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Climbing through the decades...

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 C Witter 02 Sep 2020

Out of curiosity, and since it's raining and work feels like too much of an effort, I wondered if those who've been climbing for some time feel like sharing anything about how climbing has changed across the decades.

Specifically, with regard to whichever particular decade(s) you identify with:

1. Grade inflation: e.g. what was an E1 today in old money?
2. What did you rack? E.g. when did you first start using friends? What did you used to rack for a day of mountain cragging in... say, the 1970s?
3. What was considered really fashionable back then? E.g. lycra, judo trousers, flared jeans? Or, perhaps a particular climbing area (e.g. Chamonix, Pen Trwyn, Boux or somewhere in Norway) or sub-discipline/approach (e.g. that yo-yo ascent you were proud of, that now seems a bit passé)?
4. Who was your climbing hero?
5. How has climbing become more or less friendly? Or... how have people's attitudes to climbing changed, if you've got any good tales of being chased off by landowners or locals!

Or... else, you can choose your own topics!

Ta!

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 wbo2 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Since 1985... better shoes now, much more sport, bouldering, with mats,  more and better walls.  

Overall better than ever

Removed User 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Since 1962 ? everything starting with harness's to cams. You lot don't know you were born.

1
 nomisb 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

1. Grade inflation: bits keep falling off Sand Stone so grades get harder - 5c is still 5c..


2. What did you rack? What ever you had - Hitting an E1 5a with four quick draws and 5 various nuts does have the advantage of not getting pumped putting gear in. I did have several drilled out nuts (Joe Brown style) which were surprisingly good, a tri cam which wasn't and eventually alot of rocks on rope as you didn't need a quick draw.. Being a fatty and fifty I'm now at the point where I have the rack I always dreamed of but no longer the strength, agility, stamina or head to do the frankly insane sh*t I did in my 20's.


3. What was considered really fashionable back then? Flared Jeans moving into Ron Hills. A travel bong was also de rigger. EB's .... wow did they feel good.


4. Who was your climbing hero? Anyone who climbed better than me but Joe Brown and Brummie Stokes always worth reading. Don W because he smoked and Johny "Mr Balance" Dawes because


5. How has climbing become more or less friendly? Old farts always think it's got worse. It hasn't - I can walk and talk shop with any age group in my area - 99.9999% are friendly ( you'll always get a prick amongst the roses though) the one thing I have noticed is the lack of care taken over rock. I live in a Sand Stone area that doesn't suit itself to dogging small problems - a lot of gym bread climbers tackle problems as though the holds are kept round the back in a big sack. Along with Sh*tting on the crag and leaving rubbish this has always and will continue to annoy me.

Work is dull isn't it...
 

 nomisb 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Removed Usercapoap:

The

Leader

must

not

fall.....

Now you can safelyish throw yourself off and ropes won't snap....

In reply to C Witter:

I started in 1964.  I like the improvements in gear but dislike the increased commercialism.  Unfortunately the one goes with the other. I have given this some thought and concluded that I preferred things how they were in the 70's but I would wouldn't I? I have also concluded that if I were young and looking for a hobby now I probably would not pick rock climbing.  I took up climbing specifically because it was cheap, not overtly competitive and got me into wonderful places. It's no longer cheap, is very competitive and does not necessarily get one into wonderful places. I'm talking here of the general trend and not the personal choices that a person can of course make but the general trend tends to become mainstream.

Al

7
 Derek Furze 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

I started in the early 70's.  There were plenty of people climbing, but nothing like the commercialisation surrounding it and gear was rudimentary by comparison.  This extended to clothing, where lots was homemade, but we and many others climbed in jeans and woolly pullies.  I was at the Grochan once, when someone rocked up in a brown suit (no tie), tied a hawser laid rope (yes, they were around then) around their waist and led Hangover, which at that point was up there as a hard route.  They kept their jacket on, which impressed me somewhat, but I stuck with jeans nonetheless.  Most nuts were on rope, including all the wedge shaped ones, but the ranges were laughable compared to nowadays - perhaps four nuts spanning from small to large, rather than the 14 seen nowadays.  Wires were hopeless because they were too stiff, so rope movement easily lifted them, partly because quickdraws didn't exist - we used double krabs sometimes.  The introduction, by Chouinard of the 'stopper' range was eye-opening as the wire was flexible and the range was comprehensive - I saved up and bought some when I was fifteen, having experienced them climbing with an Aussie in Wales who was on a world tour.  He was called Russ and didn't hear very well (or climb that well either), which made for some hair-raising sessions where he insisted on trying things I thought he wouldn't do and he would end up aiding on his microwires.  No belay plates in those days so giving someone tension was hard work - not a simple 'take', but communication was entertaining as I followed and tried to get him to hold me while I worked on stuck wires (no nut keys either).  However, the stoppers impressed, so I saved up and bought them - they were nicked on my first trip to Wales from my rucksack in a hut.  Slings were often hawser laid rope or self-tied tape from a reel, where nowadays they are all factory sewn.

Hardly anyone used helmets anywhere other than the Alps.  To be fair, they were neck-breakingly heavy.  Everyone used EBs and this didn't really change until around 1980, when other options started to be decent and sticky rubber arrived.

Training wasn't a thing.  Walls hardly existed and were usually rubbish when they did.  Women climbers were rarely seen.  Joe Brown used to stand at the bar in the Padarn, which inspired us to drink more.  I think friendliness was on a par really - I was certainly taken in when I couldn't get to a campsite or hitching ended in the middle of nowhere and someone paid my bus fair once when I got on a Mountain Goat (buckling under a heavy sack, but penniless) to plead with the driver.  I loved hitching and that seems to have diminished massively over the years.  I can remember tearing up the M6 to the Lakes in a rustbucket with hardly any floor pan left in the front footwell with the driver hitting 100 and saying 'not much passes me'.  Quite possible that other motorists were put off any overtaking by sheet metal fragments hurtling off his car.

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 Andy Say 02 Sep 2020
2
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

I started in 1965, led my first Extreme (Left Unconquerable) in about 1970. Everything has changed: gear, guidebooks, venues, sport, bouldering, crowds, red-pointing, chalk, climbing walls, cams, sticky rubber, mats, daft glasses  - another world, another sport.

