UKC

I think I'm about ready to start breaking into the grade. Can people suggest for me good first HVS leads (soft touch/well protected), preferably around North Wales or Avon/Somerset/Wye region?

Thanks in advance!

Guytha or Great North Wall Route at Wintours.

No Musketeers or Fallacy at Shorncliffe

Klute at Wyndcliffe

suspension Bridge Arete and Suspense at Avon

....all quite low in the grade and enough to get you started.????

I jumped from being a solid VS leader to E1 lead missing out HVS all together.  The route was Looning the Tube in Dinorwic (okay so some guides do list it as high end HVS).  So I'd recommend that.  Yes it's a little run out but the gear and bolts it does have are bomber and what a great route it is on a fantastic slab/crack that's perfectly angled.

Have lead another E1 at Stanage and seconded a few more since but still only have one lead HVS tick to date.  For some reason I seem to find HVS a strange grade and often harder than E1 stuff.  Confusing!

Merlin direct. A steep classic but good gear where you want it. 

Or search out the tough 5a VS routes and approach the grade leap from the other direction.  

A soft touch hvs ie. 4c, would imply less protection. It will be tough to tick both boxes. 

Agreed - Merlin Direct was my first HVS back in the day! Great route.

So you've only onsighted one E1 on lead, but recommend skipping HVS? Interesting.

For the Peak based climber, you'd have a lot more fun to enjoy at HVS than E1. Not too many decent E1s knocking around, certainly compared to HVS.

Looning the Tube is HVS by almost all measures except the guidebook. Great route, and nice climbing, but not E1 at all. Great option for the OP, as around the trickier (5a) sections there are bolts, and the less protected sections are really very easy.

Looning the tube is a pants route compared to the other delights to be had in the slate   

In terms of soft touch HVS routes in NW I'd recommend Meshach (HVS 5a) at  Craig Bwlch y Moch (Tremadog) or Scratch Arete (HVS 5a) on  Craig Pant Ifan (Tremadog). 

Both have a tricky 5a move but are very well protected and by no means sustained. 

Well of course - but a lot of the good ones aren't HVS!

The Hyll Drem Girdle (HVS 5a) also fits these criteria, and stays dry in the drizzle

I'd go for Scratch Arete. One well-protected 5a move, terrific position.

T.

Lot's Groove (HVS 5b)

Both formerly VS 5a iirc (as is Merlin Direct)

Portishead Quarry is a good place for a first HVS.

Brink of Solarity is the softest HVS in the SW.  Pickpocket is a middle of the road HVS slab climb but not too hard.  The Baldest is a potential leg snapper, and the only one of the three that I don't fancy repeating.

The Portishead quarry ones mentioned above are nice, although on slabs its easy to have a false sense of confidence way above gear.

Only done a few in Avon, agree the 2 on Suspension bridge buttress are OK, (suspense + arete) although gear is a bit minimal to start, climbing is not too bad.

The Lich on main wall felt fairly tame, whereas The Corpse quite bold, and Puke (Seawalls) also, so don't get on those for a while! Well worth reading log book comments on any Avon gorge routes, so the guide books don't put you out of your comfort zone! There are some quite scary run outs in Avon, so you want to be fairly confident at the grade there it would seem.

Tricams are useful in Avon, as well as cam cams.

I would reccomend Suspense / Suspension bridge arete at Avon  - mid grade and well protected. A lot of the other HVS's in the gorge are not at all friendly.

The Lich is the best protected hvs on main wall, but not easy for the grade;

Reveille is bottom end HVS but rather bold on the top easy slab;

The first pitch of Ffoegs folly is given HVS and has bomber gear the whole way up - probably VS though;

Jose Dansck has bomber threads and easy climbing but the top is a little bold

The portishead quarry routes are very soft imho: Brink of solidarity is VS, Pickpocket soft HVS, the Baldest mid HVS and Approaching maturity E1. The gear is adequate and you can get lots of hands off rests

Red Rose Speedway at Symonds Yat- one of the best HVS's you'll do anywhere. It's strenuous so not soft touch, but it is well protected so it meets one of your two criteria. Certainly one to aim for!

