UKC

To my shame I don't know much about Big Ron, but I always thought his routes were of the supermen-only-Lord-of-the-Flies variety. Having scraped up Stroll On (E3 6a) this weekend and realised it was one of his, I thought it might be nice to try and do some other of his routes, since apparently he did put up stuff for the rest of us. Any recommendations for quality routes by Ron that are below e3/e4? 

Following because this is relevant to my interests... I'll also do some research and report back.

Edit: just remembered Cave Route Right (7b+) and Sardine (7b+) these and other retro-bolted routes of fawcetts are probably the closest most of us will get. At 7b+ they aren't piss but are sport routes and an E4 climber should be able to get up them

Mulatto Wall (E3 5c)

Aladdinsane (E1 5a)

Ron's Crack II (f7A+)

The Dream/Liberator (E3 6a)

Vulcan (E4 6a)

Void (E4 6a)

Cream (E4 6a)

I don't think "most of us" can get up Cave Route Righthand! When I was just brushing the E4 level eons ago (at my best) I couldn't get more than about fifteen feet up CRR before running out of steam. (Mind you, that was before it was done free). It seemed mind-bogglingly strenuous.

Ahh sorry I meant modern E4 leaders. I can totally appreciate that most people climbing at the grade back in the day did so because they were much better at trad climbing nearer their limit and this was also usually on bolder slab/wall climbs rather than steep pumpy stuff. 

From observation the modern day climber is generally the other way around having the indoor walls and sport climbing to train on and they don't tend to climb at their physical limits on trad.

Edit: I'm talking about E4 onsighters and 7b+ Redpointing with modern tactics 

Time for someone to create a Big Ron ticklist?

'Big Ron Routes for Mortals' sounds like a good name for one.

Ron's Route (E3 6a), if you're ever in Youlgreave. Can't speak for the quality, but Rheinstor's a lovely little crag on a sunny afternoon. 

Remember Ron was climbing new routes from a young age so you can find his signature at some surprising grades, e.g. Inquisitor at Stoney!

Yosemite Wall @ Malham springs to mind... Old School E5 but now bolted to give one of the best F7a+'s in the UK... Should be doable and on any aspiring E3/4 leaders tick list!

Ooh! One tick on the list for me then.

I see that CRR was actually given a trad grade of E6. Are you saying that bolting a trad route lowers the old grade by about two trad grades?

I suppose, what you really mean is that trad grades are pretty meaningless for modern sport climbs/climbers.

I think I'm saying modern climbers are performing harder on sport compared to their trad grade now than in the past. This will be for many reasons including availability of indoor walls and a general decline in boldness. 

I'm by no means a sport climber but I can usually get myself up 7b+ within a few attempts. I've done a couple E4's but it's a big day when that happens and usually a bit of poo tries to come out.

Does that make me a precious millennial snowflake, or do we just get here different ways nowadays?

I liked it

There's a 'Ron's Route' at Warton Small Quarry I can speak for the quality ....

Much better, I think he did the FA of Moonchild (E4 6a) at Chapel Head

Just remembered he did Aladdinsane (E1 5a)at Trowbarrow too

Me too, it’s on my bouldering circuit. Actually, it’s a great crag

Hangman's Wall (E1 5b) at Deer Gallows (amongst others) from his early years. Most no doubt soloed in trainers!

Sardine was always bolted, but to put context to relative trad. leading between now and then, I remember on a Sat. in early 80,s cruising Bastille on High Tor and then the next day trying Sardine. Could barely do a move, but within a few months, adopting redpointing techniques we were climbing 7b+ and 7c when the top grade was 8a+.

Fuji (7a+)

He loves a grotty stoney quarry just like the rest of us

Moonchild has been retro'd for a while at 6c+ Moonchild (Sport) (6c+)

It's a great route and almost the last thing to wet out at Chapel head Scar.

Think about it. Firstly, the trad grade is for an onsight attempt, not for a redpoint. Secondly, the same route with bolts in is almost always going to be an easier proposition, and often a much much easier proposition, than when done on trad. Both of these mean that more climbers (i.e. not just those onsighting E6) will be able to consider the route as a viable proposition.

But I agree with you that despite having onsighted the odd E4, 7b+ is absolutely no chance for me. 7a+ redpoint is unlikely enough! 

Can such a polished route really be one of the best of its grade in the country?! Good luck to those E3 leaders...

I agree and get all of that. I think it is a fantastic how rock climbing technical difficulty has increased in the last 40 years, and amazing if your "normal" E4 leader really can get up a a very strenuous 7b+, like CRR, by whatever means (redpointing etc).

I think you're mainly just underestimating how much difference redpointing makes, John.

But I do agree that, say, cruising Rivelin's three E4s in a day (well, I know it has more, but I mean Auto da Fe, The Brush Off and I'm Back) is unlikely to get you up CRR. On the other hand being able to onsight, say, Wee Doris, Our Father and Pickpocket in a day may well do.

jcm

I think you are right. Although I have done a lot of sport-climbing, I have never redpointed as such, and I had not realised it made as much difference as this.

Cracking route, and very accessible at the grade. 

Andy F

Agreed it's a great route and darlton has a certain charm too. 

Compared to other routes at Malham, Yosemite Wall is barely affected by polish. And it's superb - an incredible line, great climbing, potential for some big swinging falls. It's easily the best 7a+ I've ever done.

What CP said... Honestly I don't recall much in the way of polish but I guess you become blind to it at Malham? Black for feet, white for hands! Just makes your footwork better  

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Ticklist is up now, get ticking! 

Struggling to find it. Where do I look?

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days as my experience is totally the opposite to yours. When I was climbing at my best I'd onsighted a few 7as and redpointed up to 7b+ (not CRR though) but I've never felt anywhere near leading E4. The best I ever managed was a handful of soft (literally in some cases - i.e. The Sind) E3s. Even seconding I'd tend to fall off E4s so it can't entirely be a mental thing. I think it's because when I was climbing at my best I was doing mostly sport climbing and my trad cunning and head game weren't at the same level. So I got up a couple of E3s but in reality I had to be over fit and over strong to make up for my eternal fannying around. 

I'm very opposite to that. Never been able to do 7a (6c+ is best I've managed) but managed a few E4s in my prime and still hopeful of more. Still hopeful of a 7a one day too.

Found it. Obvious how once I'd thought about it.

All I can say is I'm surprised. My main memory of it is feet skating around on holds, though obviously lack of ability would've also been a factor!