Chris

Post edited at 17:52

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Plasynant 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

This is a great post . The 70’s were the business for climbing. I was having this conversation on Sunday with a fellow climber and he agreed . Equipment not great , clothing not great , but not much overcrowding and great music . Most of all the sense of adventure still held resonance which after all is what climbing is all about .. is it not ..? 

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 DerwentDiluted 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

I think I can try to chronicle the decline of the sport....

1960's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that Joe Brown, the human fly, have you done that Old man of Hoy then?"

1970's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that Chris Bonington with the beard, have you done Everest then?"

1980's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that French bird with the legs, do you do that free climbing then?"

1990's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that Cliffhanger, have you got one of them bolt guns?"

2000's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that kid that beat Clarkson to the top of that cliff, do you do that speed climbing and base jumping?"

2010's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that Bear Grylls,  Do you drink your own piss?"

2020- "So you're a climber eh? Well bloody well get to the back of the queue, some of us have paid good money to get the train up here and don't want our Instagram spoilt by you"

Post edited at 18:24
OP C Witter 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Thanks everyone I'm enjoying the reminiscences! I'm not sure how far I would have got with only 4 nuts and a pair of EBs, but nonetheless find stories of climbing past grander and more alluring.

 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 02 Sep 2020
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

Oh so true!

Chris

 petemeads 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Same time, same gear, PAs instead of Masters (zero-friction rubber, very stiff). Hiatt steel krabs that bit you. Joe Brown as hero. Two years later, Edelrid chest harness briefly, then Whillans sit harness. Moacs and Clog hexes, still hawser-laid slings but proper Edelrid 11MM kernmantel ropes. Still carrying pegs for aid and protection in 1974, climbing Extremes that became E2 or E3. Tom Proctor hero. 1975 Chouinard Stoppers and Hexcentrics had appeared, traditional part-pegged, part nutted, part free ascent of El Cap. 1976 heroes Allen, Bancroft and Regan - climbing grit and lime in the peak, up to E4ish. 1978 Friends appeared, hammerless ascent of Salathe wall. End of career, restarted in 80s with Fires but had drifted into gliding by 1981 so climbing turned into walls and mountain challenges in Walshes. Still bouldering...

 alan moore 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

When I started in the late 80's, Ron Fawcett was the Godfather, Garry Gibson filled the new route pages and Johnny Dawes was still from another planet. Jerry Moffat was a bad boy because the magazine editors didn't like him. Ben Moon wasn't a bad boy but nobody understood his bizarre sub-sport anyway.

The rack, for me hasn't changed; Wild country rocks and Friends. I still use my original stuff. Climbers then, used to clank and rattle when they moved, rather than the tinkling sound made by modern lightweight Karibiners. Rock boots were ankle high and didn't fit. Now they are below the ankle and don't fit.

Nobody wore helmets then; unless you had a beard or were on a course.

The biggest change is in guidebooks which used to be terse little pocket sized things rather than the softback coffee table books we have now.

 Derek Furze 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Brilliant pictures!

Plasynant 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Fantastic pics Gordon . Probably an exact replica of the gear I was wearing using at the time I did this climb . 

 afx22 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

I’ve only been climbing 11 years, so I still feel like a newbie, but..

When I started, bouldering felt like a niche, a less popular part of climbing.  Now it seems that bouldering is the norm and trad is now in the minority, generally only practiced by those who have been around a lot longer than I have.

Sport seems to be where younger climbers go, if they want to play with ropes.

I’m not sure that’s factual but is how is seems to me.

And there are now so many climbers who only climb indoors.

And Jonny Dawes is my favourite climber.  Brilliant, eccentric and entertaining.  His understanding of movement is mind blowing.

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In reply to DerwentDiluted:

Have a big like. Superb and nicely catches the trends.

Al

 john arran 02 Sep 2020
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

Post of the year so far, I reckon

2
In reply to petemeads:

Re. the Masters. I'm still proud of having done Spectre and Kaisergebirge Wall in the hot, sweaty summer of '68 in the horrendously uncomfortable and unsticky Masters boots, and with no chalk.

Post edited at 20:12
 Derek Furze 02 Sep 2020
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

Excellent Bob!

In reply to Plasynant:

I must just say something about the helmets (Comptons, I think). We had lost our mother from cancer two years before, but when we got keen on climbing dad was amazingly encouraging, given how dangerous climbing is. But the one proviso he made was 'If you're going to climb, you must have proper helmets.'

In reply to Derek Furze:

Yes, thanks DD, the best post for aeons.

 uphillnow 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

One thing you might consider is to look at the magazines back then. I have copies of MOUNTAIN CRAFT from 1960 or a little earlier. The prices of equipment alone is worth noting - not that there was the range there later was! F.E.B. Mountain boot from  Brigham's in 1960 £6.19.6 plus 2s. 6d. postage. Viking nylon rope 120 feet of 1 1/4 inch laid rope for £5.18.9d.

Your 5th point - often you had no information about the route you were setting out on. Maybe seen another climbers guide before a trip and copied a diagram on a bit of paper. Look at say the SMC Lovat 1959 guide to Glencoe, or better still a Ben Nevis guide for the same period and the line diagramme's(!) and the descriptions(!) Once on a route no mobile phone, all down to you to sort out.

Following through on later mags gives a good perspective on what was going on. Things improved from the mid 60's in terms of protection but good guide books were in the main yet to happen at that time. Grade clutter with many hvs now given e1. was an issue too. Also climbing in big boots was more usual on mountain routes for most except on the very hardest routes by the few who had more sense!

 Sean Kelly 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

I too started in the early 60's and it was really a whole lot different world. I hitched or cycled everywhere. We always camped or bivvied, in chicken shacks, army pillboxes, caves, farmer's barns, and the like. The single biggest difference to today was access to information. There was one poor little magazine published by the Mountaineering Association with a few pale grey pictures. Guidebooks had no pics except possibly on the cover, and very poor diagrams of routes on crags. All grades stopped at VS. I can remember asking someone in the Vaynol what climb could he recommend and where was the crag? Gear was minimal, heavy and unmanageable. Axes were like Alpenstocks with long handles. Crampons rarely had front points. You had to serve an apprenticeship before progressing to leading climbs. Older climbers mostly climbed in nails often ex-war dept. gear. Only good climbers used rubbers. And if you got into trouble , someone had to scoot off down to the Pen y Gwryd to get Chris Briggs to organise a rescue. And if it rained, you got wet. A trip to the Alps was very expensive yet you were only allowed to take a limited amount of money out of the country. You usually travelled over on a British motorbike. A trip to the greater ranges only happened if you were invited onto an expedition. And finally very few people actually climbed and even fewer women. There was no queuing for climbs. It was generally regarded as an eccentric pastime for the mentally insane!

