UKC

Climbed for the first time at Hodge Close today, somewhere I've been intrigued by in the past. Did Sky (6b+), which was an excellent route, but thought it was a bit odd to have been retro-bolted.

Was it supposed to be E2 before it was bolted? Or is it meant to be E2/F6b+ (not a real grade) now it's been bolted. I didn't pay a huge amount of attention to the gear potential, but some of it's a crack which could be protected, and then there's bomber gear after the crux for the traverse. There would be a hard, reachy move miles away from any gear, I think.

It seemed that the route might be about E4 if it hadn't been bolted (not E2!). And what a great route it would be! It's a superb F6b+, but why have a fully bolted route somewhere that isn't anything like a sport climbing venue (abbing in 50m from natural anchors, mainly bold trad routes, etc).

Given that Hodge is popular with high standard bold climbers operating around E5, why has this route been numptified so it's easy enough for the likes of me? I really enjoyed it, but it would have been much better as a super-classic bold E4 I could have built up myself for and done at the brink of psychological and physical destruction, branding an HD memory into my psyche forever...

With all this said, I'm not massively keen on going back. Malice looks amazing, but I'm not doing that unless I'm convinced it's been done a few times recently. Behind the Lines was rank today, damp, loose and covered in shite. Big Mirror looked like a massive shit-up too, overgrown on the top traverse. Limited Edition looks good, but the database says E4 6b (=F6c??)...maybe a better venue for the E5 climber?

Hi Jon. I did Big Mirror about a month ago - a bit dirty on the top pitch but still well worth doing.

Limited Edition is not far off being a sport route. Malice has a scary section but I wouldn't worry too much about it having been done recently. The description is weird, the 'delicate and gripping' finish after the micro-wires is nowhere near as hard or scary as the bit to get to them.

Hodge Hole has always felt a bit weird to me. Neither nowt nor summat with some fairly standard sport routes, 'sportingly' bolted routes that  felt overly run out for proper sport and then some mega scary full-on trad (which I studiously avoided, naturally).

A couple of months ago I thought the whole place looked a total mess compared to its glory days but maybe it was just the after-effects of a hard winter.  Didn't help that most of Parrock had fallen down too. 

Certainly didn't encourage us and I used to love the place.

It’s a product of the Dinorwic ethics. Sporting bolting on the big routes and total safety on the little ones. Makes for very interesting climbing. I hope it can be somehow maintained to preserve the interest.

Horses for courses, I guess. Personally I've always thought 'sporting bolting' a cop out. If you are bolting then do the job properly or else leave the routes to trad climbers with the balls to do them. Half-arsed bolting, presumably for those with only half the requisite balls, just seems, well, half-arsed

Yours,

A Dinosaur

(who probably first climbed at Hodge in the 80s)

Malice has had a few ascents this year I believe and through the looking glass. I thought sky would have brilliant as a bold e4 but wasn’t bothered that it has been bolted. Limited is funny, one hard move by a bolt then run out but easy, still feels quite traddy despite the bolts. The e5/6s look amazing but haven’t got on them yet. I cleaned up face the music a few weeks ago also. 

I think hodge is a brilliant venue, but I’d rather go to a mountain crag and use it as a half day venue, the joys of being local. 

North wales slate had the same feel, bolts on trad routes next to sport routes, I find t part of the appeal.

Tim.

Cathedral Quarry has similar issues of updated and sometimes weird bolting. Darklands is now basically a sport route but still needs one or two pieces of gear for the easy section near the top unless you're very bold. I enjoyed climbing it but it sounds like it was much better as a sparingly bolted E3. Having said that, I can't understand why whoever fully bolted most of the route stopped 10m from the top. I could understand like for like replacement. I could understand full retro-bolting, though I'd disapprove. The chosen halfway house seems weird.

An Alabuse/Anal Abuse (choose space location depending on your sensitivity) also confused me. I assume it's had some bolts added because my experience of it didn't fit with the E3 grade it's recorded as on UKC.

The Wired selective guide gives Darklands a sport grade and "An Alabuse" E2, which both felt about right. Still an odd situation though.

Jon you've been an E5 climber for fuc*ING years... 

That’s what I meant by Dinorwic ethics, sport wasn’t fully embraced so a weird compromise was produced. It’s an historical anomaly.

Hodge close is amazing

Malice is amazing & is as always clean as a whistle!  (ok maybe a bit of dust below the roof but that's all easy with a bolt) more e4 than e3 though get it done.

Through the looking glass is also a brilliant e2 with stupid amounts of gear on offer.

Well done on cleaning face the music often thought about getting on that wall

Thanks everyone. Through the Looking Glass (E2 5c) is now firmly on the list, funny how it didn't make it into the Wired guide. Followed by Malice when I've done a few more Lakes E4s (only done One Step so far which I reckon is E3 plus I belayed my mate on it first). This is one of those routes that I saw a picture of when I first started climbing and has been in my head ever since...I have a habit of cocking these routes up after decades of build-up so I'll need to be feeling confident.

No one seems to know much about the retro-bolting though?

I think sky just grew bolts over the years as apposed to an all out retro... the bolts added to its popularity & someone obviously decided to fill the gaps - its nice to have a route like sky as it (almost) introduces people to that amazing wall in Hodge.

I only know of two other routes which are now full clip ups in Hodge (not counting those already bolted)

Viennese oyster which is an awesome route with one hard sequence at about 7a/+well worth doing for this sequence alone its unlike anything else!

&

Amphibian which is also fairly hard & certainly a sandbag in its original state at e3 6a again probably a hard 6c+ but could easily be 7a? maybe.....

***** owh & Second Coming! bloody hell get on second coming!  an extra 2? bolts now added and its brilliant!

The Wired Guide is one the worst guide books published in recent years. It’s far less useable than the old red guide. 

All sorts of great routes omitted. Double page topos where the you can’t see the routes in the middle. Crags described from right to left. Just awful...

Can’t wait for Lakes Rockfax!

Both got pros and cons. The drawings, beautiful works as they are, are a massive fail for the red guide. 

Sky was retro-ed quite a long time ago (late 90s I think) by a local activist off his own bat, it kicked up some dust at the time but the bolts ended up staying in. Yes it got E4 in its original state although it didn't seem to get done much compared with the other E3s and E4s in the quarry.

The whole place has always been gloriously inconsistent though and a flashpoint for local controversies. Limited Edition was a hybrid from the start though the actual number of bolts in it has varied quite a bit over the years...

I’m keen to get back and clean the other 2 routes off, keep in touch if you fancy getting there one evening.