Portishead slab -work up through the 3 of them

The early worm at FCQ is clearly graded wrongly but Come the Seth is good. I like Reveille in Avon Gorge, but also Malbogies. 

Try Brant Direct (HVS 5a) on Grochan *cough sandbag cough cough*

On a serious note though Meshach (HVS 5a) is a good HVS, as previously said, its not sustained and the crux move is protected by a high old peg so you're almost top roping it.

I don't know if The Gower is in your ambit but there are some excellent steady well protected HVSs. Isis (HVS 5a), South West Diedre (HVS 5a) Assassin (HVS 5a)  all come to mind.

I'd suggest Fan Fare (HVS 4c) - that was my first HVS, and still the softest in the grade I've encountered anywhere near you.

I was going to suggest Butterfly (VS 4c) as being a soft touch for HVS, but it seems too many other people agreed and it's been downgraded.  You can always say you were using an old guidebook.

Mind you, old guidebooks aren't always so helpful.  One cold January afternoon not long after breaking into HVS leads, and because my guidebook said it was HVS 4c, I led Central Buttress (E1 5a) .  I don't recommend you see that one as an old guidebook soft touch . . .

T.

Shorncliffe is a good bet for a first HVS or E1. Quite a few friendly routes, just don't be tempted by Tigers Don't Cry (HVS 5b)

Wyndcliffe is nice at this time of year, but I don't think there are any soft touches there. Do some of the VS routes before you attempt any at HVS.

I don't understand the popularity of that route.  I mean it's a pretty good line apart from the polish but for some reason people go to the crag just to climb it.

I have been climbing there on more than one occasion when people have turned up after the 40 minute walk in, asked where "tigers don't cry" is, climbed it and left.

They just invested over an hour of walking for one pitch.  There are other good climbs there as well!

I'd agree with the Tremadog suggestion - Scratch Arete and Merlin Direct.

A bit harder but, if you're ok on slabs, and very satisfying is Lorraine Variation (or Direct I think) on Dinas Mot.  A varied and superb 40m pitch.  

Lorraine Variation (HVS 5a)

I thought it lived up to the hype, aesthic line, well protected and pleasantly surprised that it didn’t really live up to its reputation. One of the better lines in the Wye! I would recommend it. 

That is odd behaviour. I still haven't climbed Tigers, despite having a few Shorncliffe E1s under my belt. The reputation has got to me and I bottle it every time I'm there. 

I stand by my statement that it's about the only route at Shorncliffe that would be a really bad choice for a first HVS.

I agree that it is good, but I don't understand why people would turn up just for that route and then go home again given the length of the walk in and the general quality of the crag.  Sure go there and do it, but stick around for a few more afterwards!

Avon's Central Buttress (E1 5a) in 1969 was a terrifying VS. Really scary.

Is this really now considered tough for HVS? It used to be benchmark Introductory HVS, i.e. perfect gear and moves that really aren't hard for the grade at all, but a tad steep and sustained compared to VSs thereabouts.

I found it pretty memorable in January 1989. A 70 foot first pitch with your last runner a peg of uncertain vintage around 30 feet up and the hardest moves near the top does rather focus the mind.

T.

Dont ignore Pembroke...... If you feel like a little further than Wye valley

Agreed. I vaguely remember that once upon a time it was reckoned to be easy mild Extreme, then in the 1970s Ron James selective guide it was VS+. With modern gear, it's certainly not easy E1 - if it ever was - and I'd say it's a good, solid first HVS lead (might have been mine), depending on the kind of climbing a person likes.

Brant Direct was the first route I led that was HVS in the guide book of the time (several VSs have now been regraded to HVS). It was on the first OUMC weekend meet that I went on so must have been October/November 1976, and at the time it seemed a popular first HVS. Didn't seem any harder technically than many VSs although as I'd spent  a couple of months in the Alps that summer I was probably stronger than any time before or since. I think a photo of it was  used in an ad (for Viking ropes?) in the mid 70s

Well yeah, thinking about it the HVS's round the other side of Grochan are much tougher. Karwendel wall, wind.

