UKC

Just wondering what your gyms mask policy is, and whether you agree with it. 

My gym was a masks optional gym until a few days ago. Now it requires masks when not physically on the wall. I'm thinking this is a really crap idea, because they're basically encouraging people to constantly be touching their masks (putting them on, taking them off), and then touching climbing holds. 

I tried searching for a thread like this, but surprisingly couldn't find one. If there is one already, I'll delete. 

While they keep repeating don't touch your masks I don't understand how touching it would stop it doing its job of preventing expelling covid. Seems like a hangover from March when it was assumed they prevented inhaling covid

The logic is that COVID can be transferred via touch to surfaces and if you breath into a piece of cloth for long enough it's going to have a ton of COVID on it. 

So you touch your mask, and then touch holds.. And, well... COVID-y holds. 

You can see CDC advice here saying not to touch your mask:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-to-wear-...

Not touching your mask isn't about your protection (much like masks in general aren't about protecting you), it's about stopping you infecting others. 

I presume there would be more virons from your breath than from your hands. You will breathe on the holds as you pass, so your hands having touched your mask is probably less significant. 

As far as I can tell, the major spreading events haven't been ones where people touch the same surfaces but ones where people breathe on each other (football crowds, raves etc) or infected air gets circulated (office blocks, restaurants etc). 

While it would be possible to be infected from surfaces, I presume it is considered less risk than breathing on other people at the bottom of the wall. The outside of you mask should't have too many virons on it and then only some of those would transfer to your hands and then only some to the holds. By that point the viral load is not massively high so unlikely to infect someone else.

This is all presumptions, I haven't seen data for it, but just going off what seems to be apparent from other settings.

Obviously only works in conjunction with frequent hand washing, does the wall have plenty of easily accessible hand washing stations? Ideally you should wash your hands after climbing and before handling your mask to put it back on, once you’ve taken your mask off To start climbing again you should then wash your hands again before touching the first hold. 😏

I am not sure where you are but in Wales the government has decreed that face coverings must be worn inside but have added in the:

"Another example is gyms and leisure centres. As these are indoor public places, you will need to wear a face covering when you go there and you will need to keep it on depending on what you are doing. If you are preparing to exercise, changing or undertaking any activity that isn’t strenuous, especially when in close contact with other people, you will need to wear a face covering."

So your options are keep putting it on and off, or don't do anything strenuous, just leave it on and add it to the range of excuses for not climbing to well (heavy gravity day, wrong shoes, that curry I ate 4 years ago etc).

Has masks in non climbing areas. Anything is going to be a slightly ugly compromise.

Not sure if I agree or not since really not sure what the best approach would be. Probably best would be wear all the time but then they will get unpleasant quick so would need switching every half hour or so.

This does seem to be supported by the emerging consensus -- that transmission via surfaces is way less of a risk than originally thought, and airborne transmission (including aerosols) much more so:

https://elemental.medium.com/the-most-likely-way-youll-get-infected-with-co...

You should only be handling your mask via the straps and edges anyway (so you're not touching the bits getting most of your breath), and sanitizing your hands after doing so. And if you're using liquid chalk with a sufficiently high alcohol percentage, that adds even more frequent sanitization.

But given the indications that Covid-19 requires a higher viral load to transmit than something like measles, you probably don't need to handle your mask like it's radioactive material.

The risk from transmission via exhaled breath (which the mask can reduce) is going to be way higher than the risk of transmission from touching the mask and then touching something else, or touching something else then touching the mask.

Pull your mask up when you're off the wall, then sanitize your hands. Pull your mask down before getting on the wall, chalk up with alcohol based liquid chalk, and that should be good.

I tend to find clouds of chalk kick my asthma off something rotten - there's nothing like an hour's indoor climbing to have me puffing on the blue stuff for hours afterwards.  I wonder if wearing a mask *to climb* might actually cause an improvement to that for me.

Can't try it out at the moment as I'm still recovering from DVT (and excess weight gained from being housebound for a month as a result of it which means if I climb I'll probably break myself anyway).

Any asthmatics tried it?

I often climb with a buff pulled up over my face in winter due to cold induced asthma. It does affect the ability to see your feet and leads to me overheating, but certainly helps my breathing. 

