UKC

Hi

I'm replacing my half ropes. Although everyone always says it's good to have the extra 10m of rope for belays, I can't remember any situations where I've need more than a 50. Are the Lakes any different? Also, any recommendations on good deals on a pair would be gratefully received. 

Thanks 

Edmund

In reply to Ed morris:

It's your choice - extra weight and faffage v. the possible opportunity of running 2 pitches together now and then with all the extra drag entailed. FWIW I started out climbing with 45m ropes (and did plenty of lakes trad) and never ran out of rope.

In reply to Ed morris:

I personally wouldn't be without 60's. I find myself linking pitches together quite often. The biggest advantage is for the extra length abseiling which is super important for some crags in Ireland. 

The answer is always with this sort of stuff 'it depends'. 

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Quite. Most of the classics were put up with pre-metric 150 or even 120ft ropes, and I only had 50m ropes until comparatively recently and have never had a problem.

That said, doesn't Footless Crow have a famously long main pitch? 

In reply to Ed morris:

For the vast vast majority of Lakes climbing 50s are absolutely fine. I can think of one occasion where I needed the full length of a 60 to find a belay.

In reply to Ed morris:

I’m a recent convert to 60m, as two of my climbing partners use them. Do you need them for Lakes trad? No. But they make it possible to do longer routes more quickly by joining pitches, especially on routes where belays are a long way back. One (unforeseen) downside is that you may find you need a bigger rack as well; a double pitch of 40/50m will take a lot of gear, unless you are happy to run it out.

In reply to Ed morris:

I've always climbed on  double 50m ropes (9mm) in the Lakes (except on Sports climbs) It's rare to get pitches above 40m, unless you are climbing E6. I find the flexibility of two half ropes, both for avoiding rope drag and protecting the second, works well. 

Occasionally one of my mates brings a 60m rope and the belay ledges look like spaghetti.  As for the rope to buy, it's really a personal choice. I've always used Beal ropes. My mates use different makes. I've never noticed any differences in the handling quality. 

In reply to Ed morris:

No, as previously explained.

60m ropes can also be a right pain on shorter pitches. On a 25m pitch you have 35m of spare rope to faff around with.

In reply to Ed morris:

Bentley Beetham had a pair of 60's from George Fisher's and he did loads in the Lakes.

In reply to Ed morris:

Unless you have lots of spare energy to carry the excess, flake out the ropes, take in the excess, coil the ropes I'd say 50m is plenty, or even more than enough. There aren't many pitches longer than 40m on the routes I do. 

In reply to Ed morris:

I like having 60s. There's a couple of abseils where they're needed and I like doing mega-pitches of 50m where practical so it's nice to be able to make a belay at the end. 

In reply to Ed morris:

No.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Yes, my first rope was single a Viking nylon 120ft. Used that for two years, then first 45m doubles ... used 45m then for about 25 years, then I think it was 50m (I'm sure I've never had 60m doubles - that's higher than Dinas Cromlech, isn't it? The idea of carrying that amount of rope up to a remote mt crag on a hot summer's day doesn't bear thinking about.). 

In reply to Ed morris:

No, they are a pain in the arse, imI believe many routes were put up with 100 foot ropes.

I have climbed on Gimmer with 30 mtr Halves no problems.

When you have 60s it takes ages to pull them in and you end up in a nest of ropes.

Some people say you can run pitches together, but I am never really sure why they need to.

Get 50s

Ps, why buy a pair, buy a 50 and a 60, that way you can match your partner, though a pair of matched ropes us a joy.

In reply to Ed morris:

If you do a 'LOT' of climbing, 60's are great as you can chop the ends once they get worn. You defo don't need them though, and it's a fair bit of added weight to carry into a mountain crag. 

In reply to Lankyman:

Bentley Beetham had a pair of 60's from George Fisher's

Aye, but they were 60 foot, not metres!😉

Steve

In reply to Ed morris: No. 50m ropes are enough for Lake District trad. I’m Lakes based and use 50m ropes for UK trad, but have a pair of 60m ropes for Alpine and Scottish winter where the extra length is useful for pitches and abseils. 

In reply to Steve Clegg:

Doh! So that's why he did Corvus in 28 pitches.

In reply to J1234:

With loads of belays. No ta. 

You don't need to, it's just often more fun. I reckon you could get rid of around 50% of the belays in the guidebooks. 

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Sat on a belay enjoying the view and a wimberry is the best bet 😁

Maybe if ate i less wimberries I would be a better climber.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Although I have worn the ends of single sports ropes I don't recall, in 55 years, of ever wearing the ends of trad doubles.

To the OP one disadvantage of running pitches together, other than needing to carry more gear, is that you may spoil the multi pitch experience.

Al

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Only if you run both pitches into one. It’s correct to say that nearly al classic Lakes E5/6,s were done on double 150ft ropes.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Why hog all the leads? (assuming your partner has equal ability / psyche)

In reply to Ed morris:

I used 60s for years thinking t was the for the best. I would relegate my winter roes (where 60 is an advantage) to rock ropes once the dry treatment had worn off. 

Last year I got a great deal on a pair of 50s and I am convinced. Lighter, lower volume (more pies) less to pull through. I have climbed all over the lakes with them and never come up short.

The Ichabod abseil is slightly more comfortable using 60s,you get to the second larger grassy ledge. That's the only very minor niggle I have noticed so far. 

In reply to Ed morris:

Of the old classics Extol is the only one that springs to mind. I could have done with 60s to reach a decent belay but they were unknown in the mid 1970s.

In reply to Ed morris:

No, 60's will mostly just add faff and sap energy on walk-ins. Years ago I had a pair of 60's and chopped them to 50 as the extra was never needed. I climb mostly in the Lakes, can't say I've been to every crag here, but lots of them.

In reply to Andy Long:

Extol was OK on 150s(45m) ropes. It was tempting to use a lot of rope on the hangover belay but as the guidebook stated 150 foot pitch , the second was usually told to start stripping the belay if required, and start climbing when the rope ran out.

I also did Footless on 150s but the same instructions left Frank on the hard move leaving Athanor whilst I was hugging a tree at the top without any spare slings  

In both cases a lot of gear still on the rope so just a story for the pub not the funeral bash.

50s for me in the lakes.

In reply to Ed morris:

No

the now rather unfashionable 45m ropes are Great for mountain trad, mind, I do walk off.

In reply to Andy Long:

Me too in early 80s, but 50s did the job, just. I expect Whillans had 150 foot ropes - 45m or thereabouts.  Are you the Andy Long that is Pete Long's brother? How is he?

In reply to Ed morris:

The short answer is no. However carrying the extra 10m of unneeded rope up to the crag will ensure a better cardiac workout.

In reply to Ed morris:

No! Some younger climbers still manage to get up lakes trad! If you want a full 'when I were a lad' lakes trad, then you need 60's.

Being serious 60m halves are the best option. Shorter can be a problem when running pitches together or abbing off. Longer are a pain to carry/coil/handle. 

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Just got the lakes guide, the first thing I saw that I fancied was a 60m single pitch 🙄.

In reply to Martin Bennett:

Yes, I am he. Pete is fine, see E-mail.