UKC

Hardest summits in the UK

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 dr evil 20 Sep 2022

We all know that rock climbing is a contrived pursuit. You can always walk around the crag to the top right? Well you can’t always, for example The Inaccessible Pinnacle, Napes Needle, and The Cioch.

So what is the hardest summit in the UK by its easiest route? Here is a list off the top of my head for starters:

Old Man of Hoy E1

Old Man of Storr at least E2

Orval Pinnacle E3

Staffin Chimney Stack E5

There will be others but are any harder than E5?

In reply to dr evil:

Cat Bells during the school holidays E7 at least!

2
 CantClimbTom 20 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:

E7 or F7?  (But my "F" doesn't stand for "French")

In reply to Andy Clarke1965:

Snowdon on a bank holiday is genuinely impossible isn't it?

3
 Andy Moles 20 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

I'd be more confident about climbing Chimney Stack than the Old Man of Storr...

There are a couple of other free standing pinnacles at Staffin which are unclimbed, and I would think some parts of the Quiraing are unclimbed (and unthinkable) too.

 mike barnard 20 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

That's an interesting one. The Needle (XS 5c) and Main Drong (XS 5b) / Slender Drong (XS 5b) must be at least E2. Can't think of anything harder than 5c off the top of my head (even if we're talking Fowler grades).

There's a wee tower you pass on the descent from the Carn Dearg Buttress routes (maybe on Ledge Route?) which I always wonder if anyone has been to the top of.

 Andy Moles 20 Sep 2022
In reply to mike barnard:

> There's a wee tower you pass on the descent from the Carn Dearg Buttress routes (maybe on Ledge Route?) which I always wonder if anyone has been to the top of.

Funny you should mention that, I saw a photo of a friend on top of it the other day (a less well known Fowler).

 Andy Moles 20 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

Some of those mad little pinnacles at Brimham must be near impossible to climb?

 mike barnard 20 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

> Funny you should mention that, I saw a photo of a friend on top of it the other day (a less well known Fowler).

Looked pretty hard to me (assuming you couldn't jump onto it)!

 JLS 20 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

Probably not what you had in mind…  

Ivy League (7b)

 DaveHK 20 Sep 2022
In reply to JLS:

> Probably not what you had in mind…  

Good shout.

 petegunn 20 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

We used to climb and jump off the top of Ladram Lady near Sidmouth and managed to climb another sea stack in and around Ladram Bay whilst at college but I'm sure there are still a couple of stacks that have never had ascents. Nine inch nails, crampons and axes de rigueur!

 fmck 21 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

Stack Lee probably ranks pretty high albeit logistically. It takes some dedication to achieve. Restrictions due to bird life making landing only possible out with summer. I talked to one guy once who said it felt like a calm day but on reaching it the swell at the side was several metres. 

It's probably some rotten piece of rock covered in slime off the Scottish coast no one would dream of wanting to do.

 Andy Moles 21 Sep 2022
In reply to mike barnard:

It may be he used non free climbing tactics, I don't know.

 Andy Moles 21 Sep 2022
In reply to fmck:

> It's probably some rotten piece of rock covered in slime off the Scottish coast no one would dream of wanting to do.

Yeah there are probably a lot of these. But then I'm not sure, if it's impressive enough looking to be harder than E5 by its easiest route, someone's going to have a go.

Then you're into the question of whether an E5 finger crack is 'harder' than HXS deathchoss...I know which I'd rather do.

 tlouth7 21 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

Are there any mountain summits other than the InnPinn that require climbing or scrambling to reach?

 Pedro50 21 Sep 2022
In reply to tlouth7:

Pillar rock?

 drunken monkey 21 Sep 2022
In reply to tlouth7:

A few others on Skye I'd suggest would require varying degrees/grades of scrambling to get to the top.

 Cog 21 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

Orval Pinnacle and Chimney Stack were both climbed by Tyrolean, so Storr is probably top of your list.

 ChrisBrooke 21 Sep 2022
In reply to tlouth7:

Virtually all of the Cuilinn tops require some scrambling . The Cobbler summit reguires some scrambling as does the top of Stac Pollaidh. The three hardest summits are;

Mumros, Sgurr Dearg,(Inn Pin)

Corbetts, The Cobbler

Grahams. Stac Pollaidh

 Andy Moles 21 Sep 2022
In reply to Cog:

None of the Old Man of Storr routes is graded less than E4 in the current guidebook, and I don't think any of them was climbed fully free at E2? The Original Route used a peg for aid and now gets E5 in the guide.

