UKC

I spotted on Facebook that the Cave Rescue Organisation had rescued two people from Gaping Gill who had been attempting GG Rider. It sounds like they were uninjured but just became stuck.

I've always been really interested in this route. It must have barely been repeated, if at all. I thought you had to wait till the winch meet when the river might be diverted?

So, I just thought I'd post in case the climbers are reading this. Firstly, I hope you're both ok. Secondly, what was it like?! And are there any other people here who have done/attempted the route who can share their experiences?

I've only done it in reverse

Looks desperate!

You might find this interesting if you haven't seen it already.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/ge...

Wow, I'm in awe of anyone who attempts Gee Gee Rider, they must have very VERY large nuts. The word "damp" would somewhat understate the problem. Shame it didn't "go" but respect they tried it. Of course, huge respect also to the rescue volunteers!

I used to know one of the first ascensionists (the free version in '86-ish?). I think they did it when one of the winch meets was on as then the stream was dammed and so much of the water didn't fall on them. I saw some pictures which looked like they were taken from the winch. If I recall correctly, Dave said the upper part of the shaft above Birkbeck's Ledge was trickiest as more daylight caused algae on some holds making them a little slippery.

I looked at the cncc booking system and it'd be possible (weather/water levels depending) to get a booking for GG main hang. plus I noticed on fleabay someone had bought a 200m petzl club and chopped in half (as they wanted 100m) and was selling it new/unused.  I'm sorely tempted to head up and take a look see 

I haven't got my Northern Caves to hand but I'm not sure a 100m rope will get you down? I think the least faff is the Jib Tunnel entrance (just up from the open hole itself) from which it's a big drop to the floor of Main Chamber. Without the dam in place you do get the water coming in not far below. The other way I've been in (apart from the winch) is going from the moor and abbing pretty much down the winch route. That does hit Birkbeck's Ledge re-belay. Apart from appropriate clothing (it's cold and damp down there) you do need a good lighting rig as it's a bit dim at the foot. All in all it's a massively serious place.

If you're not an active caver t perhaps think about a trip on the next winch meet? August BH week if it's running. At least you'll then see what's involved - it's incredibly impressive and awe inspiring to say the least.

thats about right from what Paul said (I was at uni with him, where we tried some pretty daft things in caves, including trying to free climb Diccan Pot). There was something at the time in the NPC mag, but from memory they (Paul and Dave) were reluctant to publicise it much because it wasnt really the sort of thing you wanted people to risk doing. We did manage to free Bar Pot, but cant remember if Paul was on that trip......

There won't be a winch meet this August, but the Craven will have a presence at GG.  Pretty sure there will not be a dam either.

I think from googling that, a 30m should see you (along, down, along underneath roof) to the top of the main drop. Then a 90m big drop free hang to the bottom (and so a 100m rope). But that's the Google'd impression I'm getting and not from any real life experience, so if anyone knows any different... info appreciated.

When not diverted, in "average" conditions I gather it gets quite moist, but in main hang, is this just a thorough soaking (like empty wellies out a few times during abseil) or danger of sucked into waterfall and literally drowned/death as that sounds less appealing. I'm hoping in average conditions rigged correctly it's a washing machine ride but not drowning death.

I'm also **assuming** that if it is cncc checked anchors then it'll be bomber resin anchors not antique rusty spits, certainly hope so or it it'd be something "worrisome" on descent

From what you're sayinging about the rigging it's a route I may have been on ( the Dihedral route?) but it's years since I was down there. Be aware that the guy I knew who did it was a caver who was also an excellent climber (not the other way round). I also had designs on the FFA but Dave got on with it while Chris and I just thought about it. At the time I was caving hard and leading at E4 on a good day. I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but it's not just a 100m E3. It's a very serious place for non-cavers, unfamiliar with SRT and how to proceed when things get hairy as they easily can underground. In the world of cave diving, to join the CDG you have to be a caver first, not just an experienced open water diver. If you are well versed in SRT then go for it but stack the odds in your favour.

Reading your comments asking about what the 'dampness' is like makes me think you aren't a caver? The effects of what you can meet on GG, even when it's low water level, is demoralising to say the least. Hanging around on belay in particular will suck the warmth out of you and numb your hands.

You did well to get out of Bar. My underground climbing was mainly free climbing up the odd short aven with a few runners and I think once I even took an old pair of rock boots down Easegill.

