UKC

Have other UKCers got their 100th issue of Climb yet? It has the 100 best climbs in Britain in it and 100 most important people in UK climbing of the last 50 years - the type of lists that are designed to be argued over!

Did anyone think some person or some route had been missed out? My copy hasn't arrived yet, so I've only seen an electronic version of the people list. I always used to moan that OTE (being Sheffield mafia an all that) never knew anything about Scottish winter, so got most of the way through this list thinking "oh no, they're going to forget Nisbet", but he's there at no.82. I guess Climb editor Ian is huge Scottish winter fan, so that accounts for there being plenty of Scottish winter activist in there too. Simon Richardson doesn't get in though and I suspect that he has much a claim to regional fame as someone like Pete Oxley who is in (and "Scottish winter" is maybe the biggest 'region'!). I'm sure there will be other climbers linked mainly to one area who have been missed out. UKC Alan gets in, but only for Rockfax - not UKC. Very 'old media'.

I've only seen the first 7 of the routes list ( http://www.greenshires.3dvp.co.uk/Climb_Preview_June_2013_Issue_100/#/2/ ) anything obvious missing out the next 93?

In reply to TobyA:

Blimey! Looking at the top 11 influential climbers I'm guessing Climb mag wanted to start some controversy! It's a bit Sheffield-centric

Climbing did a similar list of of the 100 best climbs a while ago, it was the most cliched, obvious list ever. From the ten listed there it looks like Climb have attempted to put some thought into it.

In reply to Tyler:

Ah, my mistake, not influential but those who have made British climbing great. Even so.......

In reply to TobyA: well from the part that is on the link,i can see this being controversial.certainly some dont deserve their placing and no sign of johnny dawes ??

In reply to TobyA:

Can someone tell me if The Night Watch is in the routes list? If not I'm not going to waste my money

In reply to Toreador:

It is... Nominated by F Cookson

In reply to TobyA: Can someone post the lists on this thread?

In reply to mark s:

No. 36 "Probably the single most influential British climber of all time." Personally I wouldn't agree with that description of him, but he's definitely there.

The climbs are listed in regional "chapters", Scotland first so all those route on the first pages are Scottish for that reason. The people don't seem to be in any particular order at all. At a guess Jerry and Mina are on the first double page spread as they were easily available for a photo shoot! That Sheffield thing again...

People List in full...

A good list and an entertaining issue.

1 Ron Fawcett
2 Ben Moon
3 Joe Brown
4 Jerry Moffatt
5 Mina Leslie-Wujastyk
6 Pete Livesey
7 Lucy Creamer
8 Seb Grieve
9 Al Rouse
10 Pete Crew
11 Percy Bishton
12 Ruth Jenkins
13 Ken Wilson
14 Doug Scott
15 John Dunne
16 Guy Robertson
17 Allan Austin
18 Andy Cave
19 Cubby Cuthbertson
20 Grimer
21 Caff
22 Stevie Haston
23 Zippy
24 Paul Pritchard
25 Hazel Findlay
26 Jimmy Marshall
27 Don Whillans
28 Dave Birkett
29 Malcolm Smith
30 Leo Holding
31 John Readhead
32 Ian Vickers
33 Steve Bancroft
34 Neil Gresham
35 Eric Jones
36 Dawes
37 Mark Leach
38 Pete Oxley
39 Dougie Hall
40 Alan Mullin
41 Jim Perrin
42 Rab Carrington
43 Ed Douglas
44 Fliss Butler
45 Chris Bonington
46 Martin Boysen
47 Simon Nadin
48 Stephen Venables
49 Airlie Anderson
50 Neil Bentley
51 Dougal Haston
52 Leo Dickinson
53 Tom Proctor
54 Joe Simpson
55 John Allen
56 Roger Payne
57 Glenda Huxter
58 Alan James
59 Louise Thomas
60 Alison Hardgraves
61 Ryan Pasquill
62 Tom Randall
63 Charlie Woodburn
64 Rachel Farmer
65 Johnny Woodward
66 Andy Pollit
67 Don Robinson
68 Martin Crocker
69 Pete Whittaker
70 John Syrett
71 Ben Bransby
72 Nick Dixon
73 Dave Turnbull
74 Pete Whillance
75 Ed Drummond
76 Tim Emmett
77 James Pearson
78 Pat Littlejohn
79 Dan Varian
80 Tut Braithwaite
81 Mick Fowler
82 Andy Nisbet
83 Tom Patey
84 John Brailsford
85 Dave Macleod
86 Alex MacIntyre
87 Alun Hughes
88 John Arran
89 Nick Bullock
90 Crispin Waddy
91 Alison Chadwick
92 Joe Tasker
93 Peter Boardman
94 Andy Parkin
95 Robin Smith
96 Shauna Coxsey
97 Paul Williams
98 Gary Gibson
99 Rich Heap
100 Andy Kirkpatrick