Post edited at 20:35
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 Tom Valentine 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

I can remember moving on  from Army stores bendy boots, but not to PAs. Instead i bought some Kletts from Ellis Brigham, figuring that climbing in the boots you'd walked to the crag in was a sensible choice, especially at the grades I was operating at.. So the following day I walked up to Wimberry and led Bertie's Bugbear in them, They served me for over a year including my first trip to Wales (The Cracks was the highlight of my week) and I can't really remember moving on to EBs, though I obviously did.

 Duncan Bourne 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

1. Grades seem to fluctuate. Although obviously they have gone up since the invention of E grades (HVS, XS, VXS, HVXS would never have worked for long). Yorkshire is still hard.

2. Started in the early 90's so flexi-friends, hex's on cord, nuts etc. Still use them now.

3. Gos lycra! I had strippy lycra I looked like a ruddy wasp. Ron Hills and baggy t-shirts. Stoney was just passing out of fashion.

4. Johnny Dawes (still is), Jerry Moffett, Ben Moon, etc.

5. Climbing has in many ways become main stream. Though more so in regard to sport climbing. When I started you got into climbing through climbing on rock and mostly trad at that. Sport being quite niche. The only wall was at Sheffield so we would drive out to the Peak. If it stayed nice we climbed at Stanage or somewhere in the vicinity, if it rained we would carry on to the Foundry.

Never been chased off by landowners but I do remember Doug when he lived in the Roaches cottage (Whilans hut) and once had to climb around three people having sex at Heighly Castle. (Which was very much overgrown last time I was there)

6. You could drive to the Roaches at midday on a weekend and still find a parking space.

 Andy Hardy 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

By far and away the biggest change to climbing has been the internet. Once upon a time, climbing only attracted nerdy kids who hated organised sports (and pretty much anything else with rules)

Now it's full of worryingly normal young people carefully curating their Instagram lives

I wonder if surfing is the same...

1
 Dave Garnett 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> Re. the Masters. I'm still proud of having done Spectre and Kaisergebirge Wall in the hot, sweaty summer of '68 in the horrendously uncomfortable and unsticky Masters boots, and with no chalk.

I remember slowly sliding off the sloping traverse of John Peel in my Masters, which everyone else could apparent effortlessly stand on in their EBs.  I made another trip to Frank Davies' Mountain Shop in Birmingham shortly afterwards.

It was probably Ian Parsons, of this parish, who served me. 

OP C Witter 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Great! Thanks Gordon! I note that Milestone Buttress looked very polished even back then! I very much enjoyed the nostalgic insight into the past in Fiva

OP C Witter 02 Sep 2020
In reply to petemeads:

> Same time, same gear, PAs instead of Masters (zero-friction rubber, very stiff). Hiatt steel krabs that bit you. Joe Brown as hero. Two years later, Edelrid chest harness briefly, then Whillans sit harness. Moacs and Clog hexes, still hawser-laid slings but proper Edelrid 11MM kernmantel ropes. Still carrying pegs for aid and protection in 1974, climbing Extremes that became E2 or E3. Tom Proctor hero. 1975 Chouinard Stoppers and Hexcentrics had appeared, traditional part-pegged, part nutted, part free ascent of El Cap. 1976 heroes Allen, Bancroft and Regan - climbing grit and lime in the peak, up to E4ish. 1978 Friends appeared, hammerless ascent of Salathe wall. End of career, restarted in 80s with Fires but had drifted into gliding by 1981 so climbing turned into walls and mountain challenges in Walshes. Still bouldering...


I love how tactile memory can be: rubber that's very stiff and steel carabiners that nip your skin. Interesting to hear you were still racking pegs in 74, too! Thanks for the memories!

Post edited at 23:12
OP C Witter 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Ha! Brilliantly evocative Bivving in N. Wales and trying to find someone in the Vaynol Arms who could let you in on where the routes were - it sounds like it must have been a real step into the unknown for a young'un. You must've been powerfully curious to go and do it at all.

 Tom Valentine 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Don't forget thatPiece of Mind (E6 6b) was first done in EBs..............

OP C Witter 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Thinking on it, I think my favourite story (or legend?!) of climbing past, has to be Al Evans' hilarious account of his adventures on Morecambe promenade and his Trowbarrow FAs: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/bowies_wall_or_how_jean_jeanie...

It's a shame not to be able to ask him if it's really all true!

 Martin Hore 02 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

I started in 1967. The developments in rock climbing gear between then and 1982 were massive and revolutionary, as others have said. In '65 I was wearing crude non-sticky rock boots, tying on to a single hawser-laid rope directly with a bowline or through a hemp waistcord, belaying with a waist belay, and using a few nuts threaded crosswise on knotted rope slings. Oh, and I had a MOAC! Just fifteen years later, in 1982, I had a choice of sticky shoes, a choice of harnesses (not just a Whillans), belay plates (Stichtplate probably), kernmantel half ropes, proper sets of wires (I think rocks had just come in, but stoppers had been around for a while), sewn quick draws (we called them extenders) and my first two Friends.

All the basic developments we now recognise were already in place by the early 80's. Since then it's been evolutionary, incremental development, mostly cutting grams off here and there - but nothing really revolutionary - unless you count bolts.....

Martin

In reply to C Witter:

It was all such an adventure, made the more so by the sparse information. But the experienced climbers were very helpful if you asked them for advice. For example, immediately after Gordon and I had bought our first hex nuts on nylon line in 1968, we pulled into a lay-by in Llanberis to do a climb, and started to fiddle about trying to place these nuts into cracks in the dry stone wall. Eric Jones saw us, and walked over and put us right. A few days later it was raining hard so we went down to Tremadoc, where it was monsoonal. Whilst we were wondering what to do, Eric Jones came over and asked us if we would like to 'do a climb at Hyll-Drem' (whatever that was). So we chased his olive green mini there in our yellow (Basil Fawlty lookalike) mini. I had great difficulty keeping up with Eric, because in those days it was traditional for climbers in North Wales to drive at crazy speeds. Eric led me up Hardd and could not have been a more encouraging leader. In spite of the downpour, the crag was almost dry "although coming round the overhangs was like emerging through a waterfall"! (I'm quoting from my climbing log book.)