Can't comment re: asthma/chalk, but a friend's found that wearing a cloth mask when outside for Covid-19 reasons has been fantastic for her pollen allergies.

Just gel your hands when you take it off and put it on.  

Why not just leave it on? I'd be happy to wear one constantly if it means the walls stay open over winter.

Ultimately its their gym/ wall so its upto them.

Just take your business elsewhere if you do not like it.

I have stopped going to walls where I do not like their policies.Usually becuase they are too lax.

But you don't touch the inside 

Exactly.

I put it on before I walk in. If I need to eat or drink, I wash my hands, remove mask by the ear loops, put it back on and wash hands again.

Other than that, it stays on the entire time.

The weather is still good and coronavirus cases are rising. There's no winning situation here, but personally I haven't and won't be visiting a wall soon - despite being a three-times-a-week regular in normal winters. It sucks, but, putting aside all the dangers it represents to the community in general, the ultimate way to undermine your fitness gains is contracting "Long Covid". I do feel bad for people who rely on walls for income, though. There should be continuation to the furlough scheme - wtf are the Tories doing? Make sure you remember that they were happy for you to starve at the next General Election.

There is a simple solution to all of this...

We climb in Morph Suits

As masks were never designed to be worn for long periods you should throw the mask away after a very short time usage and use a new one, as the mask is harbouring all sorts of bacteria, washing hands doesn't keep a mask clean! There is probably more risk from the long term wearing of a mask than Covid !

you could just wash the mask rather than bin it?

Weather is still good.No need for a mask.

This is pretty much my thinking too. My local wall appear to have put in a lot of effort to attempt to create a "covid secure" environment, but I'm just not convinced that the risk/reward ratio is right for me as we move into the next wave.

I've been enjoying bouldering and scrambling in the Peak, and now as the weather starts to turn I'm planning to ride it out with more hill walking and hoping to get back to more climbing next year. Which does suck, but then so does this whole situation. I'm slowly learning to embrace the suck.

Only if it's a disposable mask.

Washable cloth masks are designed to be washed and re-used -- that's kind of the whole deal. Yes, you need to wash them after each use, but same with your underwear.

You are correct that it doesn't, in the sense that you are exhaling into it so it's (hopefully) trapping particles of any bacteria or viruses you may be carrying. Which is why you need to wash your mask (also because it'll get damp and gross), so you don't spread those around from your dirty mask.

However, washing or sanitizing your hands will prevent you from transferring virus particles from surfaces you touch onto your mask and contaminating it that way.

Nope.  As all the doctors and nurses who regularly wear PPE for large parts of their working lives without suffering any long-term health consequences have been pointing out. Surgeons would be dropping like flies if that was the case.

Have some de-bunking:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53108405

I believe there's evidence that people with pre-existing respiratory illnesses like COPD might experience breathing difficulty with N95 respirators (which are heavy duty and very tightly fitted).

But that's completely different from claiming that someone without respiratory illness is going to develop health problems because of having a couple of layers of clean cotton over their face for a few hours of their day.

Exactly. Plus we've got whole nations like Japan and South Korea to go off. They'd be having huge casualties if there were any truth to Nigel's quack theories.

Tell that to the industrial workers that wear them all day.

 Do some research. try infectious diseases and epidemiology aimed at sars-cov 2 

we are also talking surgical masks. Not saying don't wear but beware

of over complacency . 

BBC News ....mmmmmmmm!

Research something a little more scientific.

and I tend not to wear underpants over my head.

To be fair to him, they wear properly fitted N95 masks, usually valved, not a flappy piece of cloth.

What on earth is your reply to do with me?

I have been wearing surgical masks all day every day at work since end of March. For the first couple of months I wore them for 12 hour shifts, only removed them for 2 20 min breaks during the 12 hours. Now it's 8 hour shifts. I still seem to be just fine! Maybe I am superhuman! 

Yeah pretty much. 8.30 till 5 for me then I wear an addidas cloth one at the gym climbing bouldering or sport climbing. I did try to bite the rope with it on at the top of a route that gave me a laugh.

 Alot of gyms are skirting the rules on a knife edge (as far as I can see it) and I wouldn't be surprised if places get shut down again