I found Brant Direct a lot of fun when i climbed it but there are definitely some easier HVS routes out there for sure. You're right though you can chuck as much gear in as you can carry.

Totally agree - but, to many people, climbing has become a game of commodities. Tick grades and tick stars.

Mick

Even scarier in a torrential downpour (circa 1979).

Mick

John, I led it in 1974 and thought it was lovely. Seconded it earlier this year and thought it was a slimy, polished pig. Some things don't get better with age!

Mick

A little searching & I found the ad with the slogan 'High on Brant Direct'

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=x-raw-image%3A%2F%2F%2F6e42d3c02e9b2e9...

I was going to suggest it myself (Brant Direct) as anyone with decent stamina should be able to do it and safe as houses.

Fair point Mick. I think the first time I did it will have been around 1979 and the last time will have been around 1982. Polish didn't really exist in the Pass at the time.

I last did it in the late 90s on a really hot day.  I do recall it being pretty sweaty and slippery.

Brant Direct (HVS 5a)  is a soft touch if you are good at udging and resting in udges - well protected and easy to place gear and not at all sustained and very secure feeling. That way if felt like 1-2 moves between udges, I would imagine it would feel nails if you tried to bridge it

Suspense was my first HVS lead. Nice unpolished rock and good gear spaced something like outdoor bolts (ie you do have to climb above them but never too far) IIRC.

Whats udging? I bridged and jammed it.

these also

Vala (HVS 5a) Just pitch 1 gets HVS IIRC then ab off. Very nice and good gear.

Wind Wall (HVS 5a) This is superb and much easier than it looks, don't be scared to bridge left around the crux. The gear is superb and at the exact spacing to make the pitch perfect.

I love jamming but only found two jams were needed. 

Udging is a style of chimney and offwidth climbing. Basically i climbed much of it IIRC with my right shoulder against the part of the right wall of the v groove that is nearest to the central crack. Didn't bridge much at all for most the crack (possibly on one or two of the short cruxes between udges). Done it twice this way now.

If you are looking to be climbing an HVS at this time of year, I wouldn't be setting my heart on stuff in the pass and Shorncliffe, whilst a great crag, is likely to be a bit greasy.  Your best bet IMO are the two Tremadog suggestions of Scratch Arete or Merlin Direct, both of which are great routes.

I remember thinking Brant Direct had the feel and difficulty of something like Great North Road on grit and was pretty much middle grade HVS.

These are really awesome too and softish (for me anyway) but maybe not for first HVS leads because of the ab in complications associated with failure and lack of phone coverage.

Finale Groove (HVS 4c)

Aventura (HVS 4c)

Jo (HVS 5a)

I found GNR harder which I agree is middle ish. I'm probably exaggerating a bit Between soft and middle of the grade for Brant Direct. BD doesn't have a section as hard as the section over first roof on GNR the way I climbed them both. Neither are sustained if you use the rests right 

Interesting. Its a technique ill have to try and employ next time im in a chimney/groove.

I also climbed Sickle from the big offwidth on the right hand side of the flake. I was probably doing a bit of udging there but i just felt like i was humping the rock into submission.

Please don't anybody attempt first (or early) HVS leads in the Ruckle!  I'm sure some have got away with it but offhand I can't think of a more sure recipe for disaster - especially at this time of year.

Mick

Now then, you see I thought most of Great North Road was middle of the road HVS.. but the laybacking on the 'second pitch' felt a) tough and b) ballsy for the grade. I might have just been feeling the pressure though, as I'd hated to have messed up one of the big grit ticks. 

I think to an experienced HVS+ Leader they might seem soft, but I reckon to most breaking into that grade they’d seem hard and intimidating.

Add to that if they can’t do it they’re left with the prospect of climbing a VS or prussicing up a route, possibly when spent.

I second Shorncliffe

"maybe not for first HVS leads because of the ab in complications associated with failure and lack of phone coverage."