 Sherlock 03 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Compton Mk 2 with the chin cup that would collect all the sweat than channeled down the straps....

Removed User 03 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

My 1st route was Pulpit on the Milestone, taken up by John Jones from Og Cottage.                          The Tarbuck Knot .......... Just got my hands on the belay on The Gates and was pulled up short by the last runner that I had clipped into the loop of the Tarbuck knot. I had to reverse the crux as said runner would not lift out unlike all the other's before it. New flangled drilled out nuts!!!!!!                    I can remember it like yesterday not 55 years back.  Cliff Philips was there watching as I recall 

 rka 03 Sep 2020
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

Just after the peoples princess snuffed it in 97 an altar to her appeared on the summit of y wyddfa. I was passing one day and added an apple core to the offerings. Causing much dismay amongst the acolytes tending the shrine.

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 JuneBob 03 Sep 2020
In reply to john arran:

> Post of the year so far, I reckon

Two people (so far) disliked your comment. I presume that they think there were better post(s) this year. If so, I'm curious which post(s) they are?

OP C Witter 03 Sep 2020
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

> I think I can try to chronicle the decline of the sport....

> 1960's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that Joe Brown, the human fly, have you done that Old man of Hoy then?"

> 1970's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that Chris Bonington with the beard, have you done Everest then?"

> 1980's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that French bird with the legs, do you do that free climbing then?"

> 1990's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that Cliffhanger, have you got one of them bolt guns?"

> 2000's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that kid that beat Clarkson to the top of that cliff, do you do that speed climbing and base jumping?"

> 2010's - "So you're a climber eh? Like that Bear Grylls,  Do you drink your own piss?"

> 2020- "So you're a climber eh? Well bloody well get to the back of the queue, some of us have paid good money to get the train up here and don't want our Instagram spoilt by you"


On the basis of all this, it really sounds as though the 1980s were the high point!

 Dave Garnett 03 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

> On the basis of all this, it really sounds as though the 1980s were the high point!

I think they were for me!

 Trangia 03 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Started in 1960 when climbing was just climbing, what we would now call Trad. No protection carried apart from slings to put over handy blocks or spikes. Huge run outs with little if any protection, No harness, tied on with the rope around your waist - bowline. Footware was klets which were suede boots with grooved rubber soles, or Army boots with Commando soles. Some folk were still using nailed boots (I never did). Laid nylon ropes were becoming popular, a few still used hemp. Hemp was favoured for Sandstone top roping. No belay devices, and you used either a shoulder or waist belay. Classic abseil was still being used, although we were starting to use hemp waist bands with a krab through it to pass the rope through rather than under your leg which tended to burn you.

Krabs were made of steel and were either screw gate or simple sprung gate. They were usually Stubai, which you could buy in the Alps, IIRC aluminium Krabs were starting to make an appearance about 1960.

Top roping as in the pully system from the ground through a crab at the top of a crag wasn't generally practiced. The leader would lead and belay at the top to bring up the second using a shoulder belay standing right at the cliff edge so that he could see the second, whilst anchored back to something like a tree or boulder.

Sport and bouldering didn't exist as disciplins their own right although we would play around climbing on boulders near your camp site, or the base of a climb. A few people did solo, but there wasn't a lot of point because leading was itself virtually soloing given the lack of plentiful protection opportunities, and the huge run outs. This made even low grade climbs serious. The highest grade was VS and it covered a really big range of difficulty.

I haven't done any research but I suspect that the number of fatal accidents was higher than today in relation to the overall number of people climbing.

Generally I feel that people were a lot more modest in those days about their achievements, and this led to a nicer culture. Climbers tended to be less egotistical than they appear to be these days, and the emphasis was more on having fun and enjoying yourself rather than trying to self broadcast how good they are. Just look through profile photos these days, where it's about outstanding photos of "self" in action, rather than more modest pics of "self" with action shots of others. I think I've been just as guilty of this but I'm not certain that it's as nice a culture as that of the past.

Post edited at 19:17
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 string arms 03 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Started in the late 70s using my dad's old rack, steel crabs, a hawser rope, moacs and the first wire i ever bought aged 15, a stopper number 3 that always lifted out. Waist belays before getting a second hand whillans harness. First boots were EBs then canyons. Eventually fires which were a real game changer. Big ron was my hero. Lots of hitching to crags, dossing in toilet blocks and barns. Everything had to be on sight. (Never tried red pointing until my 40s). Beer mats for bouldering. Troll chalk bag which had a piece of paper in it which said it wasn't needed for moves under 6a! ( feck that!) Stich plates and then friends. 

Bridges were for training on, then the Blackburn wall and Richard Dunn. Pouring over guide books night after night, lists of routes to be done, then magazines like mountain, crags, and on the edge.

Crags were quieter I think on the whole and most climbers i knew were like me pretty skint but happy. 

My dad has passed away now but I'll always be grateful for the first route he ever took me up ( peascods route on white ghyll when I was13) and the life it opened up for me. 

 Tom Valentine 04 Sep 2020
In reply to string arms:

How old was your dad's hawser rope in the late seventies!?

 Rob Exile Ward 04 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

FWIW one of my first climbs was with school - on Llangattock, in hobnail boots, in a snowstorm, in (I think) 1968. What was all that about?  My first autonomous lead with a mate was Rowan Route on the Milestone Buttress, also in a snowstorm, while Mum sat in the car in the layby on the A5. I don't know what she thought we were doing, it was a full on storm and a near death experience for me! After that things got a bit better; by the Autumn of 1970 I was leading VS and seconding XSs like Grasper, First Slip and Nimbus. 

Funnily enough in the early 70s there we no less than 3 climbing magazines - Climber and Rambler (which I never bought, it was for fuddy duddies), and Rocksport - the definitive enthusiastic amateur publication that definitely implied that South Wales was the epicentre of world mountaineering, with whole articles dedicated to Taff Wells and other Valleys limestone choss fests. Then there was the sublime Mountain, which - with hindsight - was the the thin edge of the wedge. Wilson introduced the highest standards of layout, design, typography and all the rest so that climbing was suddenly no longer anarchic and amateur but mainstream and professional.  

