UKC

Turned up at base of Troutdale Pinaccle this morning. There was a dog loose with no owner to be seen but rucksacks at the base.

I led the pretty damp first pitch. And while I was belaying my second up, the dog climbed up to join me at the belay. It was whimpering and was desperate to see its owner. 

After some shouting up the crag, realised that the dog belonged to a climber at the end of pitch 3. The owner didn’t seem bothered, told me that the dog was used to it and was a good climber. And that I should tell the dog to go down. 

Meanwhile the dog was whimpering and tripping over the ropes at my feet. I would have felt really guilty and responsible if the dog had slipped and fallen 20 meters down the cliff.

After leaving the dog behind which tried to follow us up pitch 2. We caught up the owner who didn’t think they’d done anything wrong. Didn’t seem bothered that we could have inadvertently killed his dog. And didn’t apologise. Instead he said he was a local who climbed 200 days a year with his dog and then asked me how long I’d been climbing for. 
 

Thankfully the dog made it back down to the base of the crag unharmed. 
 

Not a great experience and his lack of control and negligence of his dog definitely put a dampener on the day. 
 

I also own a dog that I wouldn’t take and leave alone off the lead at the base of a big crag.

In reply to IainMay:

There are many climbing prats with dogs. If you have a dog then keep it at home.

In reply to The Pylon King:

FTFY

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

FTFY

In reply to IainMay:

Ahahaha. In the Lakes? Must be pretty skilled on wet rock.....

In reply to The Pylon King:

FTFY

In reply to felt:

Made it even more succinct:

In reply to fire_munki:

Good idea but prats by definition will be too stupid to realise that they are in fact a prat.  Any self awareness of pratish behaviour should lead to corrective action therefore leading to the prat no longer being a prat. 

So sorry, but I think we're stuck with prats and their pratish behaviour!

In reply to IainMay:

Me too.  And having had to help carry a dog with a broken back down from a crag in similar circumstances I think I'd been pretty direct with the owner.

In reply to The Pylon King:

Indeed, two weeks ago (on a busy Saturday), a chap left a 'crag' dog tied out at Stennis Head then he left and went to a different crag. About 15 of us had to listen to the dog barking for a good half an hour.

I am all for dogs, but this is pretty rich. 

In reply to IainMay:

Several years ago we had an incident on Great End Crag on Scafell. The owners were climbing central Gully and their dogs tried to follow and got as far as the junction. They tried to follow up the next pitch  but ended up falling to the base of the crag. The owners were locals and were totally not bothered and said they would be fine. Sounds like the same irresponsible idiots  to me.

In reply to Root1:

did you post a report at the time?  I seem to remember someone mentioning that incident on Great End.

In reply to IainMay:

You were incredibly patient. I'd have gone pretty mad just finding it loose at the bottom of the crag. Taking a dog to a crag like that is completely ridiculous.

In reply to Root1:

I was there too and recall the resulting argy bargy on here. Somebody I know ended up abbing part way back down with one of the dogs.

ETA ... it was on Great End actually.

In reply to IainMay:

I've probably met the same prat. He barged through us on Middlefell Buttress (tho his client was struggling and then held us up) and the dog came up every pitch. 

Not sure why some people feel it's fine to be obnoxious, as well as a prat.

In reply to IainMay:

For this to be considered classic UKC Gold we need the dog to come on here and post his rebuttal.  

Perhaps he wasn't 'whimpering' but simply trying to offer the OP advice about how best to protect a second on the traverse pitch?

In reply to IainMay:

It least the beast was pretty friendly. Decades ago I encountered a pretty rabid shit machine at rhe bottom  small crag near Kyle. For no apparent reason it decided to approach my ankle growling it's head off whilst it's owner just sat and watched. After administering a deftly aimed tap to it's muzzle, administered with minimal force, it slunk off back to its owner. Who then started ranting about me kicking his dog. Of course now days the cult of fire has become a force to be reckoned with and  I could be   arrested and prosecuted by the RSPCA for simply defending myself. Leave your dogs at home.

In reply to The Pylon King:

Or if you have a dog choose a single pitch crag and keep it under control. 

In reply to Babika:

So he is a guide / instructor then. Probably makes it worse.

In reply to IainMay:

I don't recall many objecting when Ron Fawcett regularly went out soloing with a dog in tow?

In reply to Sean Kelly:

Ah but you forget coomandments #1 and #2 of ukc.

He who climbs the hardest has the most valid opinion.

Thou shalt not criticise the sponsored hero. 

In reply to Sean Kelly:

Did Ron's dog climb up routes behind him - some climber 😁

More seriously, if this was in the Peak on gritstone then it's not the same as a multipitch cliff, however it still needs the dog to be reasonably behaved.