Personally I think all 3 routes do look intimidating from the ground, but the actual climbing is easier than it looks and they are in the main very well protected (barring perhaps the start of a couple of them).

Although as I mentioned in my initial post maybe these routes aren't the best choice for first HVS, they are something to aspire to. With a confident approach, they are a lot softer than one might think looking up from the ground. You might be surprised to read the amount of user comments for Finale Groove of successful ascents of first HVS lead and second!

Me too, and the Portishead routes recommended already (my daughter seconded her first HVS there when she was 5!)

Avon is a bit of acquired taste.  I did Malbogies as quite an early HVS but others have found it tricky.  Suspension Bridge Arete is pretty steady as well as being a crowd pleaser.

A bit further afield, but still in the SW, Baggy has loads of top-end VS/soft HVS to go at and is a good place to push your grade as long as you are sensible about the descents and tides. 

There is now one move on Malbogies which is as polished as a Donald Trump tweet, and makes the route hideously unbalanced. I agree with everyone who has recommended Suspension Bridge Arete.

Suspense and Suspension bridge arete are both good suggestions and not like other avon routes. The rock is unquarried and there is good gear in the main with no polish.

Hell Gates is also superb if a bit harder

Here are 3 well-protected classics that may "suit you sir" (ooh!)!

Laughing Cavaliers - great route, very enjoyable. Didn't feel like 5b.

Bitter Battle Tears - harder, felt more 5b than 5a, but also well protected.

Another vote for Brant Direct.

A bit harder than Brant Direct is Spectre. Also very well protected; both 5a pitches have great moves. I will always remember bridging across the corner on P2, hanging off a bomber fist jam and putting in an amazingly good sideways hex 8. The fierce layback on P4 is great too!

I probably didn't climb it the best protected way but my notes for spectre say:

"Found pitch 3 harder this time, I think you could hit the ledge laybacking the edge of the offwidth if you fluffed it, which I nearly did!"

It's an ace climb though!

IIRC, I managed to put in adequate gear, but very strenuously! I had a grade in hand at the time - I would probably chicken out of leading it if I was on it now!

Absolutely!

Nice find. In kletterschuhe (?sp) too.

In reply to my earlier post about Brant Direct's grade: I can't find my Ron James guide, but Steve Ashton's topo guide says it used to be mild extreme; he gives it VS+. (Maybe it was that guide I was thinking of.)

Brant Direct

I haven't failed on many HVS's but this is one of them. Must have missed something as everybody else says it's so easy!

Got thirty feet up, footholds ran out,crack to thin to jam and lowered off down through the air....would be interesting to go back again.

That is correct, I definitely remember that

I think that layback is bloody hard for 5a.  I've done it twice, 20 years apart, and struggled both times despite having a good few grades in hand the second time.

That's very close to my experiences. I found the Spectre crux [pitch 3] to be hard, and struggled, both times I led it - I'd call it either top end 5a or low end 5b. Great route by the way

I don't think anyone is saying easy - just solid mid grade.

Not HVS, but quite tricky VS I thought - how about Noah's Warning at Dinas Cromlech?

Or if Pembroke as suggested, I remember Army Dreamers at St Govan's Head being fairly straight forward. 

Scratch Arete is brilliant, a couple of small cams to back up the peg may provide a confidence boost if needed. Meshach is also awesome, and both are slabs so offer plenty of thinking time. 

Ron James gives Brant Direct as HVS- (2nd edition). Mind you he also gives Spectre and Ivy Sepulchre HVS-.

If you know Beacon Hill in Leicestershire, then Brant Direct will feel very similar, very fine grained rock that feels polished even on the non polished bits.

Ah, thank you. Ivy Sepulchre HVS- with one point of aid, perhaps (as my old Three Cliffs guidebook has it)?

But Ivy Sep hasn't been done for years with aid - it's an incomparably better route at E1 5b.

RJ says one peg for protection but mentions that it's sometimes used for aid, so his HVS- is for a free ascent.