Notable Emissions

Steve Mac - He wrote it so fair dos.
Pete Robins
Mark Valance - He invented Friends and Rocks FFS!
George Band
Simon Richardson
Twid - Has done way more than Louise!
Parnell - Loads of amazing Himalayan Alpine Climbs and a fair few bonkers trad routes.
Jules Cartwright
Andy Perkins
Brendan Murphy
At least on of the Leeds Alpine Scene - Powel, Bracey, Cross or Cool
Martin Moran

Come on UKC who really deserves a place in the top 100?!

Climb magazine chief editor lives about 200 miles from Sheffield, so its unlikely to be biased towards shefffield climbers

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: I agree with the 100 but it looks to me like lots of them could be in the top ten, did they pull them out of a bingo machine?

In reply to Steve Perry:

I don't think they're really in order.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: Top typing Tom! You gonna do the best climbs list too?!

I think you're right too that some of the 90s generation of uber-alpinists should be in there. I think both Dave Pickford and Ian P. have a claim to be on the list too, but as Climb's editors I suspect they are being modest.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
Bear Grylls?

In reply to TobyA:

Dawes at 36 and Macleod at 80 something....hmmmmm that's lists for you ie wrong!

In reply to TobyA: Fred Dibnah??

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Debbie does Dallas?

<coat />

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Pretty obvious that the list's not in any order, though starting for Fawcett, Moon, Brown, Moffat may give that impression initially.

Some possible misses:
Steve Mac - explained above, but think he could have included himself without anybody complaining!
John Gaskins - is this the lone wolf thing?
Neil Carsons - not that many routes but the first 9a in the country (unless Hubble is 9a).

In reply to TobyA: Burgess Brothers, Les Holliwell, John Hunt, Paul Nunn Jim Birkett to name a few

In reply to Ian Patterson: You're quite right it's not in order, and Steve Mac is in the list he's 101

In reply to Jim Walton: Pete Biven

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Just bought a copy

If the idea is that the list will generate discussion, then it's probably doomed to failure, as a large majority of routes are in the upper grades, so most climbers won't have been anywhere near them.

Just for you Tobes...

Scotland
Old Man of Hoy
Butterknife
Ardverikie Wall
Fionn Buttress
Old Man of Stoer
Integrity
The Pause
Panting Dog Climb
Steeple
Shibboleth
Prozac Link
Run of the Arrow
Dragonhead
Kelpile
Marlene
The Chisel

The Lakes
Eagle Front
Tophet Wall
Lord of the Rings
Fear and Fascination
Sixpence

North of England
Nightw*tch
Carnage
Rainshaddow
Lost Cause
Left Wall - Brimham
Great Western
Mandela
The Golden Tower

The Peak
Archangel
Via Principia
Meditation
Bob Hope
Elegy - interesting definition of Peak District
Great Slab - Froggatt
Direct Indirect
Super Prow
Adjudicator Wall
Hanging Crack
Strapadictomy
London Wall
Beau Geste
Appointment with Fear
Meshuga

The Big NW
Main Wall
White Slab
Jelly Roll
The Brute
Left Wall - Cromlech
Vector
The Boldest
Phoenix
Silly Arete
New Dimensions
The Moon
Foil
Lord of the Flies
The Axe
Right Wall
Positron
The Cad
Dream of White Horses
Rainbow Recalcitrance
Resurrection
Wall of the Evening Light
Conan the Librarian
Ugly
Indian Face
Fantan B
The Quarryman

South Wales

Chimes Freedom
Exposure Explosion
Preposterous Tales
Underneath the Arches
Pleasure Dome
Sunlover
Maestegosaurus
Transformer
Berlin

South of England
Devil's Slide
Widespread Ocean of Fear
Doorpost
Moonraker
Coronation Street
America
Smile
Sacre Coeur
Dream/Liberator
Fay
The Lean Machine
Infinite Gravity
Skeleton Ridge
Ben
Rainbow Bridge
Caveman
the Jackals
Bird or Paradise
The Conger
Twangy Pearl
Yellow Edge

A good, not too predictable but quite esoteric list. Too much trad limestone from my liking. Where on earth was Cenotaph Corner?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Only five good routes in the Lakes...

