In reply to Allan McDonald (Gwydyr MC):
> (In reply to Ian Jones) I led it donkeys years ago before the disappearing chockstone and thought if was HVS 5b. Didn't aid it and thought it ok at that grade but imagine it desperate without chockstone.
Ditto. I think the guide I had said it was 5a, and it definitely seemed very fierce at that - the main problem being getting started on the layback, then a bit easier.