As stated above, hitch hiking was a key component - discovering that you could go just about anywhere just by walking out your front door and sticking your thumb out was revelatory. I'd hitched to Inverness and to Bosigran from Worcester before I was 17; setting off in the morning knowing you wouldn't get to your destination that day was scary! Staying in barns was another big thing, there was one in Bosigran, Tremadog - where you could often find the rent by rummaging through the straw for change that others had dropped - and Humphreys Barn (of course) - I met his daughter in a Liverpool nightclub once, even had a bop with her! Though I never mentioned that to him. 

Gear was of course minimal, and I for one was ashamed if it looked new - shoes had to look worn, ropes fluffy, nuts well used with the sharp edges worn away.  Shiny new gear made you look like a beginner! Viking had this stupid thing, for a while they sold rope in 300' lengths that changed colour in the middle, why I have no idea because the first thing you did when you got one was cut it in half. There were some interesting shoes, Masters, RDs, Gollies - I inherited a pair of red and black things (some variant of PAs, I think) with hard soles that had no friction but were great on edges - even led P2 on Vector in them. Generally I espoused the 'less is good' a bit longer than I should, using waist ties, waist belays and abseil brakes made out of karabiners into the late 70s. This came to an end when I did the Luna Bong abseil with a karabiner brake and a tape sit sling. 

Post edited at 09:59
 john arran 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> Then there was the sublime Mountain, which - with hindsight - was the the thin edge of the wedge. Wilson introduced the highest standards of layout, design, typography and all the rest so that climbing was suddenly no longer anarchic and amateur but mainstream and professional.

Brilliant observation!

 Tom Valentine 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

As a fuddy duddy I looked forward with keen anticipation for The Climber magazine (wasn't the Rambler added to the title later?) mainly because of the superb Climbs of Quality feature .

I think the first one I saw was Deadly Nightshade, very exotic and a bit beyond my grasp, but shortly after came New West on Pillar and that gave me motivation and realistion that there great routes to be done at a very modest standard. Shortly after that I led my first multipitch, Black and White Traverse in Dovestones Lower Left and while my body might have been in Greenfield my mind was high above Ennerdale.

Post edited at 16:25
In reply to john arran:

> > Then there was the sublime Mountain, which - with hindsight - was the the thin edge of the wedge. Wilson introduced the highest standards of layout, design, typography and all the rest so that climbing was suddenly no longer anarchic and amateur but mainstream and professional.

Yes, Wilson's contribution to the whole of British climbing culture simply cannot be exaggerated. Despite what some said about him, he was a lovely guy with a heart of gold, a total enthusiast, and a wonderful perfectionist who raised the bar. I am very honoured to have had him as a good friend. He had this wonderful way of ringing me up out of the blue and we'd chat for hours.

 Rob Exile Ward 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

You're not wrong about Climbs of Quality, with those diagrams by R B Evans. Troutdale Pinnacle was one that always inspired, until I soloed it one evening during a week I spent 'guiding' a friend's Dad up classic fells and easy rock climbs.

 string arms 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Like a steel cable. Thankfully it was never tested with a fall but often a tight tug! 

 John2 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

No, it changed from Climber and Rambler to Climber. I believe the idea was to give a less fuddy-duddy impression of our sport.

 john arran 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I agree his was a very important voice and he had huge energy in tirelessly working for what he believed was right, most of which I agreed with, but not all.

Not long after I started working for the BMC - with responsibility for comps, walls and youth development - he phoned me, as he had done with some frequency to my predecessor in the role, to "give me an earful" (as my BMC colleagues light-heartedly referred to his calls.)

I listened to what he had to say and I explained my own opinions and where we disagreed, after which he never phoned me again. I'm pretty sure he simply couldn't get his head around the fact that someone with a long history of trad and adventure climbing - for which he was the biggest advocate - could also be fully supportive of the new world of comps, training and national teams.

 Michael Hood 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I once picked up a copy of C&R, looked at the featured climbs - Golden Slipper and Astra on Pavey. Ooh I've done Golden Slipper a few years ago I thought. Looked at the piccies; eventually it dawned on me (in hindsight it's obvious but at the time I was thinking, I used to have a pair of grey Ron Hills... and a red helmet... and a shirt that colour... and my brother had a Whillans harness... until the penny finally dropped) that one of the pictures was me at the top of the main pitch belaying my brother up it. Couldn't really believe it - had to buy 2 copies so I could send one to brother who was living abroad by then.

Checked my log, was 10 years earlier. Photo I think was by Bill Birkett who must have been watching from Jack's Rake. I didn't even know anyone was there taking photos. Before digital days and internet so "sharing" wasn't an easily done thing like it is now.

 Richard J 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I only met Ken Wilson twice, both inconsequential encounters.  The first, as a teenager, hitching back with a friend from Froggatt to the friend's mother's house in Tideswell.  A car with two people in the front stopped for us in Calver Sough; the driver motioned to us to get in without breaking his conversation with the passenger.  Somehow we managed to convey that we wanted to get out at the Anchor, but at no point had he even paused the flow of his seemingly unstoppable monologue.  It was, of course, Ken Wilson.

The second was about 15 years ago, when, climbing at Ravensdale, he stopped me to comment on the age of my gear.  Pointing with approval to the deep rope grooves in my figure of 8, he anointed me as clearly being of the right stuff, before having a chat about times gone by.

But I can't overstate how important those Mountain magazines were in forming my ambitions for climbing.  I can still remember the first one I bought - it was the one with Pat Ament's article "In the Black Canyon with Kor", maybe in the mid 1970's.  That's what climbing should be like, not just bumbling up severes at Black Rocks, I thought to myself.  Of course I never realised those youthful ambitions...

 Martin Wood 04 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

> 5. How has climbing become more or less friendly? Or... how have people's attitudes to climbing changed, if you've got any good tales of being chased off by landowners or locals!

Boulders! I'm afraid I've lost the love. They bring more equipment for a 3-metre problem than an alpine ascent. 

 Tom Valentine 04 Sep 2020
In reply to John2:

You aren't as old as me. I'm pretty sure it was "The Climber" in the mid sixties.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

No, it was Climber and Rambler first, until about 67 or 68. I've got a lot of old ones up in the attic, but I'm not going to go and look for them now.

