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How To Improve At Jamming?

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 afx22 25 Nov 2020

Help!  I’m unbelievably bad at hand jams.  

For years, on and off, I’ve tried teaching myself how to jam.  Occasionally, I can get the odd move to stick but the vast majority of time, I get my butt kicked.  I either can’t get a jam to work, or I think I’ve got it, only for it it to slip out as I go for the next move.

I’ve watched the Wideboyz videos, bought the crack gloves, tried tape gloves and spent hours and hours seeking out cracks (on boulder problems).  Normally, if I tried hard at something for long enough, it clicks but I’m getting nowhere.  Today I spent two hours miserably failing a F4 (at Shipley Glen).

Has anyone been it this situation and conquered it?  If so, how did you do it?

 Dave Garnett 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

When you say your jams don't work, do you mean they move when you try to weight them, you don't trust that they will stay in and so you don't know whether they would work, or they are just too painful? 

Is this fist jams (until recently my least favourite), fat hands, thin hands or fingers?  How big are your hands, how fat are your fingers?  Are you coming away from a session bleeding? 

 abr1966 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

No advice sadly....I never ever managed to jam well....my partner loved it and any routes he chose would leave me in a right mess! Why does anyone even like jamming?? Climb slabs is my only advice....suits the better climber!!

8
 Ciro 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

Take a trip to Val del'orco and spend a couple of weeks multi-pitch crack climbing.

 Andy Peak 1 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

Learn to love it! Climb lots and lots of classic grit, don’t forget that your feet and body position are most important.

 Nathan Adam 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

I found doing lots of long trad pitches at lower grades (HS-HVS) was really useful for me learning as often you can avoid using the crack for feet and work solely on how the hand sticks. I would make a point of using the crack to jam rather than any holds round about it, and being on less intense ground gave me a chance to really zone in on that. 

I think also relinquishing to the idea that a large amount of the time the jam won't feel completely solid and you have to move on it anyway, it's just part and parcel. 

1
 1poundSOCKS 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

> Has anyone been it this situation and conquered it?  If so, how did you do it?

Lots of practice in a low stress environment. So either a low boulder or top rope is best for learning the technicalities. Plenty of ground levels cracks and jams at Almscliff for example.

And the Pete Whitaker book is worthwhile.

 Offwidth 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

Get yourself to Dog Leg Crack at Curbar and work it until you can lap it above a bouldering mat. Try to vary hand positions and jamming pressure to work out the most efficient methods. Then, move along the edge to Little Innominate and repeat. F4 jamming problems at places like Shipley are no pushover... might be equivalent to UK tech 5b on some softer graded routes in the Peak.

Another tip is never pass a jam on a route without using it.  Jamming in gritstone breaks soon becomes second nature and provide a welcome half rest. 

Post edited at 17:28
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

The mechanics of hand jamming take minutes to learn - and years to perfect - are you doing it right? Hand in crack, thumb pushed into the palm of your hand, done - should be a locking jam. Fist jamming is a bit different/harder and it helps to have fat fleshy hands - 'hams' as mine have been called,

Chris

Post edited at 17:41

cb294 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

Contrary to the myth jamming is LOTS of technique in addition to pain resistance. Hand jams are probably the easiest to learn and not normally painful, so I assume your technique is flawed somehow.

I would recommend to get to the bottom of some crack, maybe even on a building*, and simply practise the first two or three hand placements, initially not even leaving the ground.

One common beginner's mistake that I could imagine may cause your problems is to remain too central in front of the crack. In this case, all the jamming force must come from expanding your hand and/or from actively rotaing your forearm with pure muscle power in a not very ergonomic posture.

Getting your body weight slightly to the side of the hand you have just placed will recruit your body weight and lock in your jam by "torqueing" your forearm once your body start to sag a bit. This works both thumbs up and thumbs down.

CB

* For the last three years I have had two square concrete pillars in my office which make for a 3.5m high, absolutely smooth offwidth (14.5 cm wide). Just locking in and loading the jam every now and then (and occasionally climbing up to the ceiling) has done wonders for my hand / fist stacks and calf bars! Who knew that 1970s neobrutalist concrete architecture can actually be good for something!