Good quotes from Dave Macleod about the Staffin Face (E4): 'more or less every hold was freely detachable', and Leo Houlding on the Portree Face: 'I thought I was going to die...At 5c it logically equates to E4 but felt more like E7'.

 Stichtplate 21 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

The Summit pub in Haydock is properly hard. Bouncers frisk you on the way in to check you're adequately tooled up for your own protection.

 Cog 21 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

> None of the Old Man of Storr routes is graded less than E4 in the current guidebook, and I don't think any of them was climbed fully free at E2? The Original Route used a peg for aid and now gets E5 in the guide.

 Yes, I know. I didn't give it E2!

 Andy Moles 21 Sep 2022
In reply to Cog:

No I don't know where the E2 in the OP comes from, but I thought you'd have the Knowledge!

 Tony Buckley 21 Sep 2022
In reply to Stichtplate:

Not heard of that one.  Mind you, I've not been back for many years and have no plans to return.

(I hail from between the Huntsman and the Waggon and Horses.  Last time I was there, the first had become a Tesco express and the second was closed with no sign of becoming open again or anything else.)

T.

 Stichtplate 21 Sep 2022
In reply to Tony Buckley:

I’ve never been in, just driven past☹️

 Tony Buckley 21 Sep 2022
In reply to Stichtplate:

Probably very sensible.  Whatever the ambience the prospect of a decent pint in Haydock seems remote to me, probably because when I was there the place was a Greenalls beer desert.  Now Greenalls and the pubs I used to drink in are all gone, and I've long since left too.  Can't say I miss it.

T.

OP dr evil 21 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

Thanks everyone for the replies.

'I don't know where the E2 in the OP comes from' > I don't have the guidebook so I'm going on the grades given on the UKC logbooks which gives the Portree Face E2, not surprised if it's harder. I failed on the original route in the 80s which I think was given E2 at the time but was a seemingly holdless and protectionless overhanging groove so also not surprised that route now gets E5.

'Orval Pinnacle and Chimney Stack were both climbed by Tyrolean, so Storr is probably top of your list' > I think you would struggle to set up a tyrolean on the Orval Pinnacle, at least I didn't when I made the second ascent in the 80s. It's E3 5b but I suspect it's probably easier than Storr. I agree that the ironmongery on top and potential tyrolean for the chimney stack seem to reduce the commitment somewhat never mind the good rock and protection so The Old Man of Storr may well be, arguably, the hardest summit to reach in the UK. You are definitely not tyroleaing to the top of that one.

If so then that means that the Isle of Skye contains the hardest to reach Munro summit (the Inn Pinn) and the hardest to reach rock climbing summit in the UK (Storr). I also seem to remember that Skye had Britain's 'last unclimbed summit' in the UK which was climbed by the late Chris Dale on the Quiraing.

There may well be harder sea stacks I guess such as some of those mentioned in the thread. Anyway interesting stuff and thanks again for the comments.

In reply to tlouth7:

> Are there any mountain summits other than the InnPinn that require climbing or scrambling to reach?

I remember one the Cairngorms has a stack on its summit that might give some people brief pause for thought. Possibly Ben Avon.

In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

You're right about Beinn A'an.  Also a wee scramble to the top of summit tor of Beinn Mheadhoin in Cairngorms.

 Grahame N 21 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

> If so then that means that the Isle of Skye contains the hardest to reach Munro summit (the Inn Pinn) and the hardest to reach rock climbing summit in the UK (Storr).

The Munros are a well known list of hills (as are The Corbetts, and less so The Grahams), but there is another list of hills called The Dodds which are 'hills' between 500 and 600m high.  The Old Man of Storr is a Dodd, making it an extremely difficult list to complete, no ones done it yet  https://www.rhsoc.uk/dodds/

 drunken monkey 21 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

Some of the stacks out in St Kilda look nails and probably covered in birds half the year. Not sure if all of them will have been climbed.

 Cog 21 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

>  I think you would struggle to set up a tyrolean on the Orval Pinnacle, at least I didn't when I made the second ascent in the 80s. It's E3 5b but I suspect it's probably easier than Storr. 

'Dave Bathgate and Hamish MacInnes reached the summit by abseil, lasso and Tyrolean traverse in 1977.'

OP dr evil 21 Sep 2022
In reply to Cog: Amazing stuff! Great effort from Dave and Hamish no doubt an interesting tale behind that. So I guess that strengthens the argument for The Old Man of Storr being the hardest to reach summit in the UK?