In reply to Steve Perry:

Somebody should make it into a ukc ticklist

<takes a step back>

In reply to jon:

Only five on the list in Cornwall too and one of them is Doorpost, hmm.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

With the other 5 routes from the Cromlech already there? Seems quite north wales biased to me (and I spent a lot of time in NW when I used to trad climb).

In reply to TobyA: The 100 best climbs sports Indian Face and Rainshadow, how can climbs that have been done by less than 10 people be deemed "best"?

In reply to Steve Perry:

Perhaps they're only in there to put off "puerile tickers"

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
definately some climbs missing here flying butress is a classic should not be missing from any list and where and think the peapod should be on there but the north wales list seems fairly good

In reply to jon:

That's what I thought. V N Wales centric. Vector, Foil, The Boldest. OK, so they're in Extreme Rock, but they're hardly in the top 100 routes in the country!

In reply to Steve Perry:

When people with as much credibility and experience as Adam Ondra say so I suppose.

In reply to Tom Briggs: Tom you should have nominated something from the Lakes and believe me I halved the North Wales routes.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


There isn't enough lime in the peak, its too grit focused. Darius, Supersonic... horses for courses I suppose.

In reply to TobyA: great I dont have to buy it now.

In reply to snoop6060:

It takes a lot more ticks on a UKC route log to change the stars***

In reply to Steve Perry:

We should promote Adam to custodian of the stars, make him climb all 100 of these and see what he thinks. He will no doubt enjoy dovestones quarry and anglezarke

Golden tower in the top 100 climbs in Britain! Hell no.

In reply to Ian Parnell:

The problem is there are so many good extremes in the Lakes from E2-E6 I wouldn't know where to start! Was there somewhere we were supposed to have nominated them? Sorry - missed that. Foil is 70 foot of pleasant enough climbing I guess, but totally overshadowed by 3 other routes on the same bit of rock. Seems like a weird choice. Not done Bitter Oasis or Snickersnack or Grand Alliance or Prana or The Vikings or Cruel Sister?

In reply to Tom Briggs:
Quote "Was there somewhere we were supposed to have nominated them?" You need to look at a better class of facebook pages, Tom
Quote "Foil...seems like a weird choice. Not done Bitter Oasis or Snickersnack or Grand Alliance or Prana or The Vikings or Cruel Sister?" You'll have to ask Jon, he nominated it, as you know routes can make a mark on people, and classics can sometimes float by unnoticed

It was a fascinating process - seeing what was nominated, perhaps it should have been Britain's favourite routes as there is so much personal experience involved when you are nominating a route. Having said that I think its a great list. If you managed all the routes within your grade range you'd have a brilliant climbing experience and a real insight into British climbing.

In reply to Ian Parnell:

Ah right, missed it. Some good things on the list to inspire, I admit. Skeleton Ridge being one of them now that my Dad has moved to Dorset...

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Nice one Tom. I thought I was doing pretty well on the N. Wales list and then I got down towards the bottom of the list....

In reply to Tom Briggs:

Yes, I have a horrible feeling that I'm not actually bad enough not to feel I should give that one a go sometime too!

In reply to snoop6060:
>...

You're just wrong. In my opinion Mandarin and Supercrack should also be in. And maybe Cracked Actor as well. And Deceptive Bends. And Cherry Bomb. And The Last Temptation.

I'm sure they could have easily axed a few of those rubbish North Wales routes for them.

And no, I haven't done all of them!

In reply to TobyA:

Only one County route? I'd have a few more in (I'm probably biased though)

If the climbers list is in order, Johnny Dawes, Leo Houlding and Dave Macleod should be in the top ten.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: Thanks for posting the full list.

I'm rather disappointed to see that I've only done 24 1/2 of the routes. (The 1/2 being Rainbow Bridge where I've failed on the crux.)

Have others fared any better?

In reply to Calder:

I've only stood at the bottom and looked at it (shortly before it started raining), but the climbing on Cherry Bomb must be many many orders of magnitude better than it looks if it's anywhere close to troubling a top 100 list. Unless it's a list of VSs in uninspiring Lancashire chossholes.