 Derek Furze 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Richard J:

The Black Canyon with Kor is one of my all time favourite articles! ‘A flatus, of so foul and putrid an odour, that all oxygen etc’

 John2 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Well, well. Google provides the answer. 

It was known successively as 

The Climber 1962-1968  'The National Magazine for Hill and Fell-Walkers, Rock Climbers and all Mountaineers. Continues as Climber and Rambler

Climber and Rambler 1969 - 1986 (Incorporates Mountain Life). Continues as Climber

Climber 1986 - Current

You must indeed be older than me.

1
 Tom Valentine 04 Sep 2020
In reply to John2:

Sounds like I'm older than Gordon, too.

Ye gods!

 John2 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

I think it's called flip-flopping. Perhaps the current government could learn a lesson.

 loose overhang 04 Sep 2020
In reply to Derek Furze:

Hi Derek,

I too ran into Russ in N Wales the summer of '74.  We made a deal with him, he'd drive us to any crag he wanted to go to and we'd "guide" him up the classics, but we told him we wouldn't try to get him up anything we deemed too difficult for him.  It worked out great.  I remember my partner led him up Phantom Rib while I coached him from the side.  If I recall, Russ was on a six month part-paid leave from his job at the Australian post office.

We hitched everywhere, but having a friendly and willing Aussie to drive us around was luxury for a while.

Thanks for reminding me of those times.  I'd totally forgotten about Russ, and him being deaf and aiding his way up on his micro-wires.

What I recall from those days was we'd have a limited range of nut sizes, but we'd often find places to put them.  I think the terrain trained our eyes to look for those placements.  Nowadays I find carrying all the possible nut/cam sizes confusing, that's why I always carry hexes.

We made a copy of a belay plate from aluminium stock, first used in '74 to catch me when a large hold fell off in my hand.

Cheers, Andew

 Derek Furze 05 Sep 2020
In reply to loose overhang:

That's brilliant!  It was the same dates for me and I remember the Post Office sabbatical bit as well.  I had lived in Australia prior to this as well, so we had that in common, but I was only sixteen and relatively inexperienced so didn't feel like I could 'guide' him, though in practice some of that happened.  I only climbed with him for three days before I had to head home, but had a decent time anyway.  

Reminds me that I met quite a few people like this and hooked up for a few routes, but Russ was memorable for the comedic quality of the situation.  The thing he said most often - in an Aussie accent - was 'what?', which usually preceded a mad episode of miscommunication.

In reply to John2:

> Well, well. Google provides the answer. 

> It was known successively as 

> The Climber 1962-1968  'The National Magazine for Hill and Fell-Walkers, Rock Climbers and all Mountaineers. Continues as Climber and Rambler

> Climber and Rambler 1969 - 1986 (Incorporates Mountain Life). Continues as Climber

> Climber 1986 - Current

> You must indeed be older than me.

Shows how faulty one's memory can be! I started climbing in 1966 (when I was 16) and don't remember it being called 'Climber'. I suppose it's possible that we didn't buy it then, because we perceived it as a bit of a wally's magazine. The first magazine I remember buying was Mountain Craft which was way better, and continued to get better, until Wilson took it over (in 1969?) and turned it into Mountain, which was absolutely amazing from the beginning. 

It would be interesting to see just what I have in the attic ... a bit of an epic though these days, as I now 'in old age' have a safety rope with a jumar for the quite athletic move through the hatchway from a separate ladder - there isn't a proper hatch ladder.

Post edited at 08:56
 profitofdoom 05 Sep 2020
In reply to Derek Furze:

> The Black Canyon with Kor is one of my all time favourite articles!.....

Me too. It's brilliant. "Layton snatched me up into his arms, pretending to have gone mad and to want to throw me over the edge.... (I) was from then on prepared to bear with personality and fortitude all further absurdity which was destined to occur"

It's in the great anthology THE GAMES CLIMBERS PLAY, which I rebought in Joe Browns in Llanberis for about 12 quid last year, really worth it to me 

 Howard J 05 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

I started in 1972. I'd been fascinated by climbing for some years but never got the chance until I went to university, one of my first actions in freshers' week was to join the mountaineering club.  I soon realised I wasn't very good at it, but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying it.  Joe Brown was my hero, obviously.

Clothing was woollen walking breeches with red socks.  I bought a thick long-sleeved woollen shirt after seeing the rope-burns a companion had suffered from holding a fall wearing only a T-shirt.  Fibre-pile fleece and neoprene knee-length cagoule topped it off.

Footwear: Hawkins Walkin's and Dunlop Green Flash.  I felt a bit of a fraud when I bought a pair of EBs, as I only climbed around V Diff and the occasional Severe.  It was common for people to climb VS and even harder in big boots.  For winter, flexible crampons held on not very securely with nylon straps, and a wooden ice axe.

No 4 Viking hawser-laid rope tied with a bowline around the waist, and a body belay.  Later we gratefully adopted the Whillans harness, and later still the Sticht Plate.  My first rack comprised 9 items: 3 wedges on stiff wire, the rest a mixture of wedges (including the obligatory MOAC) and hexes threaded on cord.  Also a few slings made from knotted tape, and I had one from spliced nylon hawser which was crag swag.  Heavy steel krabs, as aluminium ones were too expensive.

Even low grade routes could be quite run-out, and you just accepted that was how it was.  VS was considered dead 'ard, and Extremes were another world.  I knew only a handful of climbers who climbed VS-HVS, and none who did Extremes.  There seemed to be a lot more difference in grades between different areas.

Despite better protection and better footwear grade inflation is real.  I reckon I'm climbing at least a grade harder than in my 20s, and I'm still doing the same routes.

It was not unusual for the mountain rescue teams to go round the pubs looking for volunteers to help with a carry - I learned not to wear my boots to walk down to the pub.  It was friendly, but at the same time there was a lot of local rivalry at all levels, and not just amongst those doing new routes.  We learned to view any advice given by locals with a degree of suspicion.

I've never been much good, still only manage VS on a good day (which is really only Severe in old money) but climbing has brought me enormous pleasure over the last 5 decades.  It's taken me to some amazing places and I've made some great friends.

 Derek Furze 05 Sep 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

I dug out Games Climbers Play for a reread and really enjoyed it again - laugh out loud enjoyable, but poignant as well.  Another brilliant bit when the haul bag disappears with his rucksack teetering on top.  'The heavy bundle remained intact and was dragged over a bulge and up into a place hidden from my view where, by all indications, Kor was losing his mind with anger.'  I also noted it was from Mountain 50, which included The Shroud by Terry King - another absolute classic.