 Andy Moles 21 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

Probably none harder mentioned specifically so far. The unclimbed columns I mentioned at Staffin could probably be reached easily enough from the clifftop.

I'm curious about the claim of the 'last summit' on the Quiraing...perhaps raises the question of where to draw the line as to what's regarded as a summit? I remember reading in the Skye scrambles guidebook that Sgurr an Coire Lobhta, a slight prominence near Bealach a' Bhasteir, was claimed as the 'last summit in the Cuillin'. The thing has a prominence of about a metre and can be walked onto very easily from the main ridge side, so that claim seems a little dubious in more ways than one... 

Chimney Stack now has two stainless bolts on the summit, I'm no expert on Tyroleans but I assume to reach it without climbing first you would have to lasso whatever's there (or the whole thing)? Sounds scarier than climbing it.

Post edited at 17:16
 GrahamD 21 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

> Some of those mad little pinnacles at Brimham must be near impossible to climb?

I find a lot of Brimham near impossible to climb   Good call, though.

 mike barnard 21 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

> I'm curious about the claim of the 'last summit' on the Quiraing...perhaps raises the question of where to draw the line as to what's regarded as a summit? >

There's a photo of it in Cubby's 'Climber's Logbook' if anyone else still has that? The claim is for last 'green' summit - an actual peak rather than rock stack. Going by the photo it's a pretty significant summit, though unless it's much harder than it looks, goodness knows how you could be at all sure no-one had done it before. I'm similarly sceptical about the certainty of likely FAs of some of the main Cuillin peaks. 

 kwoods 21 Sep 2022
In reply to mike barnard:

I'm no expert (at all!) but I've always wondered about the claim of Dun Dubh to be a final FA of a British summit. Just seems too convenient. And given how handy the St Kildans were at climbing, it's hard to imagine there weren't folk in the past scrambling up all sorts of stuff.

I always took the Cuillin FAs to be a bit of an alpine anachronism.

 Baron Weasel 22 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

Alexander Schulz walked to the summit of the Old Man of Hoy, although it was definitely more difficult than climbing it this way!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/10/german...

 kevin stephens 22 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

If you factor in the approach, Rockall

 Andy Moles 22 Sep 2022
In reply to kevin stephens:

That's not necessarily 'hard', if you hired a skipper you could spend the approach eating and sleeping.

 kwoods 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

Now morphed into 'Hardest kayaks in the UK'

 Dave Hewitt 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Grahame N:

> The Munros are a well known list of hills (as are The Corbetts, and less so The Grahams), but there is another list of hills called The Dodds which are 'hills' between 500 and 600m high.  The Old Man of Storr is a Dodd, making it an extremely difficult list to complete, no ones done it yet  https://www.rhsoc.uk/dodds/

In terms of listed hills (almost everything is listed these days), the hardest Hump (100m reascent) that isn't also a Marilyn (150m reascent - Stac Lee etc) looks to be the Old Man of Mow in Cheshire. It's supposed to be off limits and might well fall down at some stage, but I know people who have been up it.
https://www.hill-bagging.co.uk/mountaindetails.php?qu=S&rf=18980
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/mow_cop-1608/

With more mainstream lists, the hardest Wainwright summit is the Howitzer on Helm Crag although it's arguably not an actual Wainwright given that AW himself didn't get up it, hence it's not "required" to complete the list. I know people with large numbers of Wainwright rounds (eg one has 20, another 15) and they've been up it but their view is that rounds can be completed without it. It's just a scramble but felt quite precarious the day I did it (on a rope) after 15 hours of rain.

 Wicamoi 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

.... And then spend the next two months lying to just off Rockall, eating stale ship's biscuits and the odd rotten gannet, drinking rainwater collected on seagull-soiled tarpaulins, while you wait for the elusive weather window for landing, wondering whether the boredom, the botulism or the scurvy will kill you first.

And after all that it's only about Diff. Surprised more people haven't ticked it really.

 Dave Hewitt 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Wicamoi:

> And after all that it's only about Diff. Surprised more people haven't ticked it really.

I know a keen - and capable - list bagger who was once on a boat that sailed close by Rockall in reasonable conditions. He was keen to be put ashore and get up it but the skipper wasn't for it and they sailed on by. My friend was of the opinion that any landing would be approved of by the Government for territorial purposes given that it's so rarely visited, and he was probably right, but he wasn't in charge of the boat on the day in question.