In reply to steveb2006:

From the description, it's not at all clear that the Troutdale Pinnacle incident and Middlefell Buttress experience involved the same climber / dog.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

But Billy was a well behaved dog. 

In reply to Matt Podd:

My other thought was that if Ron was soloing, then he'd never be away from the dog for more than a couple of minutes and most of that he'd be in view.

In reply to steveb2006: If so, this is illustrative of the generally low quality of guides and instructors found on the crags these days. Most of whom seem to have little regard for others  users, and seem to consider the crag environment as a resource for their own personal enrichment.

In reply to Sandstonier:

A bit of a damning generalisation?

In reply to Sandstonier:

I am afraid that I have to say that I have a experienced similar lack of consideration more than once from so called "instructors" which have set very bad examples to their pupils on how to behave in the mountains and on crags. Route hogging, not allowing a faster experienced party arriving at the base of a multi pitch at the same time to go first, taking groups of beginners onto eroding southern sandstone with inappropriate footwear, or taking such parties onto southern sandstone when its been raining and the rock is fragile, "bagging" several single pitch routes by leaving ropes draped down them and not using them immediately, abseiling down routes in use etc etc

Going back to the subject of this thread I once had an annoying delay whilst winter climbing in the Mamores. We had walked up past a farm, where a Yellow Labrador latched onto us, and carried on with us right up into the mountains. We could not shake him off despite shouting at him and trying to send him back. There was a lot of snow and eventually we reached a point where it became necessary to don crampons. The dog continued with us up ever steepening nevee, until we were having to front point. At this stage we tried really hard to send him down, but he wouldn't. Then he got to the stage where he was digging in his claws like crampons. We got worried that if he slipped it would be a nasty fall, and he started to panic. So we made a harness from the rope, put it round him, and with one belaying him, and one climbing beside him we tried to get him down, until he reached safer ground. He was whimpering and panicking whilst we did this. Then when I judged it to be safe, I untied him and tried to push him to go home, before cramponing back up towards my mate. 

What did the dog do? By this time he had regained his confidence and started trying to follow me back up again, until once again he became stuck and frightened! We had to repeat the lowering off procedure again, and yet again he tried to follow me up. At this stage we had lost so much time that we had to abandon our plans for the day and descended to the valley again with the, by now, happy labrador cavorting around us. We were none too pleased and intent on letting the people at the farm know this, but there was no sign of anyone, so we left the dog there and thankfully he lost interest in following us on further down.

In reply to Lankyman:

Based on numerous incidents. And because  climbing is .now an Olympic can only get worse. Bad news for the professionals who don't commandeer crags, trash routes or endanger the lives of other climbers.

In reply to Lankyman:

That's a very diplomatic way of putting it. I'd have just said: "like most of the people on this thread, you're talking out of your arse."

In reply to Trangia:

What a heart-warming story. It's like Homeward Bound all over again - I'm tearing up! Did you give the dog a name?

In reply to Becky E:

True - but it is suggested that it could be.

In reply to steveb2006:

No it isn't at all - someone has drawn a conclusion based on the presence of a climber and a dog, but nothing to suggest that either the climbers or dogs were the same in both incidents.

I really hate it when people make generalisations or draw conclusions based on insufficient evidence, which is why I pointed it out.

In reply to wercat:

I certainly did.

In reply to cathsullivan:

We were just above the dog when it fell. 

(Jeff Breen)

In reply to Root1:

Ah! Hello. I was gearing up at the bottom. With my own dog - who was far too lazy to try and climb anything.

In reply to Becky E:

This is the quote from Babika I was referring to (for you to re-read)....  

"I've probably met the same prat. He barged through us on Middlefell Buttress (tho his client was struggling and then held us up) and the dog came up every pitch"

I'll think you'll find it does suggest / imply that this may have been the same person - it is not saying it definitly was

In reply to IainMay:

Impressed by the dog’s climbing ability but did you ask what it had ever done on grit?

In reply to cathsullivan:

Haha!

I took my three legged dog up Custs Gully many years ago. He front pointed up the steepening and overtook a roped party. It was touch and go whether he was going to make it over the small cornice, but a couple of solid placements got him over the top.

In reply to steveb2006:

I'm aware of what Babika said, but as there was nothing in the original post to indicate what either the climber or the dog looked like, their suggestion/implication that the incidents were perpetrated by the same person totally lacking in evidence.  It is nothing more than an un-evidenced supposition.

In reply to IainMay:

While a teenager and gibbering about on my first winter climb (no-one told me you had to 'kick' the ice....) on C Gully on Pikes Crag, we got overtaken by a friendly soloist.... closely followed by his dog. I've never felt so demeaned!

So for maintenance-of-ego reasons alone - supported by the fact that I don't own a dog - it's obvious that all dogs should be banned from crags.

D.