I think it was my second HVS lead, I was quite surprised when it was upgraded to E1.

Don't forget that RJ's grades were a bit on the tough side

I led the The Gates & The Corner on my birthday in 97 then went on to do Spectre and found the  crack pitch desperate for a route 1 grade lower.

Go to the Fall Bay area of Gower and in particular the area described on UKC as 'Lewes Castle'.  
All of the routes are steady for the grade and with no bad run outs, etc.  
Word of caution though, don't be tempted to elevate yourself to an E1 climber by attempting 'Seth'...

Fall Bay to Mewslade

Yeah isis is a good route and not too hard for hvs especially if you can jam.

Brant direct is a good shout, steep but bomber gear.

If you can deal with the atmosphere and the ab-in then Britomartis at Gogarth is pretty straightforward. 

Funny, thinking about it, most HVSs in NWales seem like HVSs for those who lead E1!

All this talk of Scratch Arete remind's me that after doing that the walk across to Stromboli HVS was very pleasant. Last pitch has 3 overhangs in  great positions and the best move is the last one just where it should be. Then another walk down and across to finish up Helsinki Wall at E1 ? is no harder than the first 2.    Nice morning out then a cuppa at Ericks (as was) before the afternoon.

If your talking Britomartis then you have to put in Wen, Concreat Chimney, and best of all Dream.             I have always thought Dream low in the grade but the number of dangerous epic's on it shows some have no clue when it comes to long traversing on easy rock .   Posted epic on Dream this summer. 

Yes Wen would be good too. Dream not so good for a first HVS though, but yes, it is pretty easy climbing. Concrete Chimney's too hard for a first lead.

All good suggestions, although I think I'd go Sinew (HVS 5a) at Wyndcliff as being easier than Klute. 

How about The Brink of Solarity (HVS 5a) if you like slab?

Bottom bit of Stromboli is rubbish but it's an easy abseil into the belay for the brill top pitch.

Helsinki Wall was HVS when I did it (Ron James grades again), can't see why it would get E1 unless something's changed.

Having said that, take the E1 tick if it's being offered

I agree. I was not recommending the route to the OP, merely following up the grade comparison posted by Michael Hood, so apologies if I was unclear. (And btw, just in case you were wondering, I dislike and have never used thumbs up/down buttons on UKC.)

My mistake, Helsinki Wall given VS+ in RJ. Stromboli HVS- and rather surprisingly Scratch Arete HVS- with a piton for aid.

The interesting thing about the HVS- grade as used by Ron James was that, in terms of the currently accepted grades, it ranged from soft HVS (as you would expect) to E2!  I remember in particular just getting away with Rowan Tree Slabs Direct, "HVS-". 

How many occasions is "more than one"? 

Why a really bad choice? I would reserve that sort of comment for something dangerously bold. Tigers... is well-protected all the way, which is the main thing you want when pushing into a new grade on trad. Really good, sustained, technical climbing; clean boots and precise footwork tames the polish. Have you actually tried it?

I've led 50+ HVS pitches and Finale Groove is up there on my list of best leads.  I wouldn't say it's high in the grade, but it's long and sustained and the crux is definitely 5a.

Emotional Dyslexia (HVS 5a)

Emotional Dyslexia was, I think, my first HVS lead.  In my view, it's simply one of these climbs that is a little harder than VS ought to be, so HVS is fair, although it's low in the grade.

As others have said "Laughing Cavaliers" and "No Musketeers" are also in this category. 

Shorn Cliff is the place to go!

I think I just get along with Swanage, the ab down leaves me feeling committed with a purpose and it tends to be steep well protected proper climbing which I also like.

I agree the crux of finale groove is 5a not 4c (through the overhanging section), you can do it a couple of different ways at the grade (you can layback it or just pop up for a good hold on top of the block). The start of Aventura is also 5a if you ask me.

I think Aventura, Jo and Finale Groove are all low in the HVS grade but perhaps I'm one of the few people to think this. Perhaps I'm just considering the climbing and gear without the other factors included in the grading like objective danger or maybe I find more rests than most people?