UKC

My brother is visiting from Singapore and I thought it would be nice to take him on a little adventure. Heading up to the Lakes one night, perhaps, camping somewhere, and then enjoying a nice mountain day.

Criteria thus:

Preferably south facing to stay out of the wind and in the sun. Hypothermia not desired. For that reason also, it would be sensible to stay relatively low in altitude, but if it's south facing I don't mind going a little higher.

An easy route - VD max, I'd say, as he'll probably be wearing my walking boots or trainers. He's an athletic type and has climbed indoors in ages past, but no climbing of any sort for a very long time. A scramble would do provided it's a good one and that I can protect him with a rope.

A good route - not some ledge shuffling grass horror. Preferably 4 - 8 pitches.

The weather looks decent this week, but it would help if the route was open and reasonably fast drying.

NOT Middlefell Buttress which is spoilt by the vastness of it's middle belay ledge. It's also not really long enough.

I thought of Corvus but I think it will be quite miserable in a northerly wind.

Bracket and Slab Climb (VS 4b) might suit.  Skip the last pitch and it fits the grade.  Afterwards wander round the Langdale Pikes and have a pint in the ODG.

T.

How about Sadgill Wall on Buckbarrow? Low down and gets the sun I think. It's severe so may be more than you want to take on but a great day out in an accessible location .

Cliff?

You might also consider 'C' Ordinary Route (Summer) (VD).  It isn't south-facing and it will be chilly,  but it's easy enough, can be done carrying rucksacks, if you walk off over Coniston Old Man it gives you a proper hill day out and the walk down past the copper mines adds a touch of history too.

T.

If you can up the standard a bit, stoats crack on pavey might be a drier,warmer bet.

Its the south facing bit that's awkward at v diff.

Edit if not windy, needle ridge on gable, carrying sacks back over the summit.

Ash Tree Slabs (VD) perhaps, followed by 'A' Route (S 4a)

Or some sort of link up on  Grey Crag (Buttermere)

What the all time classic Little Chamonix ?

Agreed, given top weather Needle or Arrowhead Ridge would give a great day.

Buckbarrow and Arrowhead Ridge both good suggestions. What about Cook's Tour on Pavey? Should get lots of sun, lots of shelter from the wind, and can be followed up by nipping to High Raise or down Langdale Comb.

Maybe a wild card as its high up. Grooved Arete (HVD)
Its west facing so if its a sunny day, by the time the sun comes on to it the air temp will have got as warm as its getting. A stunning position looking right down Wast Water, and you can summit the highest mountain in England. Just a thought

I took a friend up Gillercombe Buttress whose only previous route had been The Devil's Slide. But I do think Grey Crag would be the best option, since your friend is athletic and could cope with the walk in.

Hi Will

You'd need a calm sunny day at this time of year not to invite hypothermia on any of the high mountain crags, so fingers crossed for the weather!

Gimmer might be OK in good conditions. I'd recommend Main Wall Climb, which is a more or less straight up 3 pitch VDiff with continuous climbing and no nasty surprises.  Not sure if I'd recommend Ash Tree Slabs (particularly for a non-climber in walking boots) as the first pitch is quite tricky and delicate for a VDiff (arguably more like a Severe), and it will also be in the shade for much of the day at this time of the year – we froze there in June! If it’s not windy Lyon's Crawl and Oliverson's Variation (VDiff) on the more open west face is really good; some spectacular positions and mostly pretty straightforward at the grade.  If VDiff really is the limit, then I’d say that Bracket and Slab (Severe) is out.  The first pitch feels quite tough for the grade and the Bracket is an absolute bitch!

Not sure I’d recommend Dow at this time of year unless it’s really mild, as it has a reputation for having a Baltic microclimate, and is in the shade all afternoon.  If you did go there and can move quickly enough to stave off the hypothermia, Giant’s Crawl is a better and more characterful climb than C Ordinary Route, and also gets you right to the top (which C Ordinary doesn't) but does have a bit of potential for a second to pendulum if they came off.