Re the Old Man of Storr, there have been a few ascents - by Whillans in 1955 and MacLeod in 2009 (and also it seems by Fowler at some stage):

http://davemacleod.blogspot.com/2009/10/old-man-of-storr.html

But none of them would have been bagging Dodds!

 wercat 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Helm Crag is a tiny gem - surprising more people don't go to the summit.

(many family visits with children)

Post edited at 09:12
 Grahame N 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

>   ... perhaps raises the question of where to draw the line as to what's regarded as a summit? I remember reading in the Skye scrambles guidebook that Sgurr an Coire Lobhta, a slight prominence near Bealach a' Bhasteir, was claimed as the 'last summit in the Cuillin'. The thing has a prominence of about a metre and can be walked onto very easily from the main ridge side, so that claim seems a little dubious in more ways than one... 

Sgurr Coire an Lochain above Loch Coruisk is recognised as being the last 'major' summit to be climbed in Britain, on 12th September 1896.  Although of course what defines 'major' is open to debate.

 Andy Moles 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Wicamoi:

Oh, take some oranges and stop yer whingeing.

If you hear the sound of approaching rotors that'll be me in my helicopter.

 Andy Moles 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Grahame N:

Aye, in that case the summit is lower than a point probably less than 50m away where the ridge that connects it to Sgurr Thearlaich gains height...

 Andy Moles 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

> (and also it seems by Fowler at some stage)

First free ascent, apparently, in 1988.

 Dave Hewitt 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

> First free ascent, apparently, in 1988.

Ta.

There's a suggestion in the comments here:

http://www.hill-bagging.co.uk/mountaindetails.php?rf=1295
that the Orval Pinnacle might be a Tump - which would put it in one of the bagging lists if so.

 rogerwebb 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

> No I don't know where the E2 in the OP comes from, but I thought you'd have the Knowledge!

The 82 guide has Original Route at HVS  with no mention of aid and Portree face at Extremely Severe.

The 96 guide has them at E4 and E2

Reading this thread I am now much more relaxed about failing on Original Route in 83...

 Wicamoi 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

> Oh, take some oranges and stop yer whingeing.

> If you hear the sound of approaching rotors that'll be me in my helicopter.

A helicopter is it? You need to be careful with that kind of thing. When I let Dave Mac know that his heroics on Rhapsody had actually only earned him a second ascent (following my historic maiden flight to Dumbarton Castle in March 2006) he got a bit shirty with me. Something about " 'king aid Wicamoi, ya shameless cu - "  although I missed exactly how his phrasing resolved itself as my jetpack roared into life and I bid a simultaneous Adieu to the wearisome conversation and the treacly bonds of gravity both.

 Andy Moles 22 Sep 2022
In reply to rogerwebb:

And Staffin Face is E3 on UKC, which probably reflects the original grade of that. To be fair I don't know how much the grading of Original Route at E5 is based on, if it's just a guess based on failures? It sounds like none of the three routes has anything harder than 5c (maybe 6a on Original where the peg was used for aid?), but given the shitness of the rock and lack of protection, it's hard to see any amount of 5c adding up to less than E4.

 kevin stephens 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Wicamoi:

> .... And then spend the next two months lying to just off Rockall, eating stale ship's biscuits and the odd rotten gannet, drinking rainwater collected on seagull-soiled tarpaulins, while you wait for the elusive weather window for landing, wondering whether the boredom, the botulism or the scurvy will kill you first.

> And after all that it's only about Diff. Surprised more people haven't ticked it really.

Yes, obviously just needs bolting to make it attractive to the masses

 Max factor 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

> None of the Old Man of Storr routes is graded less than E4 in the current guidebook, and I don't think any of them was climbed fully free at E2? The Original Route used a peg for aid and now gets E5 in the guide.

Just one ascent in the logbooks!

 kevin stephens 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Max factor: I suspect a large proportion of people enjoying those sort of routes don’t bother with UKC logbooks

 LastBoyScout 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

> Snowdon on a bank holiday is genuinely impossible isn't it?

Did Snowdon once with an older family friend who isn't the fittest and it took forever - he was so polite, he kept stopping to let faster people past

 Andy Moles 22 Sep 2022
In reply to kevin stephens:

One of those shadowy characters tried to persuade me try it with him last year. I got my way and we went to Neist, though ironically I pulled off a lot of holds that day.