1
OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to Dave Garnett:

I’d say 70% of the time, I struggle to find a position where the hand(s) jam feels solid enough.  20% of the time it feels ok but slips when I move for the next hold - often causing me to fall and taking some skin.  The other 10% it sticks.  Often pain is a problem but I try to battle through.  

I try all sorts of jams.  Today was on a problem called Straight Crack, a vertical crack, just left of Red Baron.  It all seemed to be Paddle Hands, as Pete Whittaker calls it.  I could get one hand to stick but not the second hand.

I often end up with small cuts and crushed purple areas but not too mashed.

OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to Andy Peak 1:

> Learn to love it! Climb lots and lots of classic grit, don’t forget that your feet and body position are most important.

I want to get to that point.  It’s difficult to love it when I can barely get off the ground.  But I’d love to get there.

OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to Nathan Adam:

I’m not a Trad climber but I get your point.  I’ve been trying to seek out jams, whereas I used to layback or crimp my way up cracks.

 climbingpixie 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

> Has anyone been it this situation and conquered it?  If so, how did you do it?

I used to be in the exact same position. I could happily push my grade on the other forms of climbing but would be being spat off a VS 4b jamming crack in the Peak. My lack of ability was embarrassing, pathetic and limiting. Happily, I solved my jamming problem with a two week trip to Lofoten. It turned out that what I really needed was some cracks up slabs, allowing me to work out the technique without getting pumped in the process. I pretty much had an epiphany on Bare Blåbær and by the top of it I was a fully paid up member of the jamming fan club. I got back and went from falling off easy jamming cracks to onsighting Suicide Wall and romping up stuff like Bond Street. I'm still not an amazing jammer but I don't fear it and can happily rest on a good jam when I'm pumped.

ETA - I know stuff like Suicide Wall and Bond Street aren't very hard jamming but I'd have never been able to do them before the Norway trip!

Post edited at 19:31
OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:> Lots of practice in a low stress environment. So either a low boulder or top rope is best for learning the technicalities. Plenty of ground levels cracks and jams at Almscliff for example.

> And the Pete Whitaker book is worthwhile.

I’ve played on crack loads of times at Almscliff, for instance on the easy traverse, to the left of Demon Wall.  The horizontal cracks are often ok.  The vertical ones are the ones I find the hardest.  I do need to try more.

I was concerned about whether the PW book would help me. There were a few videos where he was trying to teach The Dabrats (YouTubers) to jam.  Only 1 out of 3 of them seemed to get anywhere.

 wbo2 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22: I'd agree with others... I've been reteaching myself this summer.  Avoid the fancy stuff, find some very easy slabs with hands and fingers and practice till it clicks.

When it clicks it suddenly will make sense,

OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to Offwidth:

I’ll definitely give Dog Leg Crack a go when lockdown allows, although have seen photos of it, I’d be a bit worried about the jams popping out at the top where a fall might sting a bit.

I’ve been trying to actively seek out and use the jams.  In the last six weeks or so I’ve played on the one on Joker’s Wall at Brimham, a great looking F5 at Scout Crag - I even had two days trying to jam the start of Flake Ache.  Today’s jamming was supposed to be a warm up, before getting on Manson’s Wall but I ended up spending almost all my time of the F4 crack.

OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to Chris Craggs:

> The mechanics of hand jamming take minutes to learn - and years to perfect - are you doing it right? Hand in crack, thumb pushed into the palm of your hand, done - should be a locking jam. Fist jamming is a bit different/harder and it helps to have fat fleshy hands - 'hams' as mine have been called,

> Chris

I’m definitely doing it wrong

 Mr. Lee 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

The problem with not being a trad climber is that it's going to take you a lot more boulder problems to build up the equivalent mileage. With jamming it's largely about mileage and slowly getting more proficient with practice. I remember Pete Whittaker or Tom Randall for example quoting a silly number of metres needed in order to get proficient in each jamming width. Worth finding someone who you can second? It definitely helped me to watch/belay friends who were better jammers than me. 

OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to cb294:

That sounds like the sort of thing I’ve been trying.  Sometimes I seem to get a jam locked in, with my arm braced somehow.  This works great until I need to move.  Either I can change the angle of my arms (so can’t move upwards), or more often, as I move up, the angle changes and the jam releases, causing me to fall.

The concrete pillars thing sounds a bit mad!  I like it.  Maybe I can make a wooden hand jam that I can hang from a fingerboard.

OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to climbingpixie:

Your epiphany is the sort of thing I need.  

The Lofoten Islands look amazing but there’s an amazing overhanging arête boulder called The Fisherking (I think).  I think I’d be too distracted by that to get any crack climbing done

 1poundSOCKS 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

> I was concerned about whether the PW book would help me. There were a few videos where he was trying to teach The Dabrats (YouTubers) to jam.  Only 1 out of 3 of them seemed to get anywhere.

I find the book a useful reference, on awkward widths especially (fat fingers, thin hands, etc). If you find yourself struggling you can do some reading then go back and try something different. I think anybody keen to improve can get value out of it.

OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to Mr. Lee:

That makes perfect sense.  I just don’t enjoy Trad.  Too much faffing with ropes and gear.  But I think being able to jam confidently might lead to me enjoying Trad.  I’d love to be able to cruise The File or some of the cracks at Millstone.

2
OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Ok, I’ll buy it.  If I learn one thing then it’s worth it.  If not, it’ll impress the ladies

 jcking231 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

In fairness that particular problem is an outrageous sandbag, even for Shipley

I recommend running a few laps on Bird Nest crack at Almscliff. There are plenty of fist jams and a few solid hand jams at a pleasant HS 4b.

cb294 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

If you have a simple, vertical crack you can practice by placing one hand, lock off by leaning to that side, place the second hand, jam it with hand power only, and shift your balance to the other side which locks off right as the first hand starts needing a bit more hand power. Sort out your feet (they should do all the lifting in hand cracks, the hands only keep you from tipping backwards), then rinse and repeat.

If the crack leans to one side you have to adjust, often "swimming" upwards with the leading hand thumb down and the trailing hand thumbs up. Still, you shift body weight left and right to help lock off.

CB

 TobyA 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

> I just don’t enjoy Trad.  Too much faffing with ropes and gear.

Why not just avoid the odd boulder problem that needs jams then?

> But I think being able to jam confidently might lead to me enjoying Trad.  I’d love to be able to cruise The File or some of the cracks at Millstone.

Most of the best and hardest routes I've done (hard for me, not actually that hard) have been cracks. There's something just super pleasing about following a crack for 40 odd metres, they also tend to not be scary as you can put more gear in wherever you want!

 cheese@4p 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

The crack you mention on Jokers Wall at Brimham will be Minions Way, a notorious painful hand chewer even for thouse who can hand jam well. Not the best example to learn on.

 1poundSOCKS 25 Nov 2020
In reply to jcking231:

> I recommend running a few laps on Bird Nest crack at Almscliff. There are plenty of fist jams and a few solid hand jams at a pleasant HS 4b.

The start of South Chimney Layback is good value too. Can be made safe with a pad.

OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to TobyA:

I just think I should be able to jam.

Years ago, I look a nasty fall on a slab.  I hated slabs for a while.  Then I decided to do as many slabs as I could and now I love them.  I’m no Jonny Dawes but I feel comfortable on many of them.  I’ll like to feel the same about jamming.

1
OP afx22 25 Nov 2020
In reply to cheese@4p:

That makes me feel a little better.  Thanks

 PaulTanton 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

I’ve met people before who can’t jam.  I think I learnt on climbers club direct at the Dewerstone many years ago.  Once you get it, it’s a joy.
Jamming is very energy efficient. You can hang on a good jam and rest without too much effort so it’s well worth the effort to learn the technique. 

A little secret is that sometimes you don’t need to rely on a full on jam. You often find a small  crack or hold inside the crack that you can use in conjunction with the main jam. This makes life a lot easier and you look like a complete hero as you’ve mastered the jam.

