UKC

Eastern Grit will sell out next year and we are thinking about a fairly major 'refresh' rather than just reprinting it. This gives us the chance to add extra routes/crags - so is there anything you think should be included/was missed last time around?

Possible venues that come to my mind are White Tor (Dovestones), a small selection of the best (!) routes from Rivelin Quarries, The Rat (Ladybower) and Bauston Tor (Black Rocks).

Chris

For Info - the current book has 4050 routes in it, including 1337 on Stanage - which oddly is more than the 'Definitive'. I am sure we could squeeze another couple of hundred in there, if they actually exist.

Chris

It's not more routes on Stanage than in the definitive... and that it's close illustrates one of the biggest problems with the excellent Eastern Grit in my view.... occasionally too much focus on trivia for the sake of completeness, that should not be in a selective guidebook (those Bamford micro-routes are another example), plus inclusion of a few really shit overgrown routes and many really good overlooked sections on more selectively covered crags and excellent climbs on non included crags that a selective guide of that size, illustrating the best of Eastern Gritstone should have covered. An overview summary table of all missing crags linked to the logbooks would also be sensible cross-marketing, given the Ap.

Cocking Tor and Turningstone Edge! Lovely Rock and great routes in an unusual East facing setting (and gritstone doesn't get much more Eastern) 🙂

I still use (and treasure) my 2001 Peak Gritstone East. Actually, I found it at Bamford in about 2003.  I've never been tempted to buy the newer ones since as they just seemed be bulky at twice the size of that edition. However, I didn't realise that it was quite so comprehensive at Stanage as you say. Is the most recent edition just as comprehensive at the other crags?

Does Eastern Grit really have more Stanage routes in it than the definitive? 

I'm glad they are as I did 45 of them on my 44th Birthday (wanted to make sure I had a spare in hand just in case I had miscounted!) a few years back. I used Eastern Grit that day I think. 

I'd second that some great, and generally clean, routes on those crags. 

Never been to Bauston tor allthough its been sort of on my radar for a while, any good sub E4?

Not sure about Ladybower quarry, apart from the rat, which I thought was hard and a bit loose in places, my abiding memory of the place is a f*ckton of massive perched blocks!

Interestingly when I go to Stanage I normally take the BMC guide because at least for my low grade (and often no star) solo ramblings there is stuff in the definitive that isn't in the Rockfax. There are some not very good ridge like things sticking out of the bracken and the hillside in the "Away from it all" sector that come to mind for example. So I don't quite know how Gritstone East can have more routes in it? Then again this summer I've mainly just used the app on my phone and have still found esoteric things that way to fill a few evening solo visits.

+1 for Turningstone. Stanton maybe?

Here's a thought, probably not a great one.... What about writing up Duke's and the Robin Hood quarries? Would being in a Rrockfax be enough to bring them back to life? If they cleaned up they'd be pretty amazing.

You're just kidding yourself by claiming easier boulder problems as routes.

They are already in there unless I am very mistaken,

Chris

When I was working on the last edition I decided to try and include all the routes that get done on all the cliffs, otherwise folks would need two books, one for the good stuff and one for the 'rest',

Chris

Just had a look and they are in there

That would be a hell of a lot of cleaning! I've only been to Dukes quarry once, and allthough it's an impressive place in a Jurassic park kinda way, I wasn't particularly inspired to go back.

I've climbed Great Crack 5 times now as its so good and about 10 other worthwhile routes.

With currently three other selective guides on the market - True Grit, Wired, and the forthcoming Vertebrate/Graham Hoey book - combined with the fact that the BMC have now said they aren't doing guidebooks anymore, I'd say the gap in the market has curiously opened at the definitive end of the spectrum.

As Chris says, we include routes that get ticks on UKC Logbooks. At places like Stanage this turns out to be virtually everything!

Alan

god! Do we need another selected Grit guide?  I’m still using my 2001 eastern grit rockfax. Covered in gaffer tape. 

Fair doos sounds like I should go back with a more open mind. Apart from great crack, which is indeed great, the only route I got on was Dharma (on a top rope!!) Now that was an absolutely quality route and would be a mega classic at the grade anywhere else, but I guess rarely comes into condition.

...where many n00bs get pwn3d.

there is one good route there. The Rat. 