OP C Witter 05 Sep 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> FWIW one of my first climbs was with school - on Llangattock, in hobnail boots, in a snowstorm, in (I think) 1968. What was all that about?  My first autonomous lead with a mate was Rowan Route on the Milestone Buttress, also in a snowstorm, while Mum sat in the car in the layby on the A5. I don't know what she thought we were doing, it was a full on storm and a near death experience for me! After that things got a bit better; by the Autumn of 1970 I was leading VS and seconding XSs like Grasper, First Slip and Nimbus. 

Ha! Brilliant! I love the idea of all these adults just sending you out in howling snow storms. No wonder you were going strong so soon after: climbing on a sunny day must have felt like cheating.

> Then there was the sublime Mountain, which - with hindsight - was the the thin edge of the wedge. Wilson introduced the highest standards of layout, design, typography and all the rest so that climbing was suddenly no longer anarchic and amateur but mainstream and professional.  

I can only imagine how Ken Wilson would react to being told that, after all, it wasn't chalk or bolts but his editing that was actually "the thin edge of the wedge"!

 profitofdoom 05 Sep 2020
In reply to Derek Furze:

> I dug out Games Climbers Play for a reread and really enjoyed it again - laugh out loud enjoyable, but poignant as well.  Another brilliant bit when the haul bag disappears with his rucksack teetering on top.  'The heavy bundle remained intact and was dragged over a bulge and up into a place hidden from my view where, by all indications, Kor was losing his mind with anger.'  I also noted it was from Mountain 50, which included The Shroud by Terry King - another absolute classic.

Thanks for that. PS "The Black Canyon with Kor" can also be found on Supertopo (for those without GAMES CLIMBERS PLAY), here's the link:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2125653/the-Black-Canyon-with-Kor-b...

OP C Witter 05 Sep 2020
In reply to Howard J:

> Clothing was woollen walking breeches with red socks.  I bought a thick long-sleeved woollen shirt after seeing the rope-burns a companion had suffered from holding a fall wearing only a T-shirt.  Fibre-pile fleece and neoprene knee-length cagoule topped it off.

Wow! You must have been warm in that lot! I don't know how you can have walked uphill.

Thanks for sharing your memories

 Dave Cundy 05 Sep 2020
In reply to Howard J:

 

> It was not unusual for the mountain rescue teams to go round the pubs looking for volunteers to help with a carry - I learned not to wear my boots to walk down to the pub.

My much missed friend Mike Tolley used to say the same thing.  Back in the 70s, they'd have been down Gaping Ghyll for eight hours, got back to the pub in Clapham, just enjoying the first pint.  And then a figure would appear at the door, scanning the bar for cavers.  Everyone would be knackered, hungry and thirsty. The last thing they wanted was to put their cold wet gear on and spend another six hours on a rescue. Apparently, they would all stare at their pint, desperately trying not to catch the eye of the 'recruiter'.

 Howard J 05 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

> Wow! You must have been warm in that lot! I don't know how you can have walked uphill.

That was before global warming.

 Lankyman 05 Sep 2020
In reply to Dave Cundy:

> My much missed friend Mike Tolley used to say the same thing.  Back in the 70s, they'd have been down Gaping Ghyll for eight hours, got back to the pub in Clapham, just enjoying the first pint.  And then a figure would appear at the door, scanning the bar for cavers.  Everyone would be knackered, hungry and thirsty. The last thing they wanted was to put their cold wet gear on and spend another six hours on a rescue. Apparently, they would all stare at their pint, desperately trying not to catch the eye of the 'recruiter'.

I was a young caver then and remember the rush to volunteer when a 'famous' (let's call him Colon Bathrobe) caver got stuck in a tight spot. Apparently, folks just wanted to have a laugh. Imagine Jerry Moffat needing rescuing from a ledge on Stanage.

Post edited at 17:05
 loose overhang 05 Sep 2020
In reply to Derek Furze:

Hi Derek,

It's interesting how our memories of those younger days come back so easily.  I was all of 21 at the time and was on the dole in N. Wales.  We took Russ up most cliffs in the Pass, up Cloggy and to Gogarth and elsewhere.  I think he was with us about a week, in May or June, and he was able to tick most moderate classics. 

We climbed every day and had been doing so pretty much from early April that year until we "enjoyed" 10 days in the Dolomites sitting out the incessant rain before packing up and heading to Chamonix.  Of course hitch-hiking everywhere.

 Derek Furze 06 Sep 2020
In reply to loose overhang:

All this made me check my old log!  I was fairly new to climbing as my two days with Russ appear on 16th and 17th July on page 4 of my log.  Both days were at Tremadoc and I led my first HVS (Meshach) with him in tow, amongst some of the other classic ticks, before heading off to join my parents in Cyprus.  Sounds like you managed to maintain the perfect lifestyle in those days - I didn't climb again until October!

 Michael Hood 06 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Cars and car journey's to go climbing; some memorable ones, mostly from the 70's & 80's...

Four of us going (from Leicester) to Snowdonia for the weekend in Shell's Austin (or maybe Morris) 1100 mid 70's. Climbing on Idwal Slabs in the wet and then on the way back to Capel (going round to camp at the Cromlech) having a massive (and I mean MASSIVE) skid, over-correction followed over-correction with the swings getting wider and wider until (inevitably) we got wide enough to hit some dry stone wall which damped the oscillations down to a stop. So f**king lucky that nothing was coming the other way.

Same trip, driving past the Victoria Hotel - a sheep eating the grass on top of one of the entrance pillars!

Taking my mum's mini clubman estate places it wasn't really meant to go in the late 70's - remember when you could drive up to Millstone - 1 underneath scrape on the way up, 4 on the way down.

Rich's minivan not quite making the squeeze between the overtaken car and the bus coming the other way (if the bus had kept straight rather than pulling in - made the rear end stick out a bit more - then we'd have made it).

Journeys to the Peak in Pete's (petemeads of this parish) Escort RS2000 with the stereo cassette blasting out David Bowie.

