environment.

Nevertheless the world has moved on . In my time it was arguing with landlords about bringing babies into a pub ( 23 years ago) for a pub meal. I have still never forgiven one local pub. Now they are welcomed with open arms.

Now its a baby at a climbing wall.

In reply to quiffhanger:

Yes I was tempted just to PM you. But I decided to brave it out and got my all time record number of Dislikes (and counting). 

In reply to neilh:

Some pubs allow children and some don't. Is it too much to ask that people might want a child free environment to have a drink and a meal in peace sometimes?  

In reply to heleno:

For the record I have not clicked a dislike on any posts in this thread. I think I've only clicked that button three times in 2019 actually. 

I am really enjoying getting exactly one dislike for each post I put on this thread. It's hilarious

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I got two dislikes for my reply! Nothing controversial at all in it! 

There some very thin skinned people about!

In reply to WaterMonkey:

I saw that and also am taking pride in having quietly predicted to myself that my mention of dislikes would draw a load more in. Even more hilarious. 

In reply to NaCl:

No apology needed for agreeing with me and reaffirming what I was saying ! 

In reply to quiffhanger:

When your baby is a little older you’ll be able to strap it into an auto belay at Awesome Walls while you go climbing. This seems to be what many parents do on a Sunday Morning. 

In reply to Blue Straggler:

To reply to others RE: the matting. Wall isn't a great design for that - it's a long rectangle whereby the only wall near an unmatted area is a steep comp wall. Bit limiting if you've just had your core obliterated by a baby (my partner, not me, just to clarify!).

@DerwentDiluted RE: chalk. Whilst never the intention of the authors, studies on risks are rarely well understoon. Ever heard an overweight person telling you the wont cycle or walk in a city because it's too dangerous? If taking my daughter to the wall helps her get used to an active environment I'll take the risks until I see evidence that the harm outweighs that of leading an inactive life style.

@tjdodd
> What has this got to do with an unseen world of gender inequality?

Everything. If something/someone is not accomodating to someone looking after a kid it disproportionally affects women due to the simple fact females spend a lot more time looking after kids than males.

@Blue Straggler: it's not me disliking your posts! Maybe that wasn't the insuation (forgive me for feeling a little persecuted right now) but just to prove it wasn't me I now have - you'll notice they've all just gone up (or is that down?) by one

In reply to quiffhanger:

Strap the wee one on your back while you climb....problem solved

In reply to quiffhanger:

Exactly the same rules apply to long brushes, bags etc on mats as to your child so I can’t see why you need an exemption. It’s good to see that some walls provide facilities for your situation, eg the Depot at Sheffield 

In reply to quiffhanger:

To be fair, a lot of people post on this forum and a fair few have done in this thread. Regardless of how they do it, the majority of people disagreeing with you is going to feel like a tidal-wave of negativity. 

Whilst I agree that walls should be flexible especially towards people they know are sensible it's also reasonable to have a some red lines, especially where it comes to safety.

The matting serves two purposes, one to reduce the impact of a fall and two to designate an area where more attention is required as people are climbing overhead.

A baby in a car seat is at odds with both of these. It's a potentially a collision/trip hazard and it's unable move out of the way of things that may cause it harm. Therefore it makes sense to not allow this rule to be broken regardless of the circumstances. However, I'd expect a wall to do their best to tell you what would be possible and compliant rather than just saying 'no' (I'm not sure how they handled your query though). 

I'm not sure about the sexism point, I'd hope walls and UKC would respond the issue identically if you were a woman, but I'm not going to deny the general perception that women know how to take care of children better which may be feeding into the tone of the responses you have received. 

In reply to quiffhanger:

FFS.  You're doing a disservice to equality issues by ignorantly (willfully?) misunderstanding their basis.

Your original complaint has *nothing* to do with gender equality.  You outline a perspective that affects you and your partner equally.

Real gender equality issues are things like a materially lower rate of vaccinations of female babies than male - *that* is gender-perception shit that needs sorting; yours and your partner's bouldering session baby arrangements aren't, and to suggest otherwise is pretty crass.

In reply to quiffhanger:

I don’t think being a long term highly experienced customer is relevant: what is relevant is that you’re a customer, nothing more.

They’re not being unreasonable by imterpreting risk as they see fit.

It might be a pain for you, but that does not mean they are unreasonable.

Someone above suggested the wall should offer flexibility during quieter times. That’s staggeringly unrealistic. Clinbing walls need firm policies and can’t open themselves up to every request for flexibility from disgruntled customers.

In reply to quiffhanger:

This might be controversial, but I guarantee in 18 years you aren't going to be wistfully thinking, "you know what, those first years were shit, wish I'd spent more time climbing."

In reply to Quiffhanger:

It sounds like you are in a very similar position to us.  New baby, both keen to climb, etc.  But I think you have to be realstic about what you can do, and also what you want to do.  Surely you didn't have a baby so that you could just carry on with your old life as though nothing's happened? 

Going bouldering when you're both there works pretty well in our experience.  Just take it in turns and accept you'll do less.  But if it's your "shift", just you and the baby, I'm just not sure that going bouldering is a reasonable expectation.  There's plenty of things you can do (going for a walk, fingerboarding), but I just don't think bouldering's one of them.

As for the gender equality point, I think that is fairly demeaning to genuine gender equality issues.