I did the VS to the left of Great Crack back in May with Dave G, his lead actually. It was quite good, but could do with some traffic and maybe a brush and the rock wasn't beyond suspicion in a few places. There are some other VSs next to it although they looked even less loved.

We walked around Robin Hood Quarries that afternoon, but didn't get on anything, even during that hot dry spell, there was still some seepage and things definitely need a brush. We were also waiting to hear the Dominic Cummings press conference where we were naively expecting him to resign! 

I just go by what's in the guidebook. Are they not in the BMC guide as routes? I don't think I'm really kidding myself over anything though - it's not like my sponsorship rides on such acts of athletic prowess and daring do.  

It's derring-do. When it comes to English aphorisms you should really try harder to tow the line.

I've just looked it up! You learn something new every day (although it's remembering all those new things that I'm finding increasingly problematic with age!).

Perhaps Yarncliffe Edge (not the quarries) - there are some newish routes put up by Seb Grieve a few years ago that I wouldn't mind having a crack at assuming I could find them! I think Rivelin Quarries is a good shout too.

Isn't rockfax including routes that get UKC ticks a self fulfilling prophecy? There are great crags near me disappearing under grass and mud because they don't have many visitors - inclusion in a selective guide might change that.

More isn't always more. These venues are pretty esoteric by most people's standards.

If you live in london for instance and you get out climbing a couple of weekends a month during the summer, with your time spread between several different areas I personally think you want a guide to the best crags and routes not a guidebook padded out with esoteric venues that frankly are mainly of interest to locals only.

Perhaps some of these venues would be better covered fully in App form to preserve climbing record given that the dwindling sales of definite guidebooks in the peak mean that the producing new definite guides is now no longer viable hence the BMC no longer starting another series. Or perhaps rockfax can use their brand following to start producing definite guides instead and revive the definite guidebook?

Well not before we included them for the first time in the last guide because they had UKC ticks. Even so, is that a bad thing?

Alan

How about Bell Hagg and Wyming Brook? Some good buttresses buried in those woods that could do with a bit of traffic to remove some of the green (not just Burglar Buttress either).

Disappointed that the mischievous element of UKC hasn't raised Stannington Ruffs yet   

What????? When did I miss that?

That's just rumours. The BMC guidebook committee has a lot of sorting out to do even if they decide on that outcome (what happens to all the data, communications, e-scripts, inputs to Wired etc). Niall has moved jobs in the BMC as, given the end of the current guidebook series, a full-time guidebook officer was regarded as unaffordable under the tight financial constraints brought on by covid. At least his skills are retained if things change (a for instance important to many climbers is Niall helped a lot of guidebook producers outside the BMC).

Thanks

If you're going to re make Eastern grit, how about including a prominent section at the start about how to look after the rock and the outdoor environment properly. I am thinking in particular in the light of recent incidents where inexperienced climbers (or maybe experienced ones??) have been climbing on wet grit, not cleaning shoes properly, bringing BBQs to the crag etc.

Obviously I know that incidents have not been restricted to the eastern peak but given the huge reach of the rockfax Eastern Grit book maybe putting more extensive and prominent information on how to treat the rock and the environment would be a good thing?

They have a good outline on two pages already. With the exception of inclusion of some general points on bird bans, the additions I'd like to see are more on crag pages... some examples: crags where bird bans are common, don't park on verges where it is becoming a serious problem, not using damaged cam placements and not belaying on the monument at Birchen, no tree pruning or group instructional use at Rivelin, no dogs at Bamford.

I personally would like to see a definitive guidebook covering all routes. I also think more trivia, and more last great problems, to motivate and inspire.

Is there a Western Grit update in the works?

The BMC  Over the Moors is far from definitive  in book form (it's backed up by web guides) and has almost as many routes as the current  Western Grit. Would you really want 4 or more Rockfax guidebooks where we now have two? (currently 7 definitives cover the same area but they also include most of the best bouldering).

In the works, yes, imminent no. Eastern Grit next year and Costa Blanca in 2022 - I can’t look any further ahead than that,

Chris

So not really "just rumours" then.

Alan

I'm not blaming you Alan. It's been said in various places about the BMC that it IS stopping ALL guidebook work. That's a politically tinged rumour from some with in my view clear negative agendas. It's a fact that Niall has a new BMC role but his skills remain if needed. The volunteer base remains (many of whom provide input to multiple guidebook producers). BMC communications on the matter could be better but they have plenty of more urgent distractions at present.