Grey Crag at Buttermere has some good climbs on nice rock, which is also quick drying.

The Napes although slippery if wet is quick drying.  Needle Ridge would be a good route to do, as it’s mostly very easy for a VDiff (apart from a short polished slabby wall at the start) and is in a great position looking down at Napes Needle.

Gillercombe Buttress is also very quick drying, but although graded Mild Severe has one pitch at 4b, which would probably be a struggle for a non-climber in walking boots.

Grooved Arete on Pike’s Crag is an excellent long route, and catches the sun for most of the day (at least in the summer) but has a couple of pitches which are really pretty stiff for the grade.

Corvus would be ideal but for its shaded aspect.  Like you suggest, I reckon it would be pretty cold at this time of year.

Otherwise, how about Wallowbarrow Crag ?  Not a mountain crag, but multipitch routes with a sunny aspect.  I’d recommend Trinity Slabs and possibly Thomas, which is a steady Severe.

Hope this helps and you have a good time!

Cooks tour?

Cook's Tour (VD).

Better climbing 

Cresent climb followed by Gwynnes chimney, might want dry 24hrs before entering the chimney. A mountain day.

Main wall climb on gimmer is class but fairly short lived

Directly up front of Harrison stickle gives 60m top quality grade 3 scrambling

Is the long not particularly well protected traverse, IIRC, on Crescent Climb, the best place to take a non climber. 

This was my first ever Multi Pitch, we did Gwynnes in Torrential rain.

another vote for Dow & C ord

Big mountain with an easy walk in and a long juggy climb

I've edited my response

The traverse is airy and not for a faint hearted second however gear is ok, some decent slings iirc, moves are fairly straightforward, great handholds, it's mod, it might be damp

Yes. The snag with Grooved Arete on Pike's Crag is that it's very uneven. The hardest pitch is too hard technically for relative beginners. Yes, Pike's Crag is in a good aesthetic position, but (honestly) it's disappointingly scruffy, and nothing like as good as, say,  the E Face of Tryfan. 

Personally I'd head for Wallowbarrow in the Duddon. Low lying, south facing and there's a few multipitch routes at that sort of grade.

Good post, Cath. We'll probably end up going on Friday, and the weather is looking distinctly chilly, so being out of the wind is a must. The wind looks like a north westerly, so Gillercombe might be ideal with it's south easterly aspect. And if we get up there and it's baltic then maybe we can do the enchainment onto Rabbit's Trod instead to keep us moving more.

Good point about the shade. But I recommended it because I first did it many years ago with a non climber and wearing big boots!

I decided against mentioning that one as it's very traversey, which might (or might not) be a problem for a novice.

I agree with Cumbrian climber: Wallowbarrow crag is where I will be heading as it is in the Duddon valley therefore not at altitude but the location and scenery are great, as well as the rock. Trinity slab for example,  is a pleasant 4 pitch climb graded at Vdiff, certainly not long but worth it. the high Crags will be somehow demanding this time of the year and you might end up not enjoying it that much, unless you are well prepared.

Wallowbarrow isn't all that easy to combine with a 'mountain day' experience - that the OP indicated as desirable. Nor are the Borrowdale crags.

Possibly, given the circumstances etc, a circuit from NDG taking in a D/VD on Tarn Crag and a saunter up to Stickle Tarn, Jack's Rake (or maybe Cook's Tour as suggested) might give the variety required.

Nights drawing in though, so that'll be a factor...

Enjoy

Langdale is quite an attractive proposition because camping at Bays Brown is relatively fairly priced, plus the NDG opens for breakfast at 8am, so there's not so much logistical hassle for me beforehand (sorting out stove and gas etc).

Currently thinking that Pavey would be a good bet since it faces away from Friday's forecast north westerly and we can start on Crescent Route before finishing up the Rake or nipping up Gwynne's Chimney (the logbook comments have put me right off Cook's Tour).

I've not been to Wallowbarrow but my reservation about that is that it might not really give the feel of a mountain day?