Personally I saw the whole thing as the easiest way to fill a magazine with minimum work from the climb team

In reply to Mark Stevenson:

37 for me. Bit disappointed there weren't more in Pembroke as well as the Lakes.

In reply to TobyA: I put this very subject in the pub forum a few days ago...obviously the wrong place!!! Andy Earl, why was he missed out?

In reply to jon:

Really - 49 for me


Chris

In reply to siobhan66:

Given that there's only 100 spots I get the impression they've erred towards people who were big characters of their time as well as making significant contributions in terms of routes, performance etc. Would go some way to explaining the absence of the 'strong but quiet' crowd.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Probably meant I was surprised that Pembroke didn't feature more (rather than disappointed, that is).

In reply to TonyP: I'm presuming that was tongue in cheek Tony?

In reply to victim of mathematics:

It's definitely good. But I may be (or more honestly, am) overstating its quality somewhat due to my Lancashire bias!

In reply to Calder: Excellent, Anglezarke made the top 100. Well chuffed with that.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Why no winter routes? Sorry CLIMB this isn't "The Best 100 Climbs in Britain" it the 100 best rock climbs. Different.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: I wonder if anyone from Scotland contributed to the list.

In reply to Mark Collins: Iain Small, Garth, Iain Peters, Jules Lines, Scott Johnstone, Paul Tattersall and Jamie Hageman are the ones that spring to mind.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

A list wihch includes Mina Leslie-Wujastyk (nothing personal,just the first name on the list suitable as an example) but which excludes Alfred Mummery cannot be taken seriously.

In reply to Ian Parnell:

Top climbers, but possibly not "influential".

In reply to Robert Durran:
You didn't notice the rules - "in the last 50 years"
ALthough Robin Smith has snuck in.

In reply to TobyA: A few in there wouldnt make my top 10 000 ! ....... a few absentees off the top of my head ...Hank Dave Kenyon Phil Davidson Joe Healy George Smith Jordan ...........

In reply to siobhan66: my excuse is I don't read the pub! But this is a proper old school Rocktalk type of an argument. I bet we argued about it when OTE did similar a long long time ago.

In reply to Mike_Watson_99:
Glad you're paying better attention than Robert Robin Smith died in 1962 shortly after making the first ascent of The Needle, onsight no aid. His winter week on the Ben in 1960 alone would have been enough for inclusion.

In reply to Mike_Watson_99:


You're right. I didn't! Though I get the impression some people are interpreting it as "last 50 minutes". I'm not sure how the influence of immediate contemporaries can be appraised without a crystal ball. I suspect a fair number on the list will at best be footnotes in 50 years time.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Nothing on Minguilay or Pabbay? Surely some mistake.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


No Tom Patey? His writing alone must have been more influential than half the people on the list put together.

In reply to Calder:

You evidently really like quarries! Fair enough. I think thats a lancashire thing, but given there isn't much else there, maybe it's to be expected.

Though I did like supercrack, mandarin and cracked actor. They would maybe realistically have a chance of being in the top 100 if they were stacked upon each other as one route.

In reply to TobyA:

Bonington at 45? Is this ab ouldering ranking or something? I know I'm old but perleeeese...

In reply to Postmanpat: Scroll up the thread Pat, they're not in any particular order.

In reply to Nick Russell:

Great idea! I've got a tick-list of tick-lists I need to tick off. As yet, I've not ticked off any of the tick-lists I have on my tick-list tick-list so another tick-list on my tick-list tick-list will only make my tick-list tick-list look better.

In reply to TobyA:

Hamish MacInnes

Ed Douglas, Ken WIlson & Don Robinson are - rightly - on the list as "influential" although I assume it's not for their actual climbing achievements. In which case Gordon Bendall and Paul Diffley might also deserve mentions.

Sean Myles is one of the more prominent not-listed actual climbers. And whilst on the subject of emigres, Alec Sharp? Dave Pegg seems to be pretty influential in his new home too, although probably only "influential in the UK" counts?

In reply to Robert Durran:

Number 83 Rob...

In reply to AlanLittle:

on second thoughts, sorry Paul, but Leo Dickinson, Alun Hughes and Rich Heap are on there so the movie industry is fairly represented. The complete visual media side of things would be fairly represented if John Cleare weren't missing.

From an expat, influential outside the UK perspective, the only things about British climbing any foreigners have ever heard of are Jerry, Ben and Hard Grit.

In reply to TobyA: There is no route from Fairhead which IMO is the best crag in the UK.

