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Backing up belay with unlinked bolts

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 bpmclimb 07 Feb 2020

Just wondered what methods people favour for quickly backing up one bolt to another - where you're running everything off one bolt, rather than using a sling/cordelette to equalise to a central loop.

I'm curious because I came by a cheap Grivel Vlad (combo crab/rigging plate), and I'm thinking of trying it on some big sport routes (2 climbers, block leading more often than not). It seems to me that the quickest and most convenient way to use it is simply to clip it to one bolt, run everything from that, and connect the two bolts (if there's no chain) for backup. 

I saw some pics of the Vlad used this way, but the backup was a dyneema sling clipped into the main compartment of the Vlad (i.e. next to the bolt hanger), which didn't look great, as it looked like the sling could get mashed by the edges of the bolt hanger if the Vlad was loaded. The other obvious solution is a second crab in the hanger, but I've heard some negative opinions about that.

 Iamgregp 07 Feb 2020
In reply to bpmclimb:

Would it not be easier to build an equalised anchor out of a sling, then clip then vlad to that and run everything from the vlad?

Or does that kind of defeat the point of having the vlad?

 SteveSBlake 07 Feb 2020
In reply to bpmclimb:

These posers are entertaining, given there are dozens of ways to secure a bolted belay with various combos of slings and crabs that are all safe enough.  I await with interest at least, say .......... 25, with reasons why their method is better than the last........

Steve

  

 Iamgregp 07 Feb 2020
In reply to SteveSBlake:

If we're lucky, it might even morph onto a good old "which belay device is the best?" thread!

 HeMa 07 Feb 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

Easy. For sport gen 1 Grigri. For half ropes, What ever ya fancy. 
 

as for the OP. One extra locker per climber and one extra QD. Biner on bolt and tie in, belay How ever ya wish. Extra QD to connect bolts. 2nd arrives and places their locker on the free bolt and ties in. Block leaders sorts out the gear unclips from the locker and takes it with him/her and starts climbing. 

adding one extra locker will make things even nicer, but not really needed. Lockers can be mostly replaced with QDs as well. 

 tehmarks 07 Feb 2020
In reply to bpmclimb:

Quickdraw between the bolts is my go-to, unless I have reason to be suspicious.

OP bpmclimb 07 Feb 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

> Or does that kind of defeat the point of having the vlad?

Well, partially. It's still a nice luxury to have a line of 3 independent anchor points, but with only 2 climbers I probably wouldn't bother carrying Vlad if my default procedure was an equalised power point with sling.

OP bpmclimb 07 Feb 2020
In reply to SteveSBlake:

> These posers are entertaining, given there are dozens of ways to secure a bolted belay with various combos of slings and crabs that are all safe enough.  I await with interest at least, say .......... 25, with reasons why their method is better than the last........

Well, I know that many climbers would just deploy a sling or QD in that scenario and not worry about the combination of a bit of slack and non-dynamic materials; but was interested to see if anyone was bothered by that, and would use something dynamic and/or adjustable.

J1234 07 Feb 2020
In reply to bpmclimb:

What the hell is that thing, a knuckle duster, it looks to go against my KISS rule, keep it simple stupid.

For bolted belays I use one of these https://www.climbers-shop.com/10905105/products/beal-dynaconnexion-40-80cm-...

Post edited at 17:56
1
OP bpmclimb 07 Feb 2020
In reply to David Coley:

Perfect! Thanks for the link

OP bpmclimb 07 Feb 2020
In reply to J1234:

> What the hell is that thing, a knuckle duster, it looks to go against my KISS rule, keep it simple stupid.

It's designed primarily to provide more attachment points to ease congestion of the belay in more complex belay situations (3 or more climbers, direct belays, hauling, etc), and as it's a single, light piece which potentially replaces  a small rigging plate plus multiple crabs, you could argue that it does follow your KISS rule. I don't need it with simple stances and two climbers, but I fancy trying it out because I've got it, and it's fancy and shiny and new

Yes, I've used those for years, both the single and the asymmetric double.

J1234 07 Feb 2020
In reply to bpmclimb:

>  but I fancy trying it out because I've got it, and it's fancy and shiny and new

I get that


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