Looking at the latest Met Office mountain forecast for Friday (strong northwesterly winds, snow falling above 500m), it could prove a rather bracing day for your brother if he is fresh off the plane from Singapore.

When you say 'the feel of a mountain day', do you mean the feel that you are climbing the North Face of the Eiger? 

Or perhaps it's just me being softcore!

personally I think you are mildly insane to contemplate a mountain crag given the forecast, however it is looking like it will be sunny on Saturday so not an utter impossibly - just pack gloves, balaclava and an ice axe.

I would be more inclined to Borrowdale - Little Cham and Brown slab routes on Shepherds or push it a bit on Troutdale pinnacle at Black Crag. 

Stay in Yorkshire and run laps on The Night Watch (VS 4b)

If the weathers not mild/dry enough to go high, I'd suggest a Scout crag/White Ghyll link-up. Up one of the VD classics on Upper Scout Crag (sheltered and S facing), walk across and up to White Ghyll from the top of it (15 mins), and continue up Slabs route 1 - Severe but pretty novice friendly if he's ok with small belay ledges. From the top of this either descend the Stickle Tarn path for tea and medals, or head up to scramble/climb on Pavey (Rake End Chimney Diff is a classy thrutch). Also not far from Tarn Crag to add in another D/VD or gr 2-3 scramble on the way down.

I climbed on White Ghyll a month ago on a day that was cool and windy, but not nearly as cold and windy as forecast for this Friday and it was bloody freezing even with down layers etc !  Cold enough for the other party we met to bail off early and for my climbing partner to have to wear winter gloves on the belays. This was despite it being a sunny day.

The crag is in the shade for half of the day and the northwesterly wind seemed to funnel up the gorge, so it felt pretty exposed.

Given the forecast, if I was absolutely dead set on climbing in the Lakes on Friday, I'd be heading for Wallowbarrow or Shepherd's.

Personally I'd be going for a hillwalk or easy scramble instead.

Wallowbarrow is indeed a bit feeble. Won't feel like a real mountain day. Shepherds better. Pavey (Crescent, Jack's Rake etc) could be fine if it's sunny. 

Echoing other people, but:

Looks cold this weekend, if that's when you're going!

Wallowbarrow is delightful. Perfect aspect. There are two 4-pitch VDiffs you could nip up, followed by the excellent Thomas (S) if all's going well (you can lead this in two pitches if you're confident).

Langdale's not a bad shout, however, because there are so many options. In the valley, all in a row, you've got: White Crag, MFB, Raven, Raven East, Raven Far East, Sticklebarn Crag (two great chimneys) and Scout Crags. 

If you're really determined for a mountain day, you could do Main Wall (Gimmer) and then head to  Harrison Stickle for another VDiff (e.g. Harristickorner/Spillikin Ridge (VD) or scrambling, followed by a descent of Jack's Rake. If it's going well, you might even part-way descend the Rake and head up Gwynne's Chimney, whilst if the weather gets nasty you can escape after each leg.

When I tried to do something similar two or three weekends ago, we gave up after a Middlefell Buttress approach, because the near-gale SW wind was bitingly cold. But, we got in a route on East Raven and another on Upper Scout before rain called off play.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the Gillercombe buttress is vastly overrated.

I think the already mentioned Grooved Arete would be a good option. It has a South-Westerly aspect and, although I haven't climbed it, the routes on pulpit rock looks mighty appealing when viewed from routes on Scafell Crag. You also get to top out on Scafell Pike.

No it's not

I appreciate all the suggestions. I think John's idea of enchaining Scout into White Ghyll into Tarn Crag into Pavey is probably what we'll approximate. I fully expect to not do a route in White Ghyll as I think that without sun (we'd be there in the late morning I think) and with the wind on it, it would be horrible. So we'll probably just walk up the gill and then contour round to Tarn Crag. If we get up to Pavey and it's miserable we can at least go up the Rake and then walk along the tops to finish off.