In reply to Aigen: Good point, I've never been but it does look ace.

In reply to Ian Parnell: Fair enough, just thought there would be more Scottish routes. I guess its a case of more people = more routes, rather than more rock = more routes. I'm probably stating the bleeding obvious, but to have the Peak District a route less than the whole of Scotland seems a bit odd.

In reply to AlanLittle:


That's not true in my experience, I know more Finns who have gone to climb in Scotland in winter than have gone to try gritstone, hard or not.

In Jeff Lowe's book Cimbing from the late 80s he had The Needle in as the hardest mixed route in the world at the time! I think Scottish Winter Climbing has a decently strong "international brand".

In reply to TobyA: good to see Andy Pollit on the list. Was this recognition of the great routes he put up, or the introduction of Lycra to the 80s climbing scene? Seem to remember the first pair was from the dance shop near The Crucible.

In reply to TobyA:

Airlie Anderson ahead of Fowler, Macleod or Nisbet for influence or achievement??????????? Dream on!

In reply to Saor Alba:

It's not in order...

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

What you meant to say, Tom, was:

IT'S NOT IN ORDER.

In reply to TobyA:

The main obvious omission from the list is Franco Cookson

In reply to jon:

It would be fun to put it in order though!

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I didn't realise that but either way she shouldn't be on there. It just goes to show the pointlessness of lists like these as there are many who are way more influential but not on the list.

In reply to Aigen:

It's the best trad in the uk crag by far, roll on may 30th when I shall return for battle number 2. There are 100 better routes at fairhead alone than some on this list, quite a few in fact.

In reply to snoop6060: You missed out 'in my opinion' from that post.

In reply to smithaldo:

And plenty others I would imagine. I would gamble almost everyone who has climbed at both fairhead and anglezark could find 100 routes better at fairhead than golden tower. But yes, it was my opinion rather than a statement of fact.

In reply to Toreador: and Callum McNicol

In reply to snoop6060:

I think you have to accept with lists like this that every area, however rubbish (hence the inclusion of Golden Tower as the best of a bad lot) gets represented. Otherwise, obviously, all the routes would either be in Scotland or at Fairhead.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Except there was nothing for Fairhead!

Snoop6060 is right though. In this instance his opinion is an undeniable fact.

In reply to Saor Alba:

You're right. The first female ascent of Masters Edge probably didn't influence a single woman to become serious about rock climbing.

In reply to Toreador: That would be true if:
a. This were a list of the top 100 people in the UK called Franco Cookson
b. All the other Franco Cooksons were being investigated as part of operation Yew Tree

In reply to Mark Collins: I don't like the way this is going re Golden Tower, I'm on the edge of tears.

In reply to TobyA:

Given that Robin Smith died in July 1962 he's doing particularly well to make a list of the most influential climbers of the last 50 years, unless we're saying that his influence endured after his death (in which case one can think of quite a few climbers dead by 1963 who might make the list).

jcm

In reply to TobyA:
Anyone know where Direct Indirect is? I searched the UKC database and came up with a boulder problem at Baldstones - I'm guessing that's not it.

In reply to Fredt:

Good shout!

In reply to bullybones:

I thought it was on the Cobbler. But I'm guessing that's not it either.

jcm

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: if they are not ranked why did they not put them in alphabetical order? It would also make it much easier to see who isn't on it. Incidentally, which Dawes.

In reply to TobyA: Will read thread with interest but my tuppence:

- no idea how Phoenix at Crafnant made it, totally decent (indeed very good) route but Top 100 in the UK? No way! There are stacks of other way more outstanding / memorable routes in the E1-3 range in N Wales.

- also, nothing from The Leap? Got to be amongst one of the most special places to climb in the UK with some ultra classics in there.

- only 1 slate route too, disgraceful.

But, you can't please all the people all the time. Very enjoyable issue too!

In reply to Toreador: Class

In reply to ksjs: And Mandela better than Supercool? Haven't been on either but very much aspire to Supercool which is regularly touted as the UK's best sport route.

In reply to ksjs: And nothing from LPT? Why didn't I think of that before, even more disgusted now. What about Bad, Bad Boy, do they come any more classic? Melancholie, one of the most coveted 8s around? Surely there has to be something given the crag's importance?

In reply to ksjs:

I can see you're winding yourself up and will soon explode...

In reply to jon: Luckily the debate over Golden Tower's merits versus the entirety of Fair Head is helping me relax.