 Rick Campbell 22 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

This would be even more interesting were it about what the hardest summit in Saxony was, given that you're only allowed to climb on "summits a cow can't wander onto" and that there are at least a thousand of them. Is another coffee table book fomenting in your mind Dr E?

 Max factor 22 Sep 2022
In reply to kevin stephens:

Kind of the point. It gets hardly any ascents for a very inspiring looking piece of rock, even accounting for those operating out of the limelight. I think it's an excellent contenter for the most inaccessible summit.

In reply to Grahame N:

> Sgurr Coire an Lochain above Loch Coruisk is recognised as being the last 'major' summit to be climbed in Britain, on 12th September 1896.  Although of course what defines 'major' is open to debate.

Yes, very open to debate, because it's so subsidiary really, A lot of very good, hard, awkward scrambling, but the summit itself is very undistinguished.

Hard to say which is the hardest real mountain summit. I has to be either the In Pinn or Clach Glas. The former is just a lot of massive jugs, albeit very polished and exceptionally exposed. The latter is also very exposed, but has much more interesting climbing, technically, so at the end of the day I think it's the finer experience. The unspoiled nature of the summit speaks for itself. There's nothing tame about it. In a class of its own really. (Or should that be Clas?)

Post edited at 23:04
 Darron 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

The Old Man of Mow is a 50ft free standing pinnacle! Easiest route severe (scene of my first ever lead fall and a week off work). Mow Cop is the hill it’s on.

 Dave Hewitt 22 Sep 2022
In reply to Darron:

> The Old Man of Mow is a 50ft free standing pinnacle! Easiest route severe (scene of my first ever lead fall and a week off work). Mow Cop is the hill it’s on.

Yes, but crucially in Hump/Tump-bagging terms the top of the Old Man is a couple of metres higher than the top of the regular bit of Mow Cop - similar to the In Pinn / Sgurr Dearg situation insofar as one can compare Cheshire with the Cuillin. (Sorry to hear of the fall - hope it wasn't too sore/scary.)

OP dr evil 23 Sep 2022
In reply to Rick Campbell: I’m afraid so!

 Wicamoi 23 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

There's a thing called the Red Tower at North Third near Stirling. It's years since I've been there, and I can't recall how separate or significant the tower is - it's no Old Man of Storr that's for sure - but I think the easiest way up it is Red Shift (E6 6b). Perhaps someone else has a clearer memory of it.

 Darron 25 Sep 2022
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Fall was in the ‘70s so I’m just about recovered🙂. Thanks for your good wishes anyway.

 Dave Hewitt 25 Sep 2022
In reply to Darron:

> Fall was in the ‘70s so I’m just about recovered🙂. Thanks for your good wishes anyway.

That's good! Did you ever go back to the OMOM? I've never clapped eyes on it despite having been brought up not a million miles away - SE edge of the Peak, the old Derbys/Notts mining strip. In terms of similar strange isolated lumps of rock, as a boy I was struck by this (much closer to home) when I saw it one day:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/the_alport_stone-1307/

 Darron 28 Sep 2022
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Yes, I’ve climbed theOld Man several times. Never seen the Alport stone - must go and have a look!

 Carless 28 Sep 2022
In reply to rogerwebb:

When we did the FA of Staffin Face in June 88, we were actually there to do Original Route and failed to find it through incompetent guidebook reading

Glad Mick lead it as I wouldn't have gone near it. Only rock I've climbed on that I could crush in my hand. I particularly remember a belay on a very collapsing thread

 Andy Moles 28 Sep 2022
In reply to Carless:

Sounds scary enough to second, I don't imagine he found a sinker wire soon after the collapsing thread belay!

(I like the choice of word 'collapsing' to describe a thread, it paints a picture)

 Carless 29 Sep 2022
In reply to Andy Moles:

Was definitely a case of if Mick falls off, hope his gear is good as the belay probably won't hold

Was the end of a great week: did Big John, 2 routes on the Old Man, failed on a summer ascent of Great Overhanging, Kilt Rock and Storr

 Michael Gordon 29 Sep 2022
In reply to Carless:

> failed on a summer ascent of Great Overhanging,

That doesn't strike me as being much fun! A vegetated horror show?

1
 Jim blackford 29 Sep 2022
In reply to dr evil:

big picket rock xs 6a :  youtube.com/watch?v=HECpZ40PdgM& so surely in the ballpark of e5

the parson just down the coast gets e4 in the new south devon guide too

 InC 06 Oct 2022
In reply to dr evil:

What about Nelson's Column in London - tough E6

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/grading_nelson's_column-639771


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