Mountain crags can be doable in winter if you have a complete disregard for conditions. In those heady days of youth I remember going to Dow in December. Arrived at the parking in the dark, verglas on Giant's Crawl, hot aches, snow on the ledges, dad's old waterproof wrapped uselessly around me, feet like lumps of ice in rock shoes, getting back to the car park in the dark. It didn't feel like suffering at the time, it was just exciting, and very memorable over 10 years later. I wouldn't go cragging up there on a day like that now though!

With regards Wallowbarrow, and anything with a remotely westerly aspect, I think people are seriously underestimating the effect of the wind on how cold it feels. Yes it's low, and it will get the sun later in the day, but it will also catch its share of the north westerly, which I think is what's going to make it feel really cold. We're heading up tonight and will be out tomorrow, so I'll report back with how many fingers and toes we lose to frostbite in due course.

My reluctance to go somewhere like Wallowbarrow is that the day then becomes a cragging day, and my brother has never been outdoor climbing in his life. His last time at an indoor wall was when he was about 13 I think, some 20 years ago. So he isn't a climber and the idea of doing a route and coming back down and doing another is probably baffling. However, a "mountain day" with some scrambling or climbing thrown in is something that almost anybody who's enjoyed a bit of walking can grasp.

Is it a scramble from the top of 'C' Ordinary Route (Summer) (VD) to the top to continue onto Old Man of Coniston? I know Giant's Crawl goes more or less the full way up the crag but I believe C Ordinary Route doesn't make it the full height?

You'd put your walking boots back on, yes.

T.  

You can have a good mountain day in the Duddon. If you get the Scramble book out there are a couple of good scrambles (this is one of them Tarn Beck (Grade-2)) at a lower level going up the valley beyond the Walna Scar road and the Farm. If you than follow a ridge line up and then the left of Seathwaite tarn there is a good scramble (150m) were I would recommend you rope your brother on Great Blake Rigg (Grade-3) then you can top out on Grey Friar. I have done this with my daughter, some good scrambling but also some good walking where you can have a chat. The beauty of the Duddon is that it is beautiful, quiet and seems to have a Micro Climate which is often better than the rest of the Lakes

Hope you both have a good weekend Will.  Look forward to the trip report!

Not to be deterred by MWIS' prediction of -12 in the wind, we started with a fry up at the NDG. Headed to Upper Scout and did Route 1, which was really immaculate on the top pitch. Then headed up and over the top of White Ghyll crag (heinous in the wind, glad we weren't on the crag) and cut across to get to Tarn Crag where we did another Route 1. Brother was disappointed to not be doing a harder route than what we did on Scout, so he was obviously quite happy climbing in approach shoes.

Headed up to Pavey where we had our sarnies next to Stickle Tarn before heading up Jack's Rake. I pointed out Gwynne's Chimney as we passed it and he demanded that we do it. Thus ensued the horror. Polished, narrow, absolutely streaming with water. We passed a torque nut and quickdraw low down where someone more sensible had bailed. I continued, walking boots groping on soaking wet smears, water running down the sleeves. Eventually, mercifully, it was over. Brother came up with only one fall which I thought was quite impressive. We topped out and nipped down for a quick pint in the Sticklebarn before driving home for tea.

Tropical when in the sun and out of the wind. Mild out of the wind and sun. Baltic in the wind.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Rake End Chimney looked evil - you sandbagger, John!

Nice one!

Good to hear that your brother got the last laugh making you do Gwynne's Chimney !

Well done! Gwynne's Chimney is evil even in rock shoes in good conditions, if you ask me.

Nice day out Will! Sounds like you made the best of rather baltic conditions. I've always found Gwynnes' considerably harder, slipperier and more flared than Rake End chimney. It lures you in by looking short and slabby.. Rake End is much easier with your rucksac dangling beneath/hauled after for future reference. I can give you a hit-list of classic thrutches if your brother gets 'the taste'

I can recommend the book "Scrambles and Easy Climbs in the Lake District" by Jon Sparks and Judith Brown, published by Greystone Books.  As the title suggests, it covers both scrambles and "proper" climbs up to about V Diff and usefully bridges the gap between scrambling and climbing guidebooks.