But come on, nothing from The Leap or LPT? Get serious people!

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Scotland
Old Man of Hoy
Butterknife
Ardverikie Wall
Fionn Buttress
Old Man of Stoer
Integrity
The Pause
Panting Dog Climb
Steeple
Shibboleth
Prozac Link
Run of the Arrow
Dragonhead
Kelpile
Marlene
The Chisel

I haven't done masses in Scotland but one of Hoy and Stoer must be spurious (I've only done Stoer - it's a laugh but I imagine Hoy is better). And nothing from Diabaig or Sheigra seems absurd when they are probably IMO the two best crags on mainland Britain.

In reply to Jon Stewart:


Arguably (very), but certainly infinitely better than any Lancashire quarry.

The problem is that with Scotland being so massively underrepresented in order to include some of the scrappy stuff further south, some places had to be left out. Not finding room for Diabaig or Sheigra is just about understandable but to omit Mingulay and Pabbay completely really is ridiculous.

In reply to Jon Stewart: I'm with you on this Scottish thing, surely there is more worthwhile rock up there than is currently repesented.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Easy mate, no need to go for the soft target. There're tons of quarries in the Peak District; Stanage, Froggatt, Curbar, Lawrencefield, etc.

In reply to TobyA: I can't Believe there is nothing from the Southern Sandstone???

In reply to Ian Bentley:

Or Stannington Ruffs, the Harrisons of the north!

In reply to Ian Bentley:

Nor can I given some of the other bizarre choices.

In reply to Jonny2vests:

Well I can't believe there's nothing from Shipley Glen NOR Baildon Bank! And surely something from Park Rocks(http://www.yorkshiregrit.com/parkrocks.html - on my way back from Asda) is worthy of the list?

In reply to Mark Collins:

Its no match for Mandarin!

In reply to Aigen:

Perhaps it doesn't qualify because, while it's in the UK, it's not in Great Britain

In reply to Ian Bentley:

Because its a cack choss heap that's (fortunately) blowing away in the wind. There are no good routes on southern sandstone. It's the worst form of climbing imaginable.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Hoy probably wins overall but Stoer is definitely better rock!

In reply to TobyA: 21 for me. I agree, there are loads that have been ignored in the lakes......and Stoney...............and what about Rhododendron Buttress and All Roads lead to Rome at Houghton!

In reply to mountassguard:


"Routes" is stretching a point for SS but there are plenty of good problems there. I don't have to imagine worse forms of climbing - i've experienced them often enough !

In reply to TobyA:
Unless I missed them, I am quite surprised Alan James/Chris Craggs are not there as I assume the list is about influence and not pure climbing ability. They must have done loads to make climbing more accessible via guidebooks and change the way people get climbing partners and the general approach to climbing via UKC.

In reply to sjc: What, even more than Percy Bishton!

In reply to sjc:

I'm afraid you must have been scheme reading this morning. Alan is on the list, Toby even mentions this in his opening post.

In reply to sjc:

Alan James is there. Grimer is too, for much the same reason (not that he isn't a pretty useful climber too!)

In reply to sjc:

AJ is number 58, I think.

If we're talking about off-field influence I suspect someone would rate a mention for their role in making the BMC what it is today. Not that I know who; perhaps there was no one individual - Dennis Gray, perhaps?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Jeez - can none of you read?!

Roger Payne and Dave Turnbull are both on the list - both of them seemed a tad unnecessary to me.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Does anyone have the skills/technology to put the list in alphabetical order for those of us who are just a little senile. It would really help!

In reply to Robert Durran:
Its been a slow morning so here you are other than the 4 at the end.