In reply to neilh

23 years is a long time to hold a grudge. Perhaps it's time for you to move on, Neil?

No; it depends entirely on the establishment. Which is quite reasonable.

In reply to quiffhanger:

Thanks, appreciated. I never insinuate. For the record, despite what it might look like, I’ve not been on the attack on you. This is actually one of those good threads where the OP at first looks a bit daft but once they (i.e. you) come back to thread it’s clear that you’ve absorbed the responses despite many of them being a bit harsh, and looked at the situation from a different viewpoint. At least that is my interpretative speculation.

So, you have a massive life-changer going on right now and you are sleep deprived. So you climb a bit less for a couple of years. Not much in the grand scheme of things is it?  

Did you really not see this coming? Did you assume through the pregnancy that once the baby was old enough to sit upright in a baby seat, that without discussing it with them, the wall would let you take it in and place it on the mats? I’m not being snarky, it’s just that your OP looks like you’re surprised and disappointed at the refusal. 

In reply to quiffhanger:

Well judging by the replies on here it looks like I am going to have to say a massive thank you to my regular wall The Quay in Exeter, who have been extremely understanding in the last 11 months since my partner and I had a baby. And also to the hangar in Plymouth that we visited recently. Both of these venues must be unusually shaped compared to everybody else's wall, in that they appear to have spaces on the mats that are not directly under people who are climbing, or their belayers feet. The quay even has bean bags where people of any age can sit, socialise or , heaven forbid, place their young child while they do a couple of laps on the autobelays.

I think most of us realise that having kids is going to change our lives in some ways, but it doesn't mean that everything has to stop. With a bit of respect from all sides we can work it out. If you believe my child is in your way I have no problems with a polite request to move. I might even be civil back.

In reply to Dred:

Exactly what i was thinking. It's really not that hard to work out, is it?

The irony is taking a baby to the climbing  wall ought to be easy and safe. 

In reply to Dred:

I never alluded to the shape of my local wall and (as this one might have been directed at me) I never suggested or implied that “everything has to stop” 

Nor did I resort to coating most of my sentences in dripping sarcasm like you have done. 

In reply to Blue Straggler:

More than one! I've noticed that anyone who mentions dislikes always gets some dislikes. 

First rule of dislike club: No one mention dislike club!

In reply to Dred:

Placing a child in a specific rest area isn't the same as placing the child on matting related to climbing. 

I don't see why they can't take in a decent buggy, park it in the corner, the cafe or where ever they staff suggest. Child can lie flat properly. They climb when child sleeps, take turns and boulder when it wakes.

It requires compromise, as you are no doubt aware life changes with kids. Some activities aren't viable as a couple and you simply have to do shifts until they are a little older. Wait until they have two kids who want to do different activities in different places at the same time, then they'll see how challenging it can really get to have some me time.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

I invariably and automatically get dislikes anyway, even with the most innocuous posts: if I post something like "My favourite breakfast is a boiled egg" or "Cenotaph Corner is in Wales", I always get at least one dislike. Perhaps I've permanently upset one or more posters sometime in the past............

Or maybe the Internet is full of boiled egg and/or Cenotaph Corner haters

In reply to profitofdoom:

Perhaps they hate that it is in Wales!

In reply to profitofdoom:

(Sorry for the dislike, but you know... I had to!)

In reply to Rob Parsons:

One of life's great pleasures is holding a grudge for no reason at all, we all do it for some illogical reason.This one is mine...lol.

In reply to quiffhanger:

are there not lockers or something you can leave baby in?...

In reply to quiffhanger:

I'm firmly in the corner of "none bowlers off the green" or in our case anyone who isn't climbing or belaying should not be there.  This should be the default position but with common sense applied when appropriate to accommodate sensible, none dangerous exceptions.

In reply to JoshOvki:

That's OK, right, it had to be done!

In reply to GridNorth:

Doesn't that imply "all bowlers on the green"

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

No.

In reply to GridNorth:

Yes.

In reply to quiffhanger:

If you crack the window an inch or two, you can leave the baby in the car

In reply to quiffhanger:

Next week on UKC:

"My local climbing wall won't allow me to bring my dog in!!!!"

In reply to Gceorge:

Mine will

In reply to quiffhanger

It looks like your wall has made their policy and it's a shame that they have taken the easy option of  a blanket ban . I don't know the layout of your wall but wonder if there is an area,o of any fall zones that could be negotiated as a safe zone. People could also leave all the other trip hazards that they bring to the wall there too. Another option would be to organise a parent climber group. There's kids clubs,  ladies nights.  Easy to do through a fbook or wapp group. Arrangements could be made with the management that this group meets at set times when  is the wall is quietest. More punters for the wall at quiet times, more eyes spotting for parents and babies. Win win

In reply to heleno:

My parent's chain smoked around me all through my early childhood, and I didn't get cancer, but that is hardly an avocation for the practice surely?

In reply to Milesy:

One of my earliest memories is my dad giving me a toke of a fag when I was about 5. Good times

In reply to Phil79:

And mine...

In reply to Phil79:

Dogs can move themselves out of the way if someone is falling.  

In reply to marsbar:

Ah, but how would they know when someone is falling given that they can't look up?*

(* - I'm just being silly here, but you started it.)

In reply to deepsoup:

SDS.  

Special doggy sense.