It wasnt that bad - no harder than 5c+ / 6a. Prob E1 if you are lucky - and a long time ago. Mind you there wasnt much protection. And it was a proper project, not just a desperate climb out. Called it "Bar None", which seemed more acceptable than the "Nine Bar" one of us wanted to call it......We (as cavers who were into climbing) did quite a bit of pretty hard stuff underground, but Paul and Dave's GG Rider was way above my pay grade.

Incidentally, how do you know them? We seem to know opposite sides of the same team.....

When I lived in Cumbria back in the eighties I bumped into Stew Wilson (who wrote the North of England guides). Stewie ran the Eden Valley Centre and Dave H was one of his employees. I used to do occasional work for Stew as well and that's how I met Dave. I don't think we ever actually climbed together though. I think everyone worked for Stew at one time or another. I remember going to a party at his place once and it was like spot the famous climber.

Apologies for confusion, when I said I was very tempted to take look, I mean LOOK, not to attempt G G R, that is beyond me and I'm in considerable awe of those who can. Don't panic, I can SRT with 1 rope (tautology?) or 2 ropes industrial style with my eyes shut literally above or below ground (mines). I don't want a GG rescue posted here about me. Although you're right I've not tried caving but definitely want to in the very near future. And had my eye on this one, yes I meant dihedral but direct or rat hole sound interesting but unlikely to be in condition unless we have a prolonged drought

Fyi Rigging guide here    file:///C:/Users/Chrisg/Downloads/CNCC_Rigging_Topo_Gaping_Ghyll_and_Jib_Tu...

Both routes are superb but require dry conditions and they are not allowed when the winch is on.

Thanks, I think that is trying to link to your desktop, but I found an 11.5MB PDF here: https://cncc.org.uk/caving/topos/download-all.php where page 23 is GG Main hang (Dihederal and Direct).

There isn't much descriptive stuff, such as how to identify the Jib tunnel and directions etc when standing at the obvious bloomin' great Gaping hole. My attempts to google for guidebooks (inc looking at Inglesport book section) seem poorly formed searches as I can find a heap of books about caving but not the equivalent to a climbing, scrambling, or mountaineering guide book - but for caves. In caving speak is it called something other than "guide book", what am I looking for?

Jib Tunnel is very easy to find. It's just up from the gaping hole itself, almost next to it. It's only a short distance from the entrance to the long drop. In fact a poor scout wandered in and fell to his death as he had no light and was just having a brief look inside the entrance. Give Inglesport a ring, they'll sort you out the latest guide. I have the old Ingleborough volume of Northern Caves (Dalesman) but that series is long out of print I think.

If you haven’t done much caving Tom Dihedral and GG main hang is not the place to start.

You’d want to make sure you are well away from the water here, as I’m sure you are aware water is pretty heavy stuff. Being in it here is not an option.

Anyway, respect to the guys for attempting GG rider, pretty impressive attempt. 

Thank You!

best avoiding Rat Hole to.

I'll second that - its not just the going up and down -- you need to learn to rig the route correctly first.

 How to rig, where the re-belays are and the deviations..... then there is the pendulum in Dihedral  

Its a pain rescuing someone stuck on a pitch anywhere - such as Bar Pot. GG main chamber pitches are a nightmare.

When Mike Wooding was solo pushing Far Country in G.G. he once had to solo out of Bar after a 12 hour trip, as it had been de tackled. An amazing bloke Mike.

Are you sure it was detackled, Phil? I've been in and out of Bar on numerous occasions and free climbing the 110 ft main pitch without any runners or rope would be highly unlikely in my opinion. The shaft walls are quite smooth from what I recall. I heard a lot of stuff about Mike but not this. If you read a bit further upthread Ian W reports freeing out of Bar at about 5+/6a. I'd imagine they had rock gear and footwear.  Getting out the first pitch would be remarkable too as it's quite awkward at the top. If Mike Wooding did this, solo and probably wearing wellies then he truly was one of the Gods of the Underworld.

Yup we used rock boots - but Mike was, as the saying goes, double bastard hard. his obituary mentions the solo out of bar, and tbf it was within his capabilities, and having seen some of the places Mike went solo, not the hardest part of the solo trip to the far country that day! His cave diving exploits were certainly a reference point to many of those who took that particular sport further in the 80's and 90's, especially keld head, so he certainly had the bottle to solo Bar pot.