55 John Allen
49 Airlie Anderson
88 John Arran
17 Allan Austin
33 Steve Bancroft
50 Neil Bentley
28 Dave Birkett
11 Percy Bishton
93 Peter Boardman
45 Chris Bonington
46 Martin Boysen
84 John Brailsford
80 Tut Braithwaite
71 Ben Bransby
3 Joe Brown
89 Nick Bullock
44 Fliss Butler
42 Rab Carrington
18 Andy Cave
91 Alison Chadwick
96 Shauna Coxsey
7 Lucy Creamer
10 Pete Crew
68 Martin Crocker
19 Cubby Cuthbertson
52 Leo Dickinson
72 Nick Dixon
43 Ed Douglas
75 Ed Drummond
15 John Dunne
76 Tim Emmett
64 Rachel Farmer
1 Ron Fawcett
25 Hazel Findlay
81 Mick Fowler
98 Gary Gibson
34 Neil Gresham
8 Seb Grieve
39 Dougie Hall
60 Alison Hardgraves
22 Stevie Haston
51 Dougal Haston
99 Rich Heap
30 Leo Holding
87 Alun Hughes
57 Glenda Huxter
58 Alan James
12 Ruth Jenkins
35 Eric Jones
100 Andy Kirkpatrick
37 Mark Leach
5 Mina Leslie-Wujastyk
78 Pat Littlejohn
6 Pete Livesey
86 Alex MacIntyre
85 Dave Macleod
26 Jimmy Marshall
4 Jerry Moffatt
2 Ben Moon
40 Alan Mullin
47 Simon Nadin
82 Andy Nisbet
38 Pete Oxley
94 Andy Parkin
61 Ryan Pasquill
83 Tom Patey
56 Roger Payne
77 James Pearson
41 Jim Perrin
66 Andy Pollit
24 Paul Pritchard
53 Tom Proctor
62 Tom Randall
31 John Readhead
16 Guy Robertson
67 Don Robinson
9 Al Rouse
14 Doug Scott
54 Joe Simpson
29 Malcolm Smith
95 Robin Smith
70 John Syrett
92 Joe Tasker
59 Louise Thomas
73 Dave Turnbull
79 Dan Varian
48 Stephen Venables
32 Ian Vickers
90 Crispin Waddy
74 Pete Whillance
27 Don Whillans
69 Pete Whittaker
97 Paul Williams
13 Ken Wilson
63 Charlie Woodburn
65 Johnny Woodward
20 Grimer
21 Caff
23 Zippy
36 Dawes

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I would have thought Jim Moran would be in top 100???

In reply to TobyA: Reads like one of those "Greatest films of all time" lists where 80pc are from the last five years

In reply to Christheclimber:

Who?

In reply to mountassguard: Think you may be taking me a little too seriously! Tongue was firmly in cheek!

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Yes, the list would make much more sense if an added criterion was that they had to be dead (or at least retired).

In reply to Robert Durran:

Top 100 climbers from the last 50 years who are already dead.

I like it. Snappy title.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Agreed. Not that I've done it but it does look other Worldly. There are quite a few anomalies at Hoghton in comparison to surrounding venues if not the entire UK. I'm still delighted that something from Lancashire made the grade. There must've been a hell of a fight to get it in.

no rich simpson?

In reply to rustaldo:

And indeed no Neil Carson. First British 9a, wasn't it?!

jcm

In reply to TobyA:

Well as usual for British climbing mags they've neglected Scotland in favour of South of the border. Nothing on the Ben or Creag an Dubh Loch? The main surprise was that this time the Lakes has got the same treatment!

The climbers list though is excellent and well thought out.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Its because of the midges, they ruin scotland.

In reply to snoop6060:

You mean like people ruin the Lakes and the Peak?

In reply to Robert Durran:

Exactly like that. Swarms of f*ckers ruin everything.

In reply to Michael Gordon: Not sure if you realise that 85% of the 100 routes were nominated by readers and 'stars'. For me that makes it a more interesting list than a straight 100 best (which as this thread has shown you'd never get 'right' or please everyone). Worth picking up a copy to find out which route Iain Small thought was 'the best of it's grade anywhere', or which route Northern Highlands Dark Horse Paul Tattersall or Cairngorms pioneer Jules Lines chose.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

"Elegy - interesting definition of Peak District"

Why, where is your definition of the Peak District?

In reply to Robert Durran:

Yeah, it's when they bite my face it really gets me.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Lost Cause THE best route in Northumberland?? Hmm........it's a good route but the best?

In reply to andyjjj:

http://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/maps/pdmap

maybe the route itself is exempt?

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Have things really got that bad down there?

In reply to Ian Parnell:

Hmmm, that does sound interesting. Maybe I'll have to buy a copy. I think I could take a good stab at guessing Jules' choice!

In reply to TobyA:

Just got a copy, best British climbing mag since the OTE Power and the Glory article! The only person I feel strongly should be in the list is Steve Myres. Great all rounder for the time, since gone on to do some pretty handy alpine routes, brought an indoor wall to Milton Keynes and person most responsible for making North Wales Limestone what it is today

Denny Moorhouse? Tony Howard? Hugh Banner?