A rather (understatement here) fast journey from Black Rocks to Huncote in Phil's (can't remember his surname but he had huge hands) Simca van - 45 minutes!!! - it's over 50 miles - I remember him doing a lot of middle lane out of 3 (when there were only 2 lanes) on the A6 and I don't think the engine could go any faster on the M1.

Paul Parker taking his VW Beetle all the way along W-C-J to Rubicon Wall. I suspect that car ended up in many other unusual places.

Taking 2hrs 45min from Leicester to Ogwyn in my first car (Vauxhall Chevette) without going over 65. A time which would be difficult to improve nowadays with our faster cars and "improved" roads.

In my first car with a decent engine (Vauxhall Cavalier 1.8 SRi) taking 1min 50sec to get up Hardknott Pass (from the start of the steep bit on the Wrynose side) with 5 plus everyone's gear in the car.

Amir driving his Porsche 924 up the Stoney track to below Prayer-wheel wall and us virtually belaying out of the car. Even Ron gave an approving nod on his way past.

Interestingly (and maybe worryingly - or maybe not 😁), I can't think of any memorable car incidents from more recent times.

Post edited at 10:26
 Derek Furze 06 Sep 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Yes - this also awakens some great trips.  Leaving Wales after one final session in the Vaynol and coming around the fast sweeps along the road heading towards Plas Y Brenin in the dark, we suddenly saw a herd of cows all over the road.  I thought they were soldiers!  The driver did a good deal of swerving while slowing, but the last one ended up on the bonnet and over the roof.  It ran off, so seemed OK, but the car headlights now pointed skywards and the roof was a fair bit lower, making the journey back to Bedford long and uncomfortable.  Also had a front wheel blowout on the M6 in a three wheeler Del Boy wagon, which necessitated use of all four lanes.  Much later, had a minor head on shunt in snow in the same three wheeler and ended up sat in something resembling a chassis as the bodywork largely disintegrated around us.

 Michael Hood 06 Sep 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Forgot one, Ray Dring's Lancia, the rush to get the windows down when the dog (a crazy boxer) farted.

 Grumps 06 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

1961 coming back fro N Wales on my Lambretta which broke down in Birmingham.  Was towed back to London by a friend in an MG down the M1 using my nylon waist length as a tow rope

 mark s 06 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

 once I was at the roaches top roping thing on a spring before I led it. he shouted up at me about how disgusted simon (nadin) would be of me.

OP C Witter 06 Sep 2020

Evocative stuff - but it was the "p.s." about the Lancia that really got me giggling. I must have a childish sense of humour

OP C Witter 07 Sep 2020
In reply to lithos:

Great snap! I like that the climber in the foreground seems to be climbing in one decade (rugby top, jeans, EBs), whilst the guy in the background (three-quarter length woollen trousers, long socks and flat cap) seems to be climbing in another.

 lithos 07 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

that's me in the foreground, 1979/1980 ish,  - we used troll waist belts, steel krabs and blue 12mm polyprop rope from a chandlers and body belays, happy days

you are right about the others there, we were just school kids 17ish

 Lankyman 07 Sep 2020
In reply to lithos:

Wasn't it Gary Gibson who popularised the rugby shirt 'look'? I seem to remember early B&W pictures of him in Crags mag late 70s.

 lithos 07 Sep 2020
In reply to Lankyman:

yeah maybe, that was my school colours, purple and white

 steveriley 07 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Back in the 80s I used to have working knees. Cheerfully bouldering above a beermat assuming you'd somehow find the flat spot in an otherwise rocky landing. If it was alright for Alf Bridges, you assumed it would somehow work out. Nowadays I drag 2 mats to the most benign lowballs.

Also in the 80s 2 crabs clipped together was considered a quickdraw. Quite the thing.

 Rob Exile Ward 07 Sep 2020
 Mick Ward 07 Sep 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

'What did you do there?  I got high...'

Mick

1
OP C Witter 07 Sep 2020
In reply to Christheclimber:

Christthelycra! Fantastic! I wonder if you can even find clothing that colourful in the C21st.

 alan moore 07 Sep 2020
In reply to Christheclimber:

Difficult to unsee that one.

 Michael Hood 07 Sep 2020
In reply to Christheclimber:

I remember lycra tights being the rage (I only got as far as patterned Ron Hills), but that collection on the 3 of you is very impressive. More lurid than a lot of what was seen on messers Pollitt and Atkinson 😁

In reply to Lankyman:

Those of us who went to schools that played rugby had to buy those shirts. We wore them from 1966 on for climbing, because that was what we had, not because of any "look". But we found they were really good for climbing because they were so tough. As I said in a comment on your photos, mine lasted for about ten years of continual hard use after I left school.

 Greenbanks 08 Sep 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Excellent thread - one of the best from recent years

All this talk of old kit & clothing got me rooting through my office, to find these two gems - the trusty MOAC and a micro on wire. Both of 1970ish vintage. The former is still cherished, though not used now.

Another kit item that saw service this weekend was my old Wild Country sac, still doing great work, well over 35 years since its debut. Probably good for the same again. Wish I could say the same for my performance on the rock...

Thanks


 Lankyman 08 Sep 2020
In reply to Greenbanks:

Old kit probably has lots of threads of its own. I have similar pieces lurking in dark, hidden places. One remarkable piece of kit that stands out in my mind was the Clog Cog that a friend of mine had back in the mid-seventies. I suppose we must have used it somewhere - when you carry something you'll wobble it in eventually, even if it's rubbish.

 Greenbanks 08 Sep 2020
In reply to Lankyman:

Appropo of the OP, I think there's enough here to compile a decade-definer for each of climber, route, gear innovation, guidebook, controversy, etc etc. If I have some down-time I just might give it a go...

OP C Witter 08 Sep 2020
In reply to Greenbanks:

> Excellent thread - one of the best from recent years

> All this talk of old kit & clothing got me rooting through my office, to find these two gems - the trusty MOAC and a micro on wire. Both of 1970ish vintage. The former is still cherished, though not used now.

> Another kit item that saw service this weekend was my old Wild Country sac, still doing great work, well over 35 years since its debut. Probably good for the same again. Wish I could say the same for my performance on the rock...

> Thanks

Thanks for sharing your memories and the picture of your trusty MOAC. I've been really enjoying reading everyone's stories, seeing their photos and generally engaging in vicarious nostalgia. I hope I manage to clock up 50-odd and more years of climbing....! Touch wood!

Post edited at 20:50

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