I think it was only the top pitch - there was a ladder on the big pitch.

I can only say he told me so, but I must admit it doesn’t look easy, especially wearing wellies. However many improbable pitches have been climbed and as a member of the Eldon we used to try all the time to free climb pitches, but we did have a lot of excellent climbers in the ranks as well as part time members, including Al Rouse, Rab, Keith Myhill, Paul Nunn and others.

If that's so, Phil then massive hats off to Mike. As a caver/climber myself I was also always trying to free climb stuff. Usually short drops like the one that gets you into West Kingsdale Master Cave. I wouldn't even have thought of Bar. Early in my caving career we were 'marooned' in Rift Pot when some a-hole removed a ladder from a short pitch. Brian Evans was in our team so as a 'real' climber he was pushed up it! Do you know if Mike climbed on the surface? It's sounds like he would have been pretty handy.

He did go climbing but I don’t know to what standard. I started caving and moved on to climbing, but still do the odd trip. Also, as you might appreciate, when you look at pitches from a climbing aspect a lot more come into play. Most of Penyghent can be climbed including the big pitch and there,s loads of others

The story of Mike climbing out of Bar Pot is recounted by Jack Pickup in this video (about 12min in) :

youtube.com/watch?v=YMgq3d6mo3M&

The whole video, and indeed all of Sid Perou's library on youtube is a great way to spend a few hours, loads of climbing and climbing stuff (Pete Livesey/Ron Fawcett/John Dunne) :

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiYypZaslo-jl9ykq6jt5RQ

A side question - has anybody tired to free Titan? If it was dry in Kalymnos, it would be a mega classic

Thanks. I just found an online obituary for Mike. I had effectively retired from caving not long before which is why I hadn't heard about his demise (from a heart attack, diving in Meregill Skit). To have returned to cave diving in his sixties gives some measure of the man. This led me on to his involvement in the exploration of Mossdale Caverns which is a whole other story.

Can't remeber whether it was Swinsto or Simpsons but I climbed back out in wellies after pulling through a couple of pitches and realising there was probably going to be too much water lower down. Happy days.

The collectors piece in Peak that was free climbed was Joint Effort - first ascent of a very unleasantly loose climb beyond the sump. The name pays tribute to the calmers the first ascentionists utilised to maintain their composure during the rather risky venture at hand........

Question back to the rescue incident that started this post. Without any blame or grumbles, just as a question of fact.

Is it correct a comment I read that the climbers had no means to ascend rope they'd used to drop in? I also note the rescuers hauled them rather than assisting them to jug out themselves

Or is the real situation more complex than that?

Edit: apologies if this is detailed on some Facebook posts, I don't even go near FB

if you don't know what you are doing with SRT Dihedral is a bastard route - other options would involve a fair bit of caving then several SRT pitches... which would need rigging top down to start. Hypothermia a real risk with either of these options - let alone injury due to not knowing what doing or not equiped for

Safest and easiest way - long hard hall

Is that a new way into GG?

Sorry, couldn't resist

its the surface connection via Mud Hall.........

Bloody auto fill

Thats about the strength of it......

https://www.cravenherald.co.uk/news/19401491.cavers-rescued-gaping-gill-una...

That's not what that article says though?

I read it as they abbed in intending to climb out, but got stuck on the ledge with 40m to go........and didnt have the kit to jug up the rope (or i suppose couldnt reach it......).

I expect the rope wasn't in reach and a retreat back down from that point may not be possible without very very long ropes.

Agree. you'd have to be familiar with the shaft to be able to abb down again on a climbing rope length. And also have some means to rig on bolt hangers. Not likely to be sensible given things had clearly started going tits up already.

They abbed in, took no SRT gear and the route to green to climb above Birkbecks ledge

That sounds potentially suicidal if they abbed down Main Shaft without rigging it as a standard SRT pitch. Just imagine all the potential hazards of just 'chucking' a long rope in and following it down.

The random ab down is unwise....(assuming the 'pitch' is dry) trying to pusick up a rope like that which hasn't been set up is the suicidal bit (so perhaps the lack of srt kit showed some wisdom).

The biggest hazard being rope rub on the rock. You really need to know what you are doing to avoid this (and the waterfall....)......