Other times the crack is just the wrong size for your hand and it’s a complete bar steward. 

good luck

 gimmergimmer 25 Nov 2020

Practice jams on really easy climbs-diffs and v.diffs .Where it doesn't really matter. Do loads of them. Just like you'd practice musical scales and not an orchestral piece.  If that doesn't work just climb at Almscliffe.

Post edited at 22:01
 Offwidth 25 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

By work it I meant top rope so you don't need to worry about falling or resting when required. The top is fist jams for most, a skill you will need. As climbingpixie rightly said you need to make the exploration pain free and not under stress. Lower grade Lofoten or California is a possible but a much more expensive alternative.

 Michael Hood 26 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

Yong (HVD 4a) at the Roaches is another "easy" crack that you can put lots of jams in. Probably slightly less soloable than Dog-Leg Crack (HVD 4a).

Don't get tempted to just climb the slab on the right 😁

 TobyA 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

>  Probably slightly less soloable than Dog-Leg Crack (HVD 4a).

I live close to Curbar so have soloed Dog-Leg a number of times. It's great but I agree if you aren't a competent hand jammer it wouldn't be a great one to try soloing. Someone above suggested doing it over a mat - I last did it a few months ago and IIRC the ground slopes steeply below the route, I've taken my mat in the past and remember thinking it was of limited use. It's not very big but the top is high enough to not want to jump off. The hard boulder "problems" either side of this "route" must be terrifying with out a stack of mats and a squad spotting!

 Offwidth 26 Nov 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Immediate soling is the last thing I'm suggesting. You can't focus on improving technique if you are worried about falling off. Doing solo laps, when confident, locks in the movement 'engrams'. A mat then is just a precaution.

One of the great things about being competent on jams is you can function for up to an order of magnitude longer when tired. A good jam really is better than a jug.

 Michael Hood 26 Nov 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Yes but at least on Dog-Leg I think you'd hit the mat. If you were unfortunate enough to come off Yong I think there would be a large chance that you'd totally miss any mats.

Having started my climbing on grit before (usable) climbing walls were around, I learnt to do easy grit jamming (which is what these are) so they've always been nice solos. I do appreciate though that wall-bred climbers have to learn to jam and they usually first come across it at higher grades where it becomes a complete "stopper" for them.

Heather Wall (HVD 3b) at Froggatt is of course yet another "easy" one - can be done without jamming (why would you do that?) but it's a nice easy angle so if you're learning you can play with the jams in relative comfort.

 TobyA 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Heather Wall is super isn't it? I soloed it a few years ago thinking I hadn't done it before. It felt completely safe because every move on it from what I remember I had one hand locked solidly in. I later found an old guidebook where it said I had led it in 2000, so had just forgotten I had done it in the intervening 17 years!

 TobyA 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Offwidth:

> Immediate soling is the last thing I'm suggesting.

Indeed. Immediate soloing could lead to immediate soiling of underwear.

In reply to cheese@4p:

> The crack you mention on Jokers Wall at Brimham will be Minions Way, a notorious painful hand chewer even for thouse who can hand jam well. Not the best example to learn on.

Just an aside. If you look closely at that photo I took of John Syrett soloing the first ascent of Joker's Wall, you will see there is a runner and sling hanging from the bottom of Minion's Way. I could do Minion's Way with not too much difficulty, but it is indeed  butch even if (like me) you like jamming. I placed those slings there to get up the first bit of Minion's Way quickly and easily to an alternative camera position. 

 Darron 26 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

One of the very best guidebooks ever written ‘On Peak Rock’ (1992?) had a list of routes to get you good at jamming. A progression through the grades if you like. No doubt somebody will be along to remind us what they were 😊

 deepsoup 27 Nov 2020
In reply to Darron:

They were the 'five jamming tests' - more the end of year exams than a curriculum for the course if you see what I mean.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=7

There are lots of other jamming ticklists on the logbooks here, lots of old threads in the archive you could sift through to see which routes get recommended again and again.

OP afx22 27 Nov 2020
In reply to Darron:

I’m a boulderer, rather than a Trad climber, so I’ve been looking for boulder problems that require jamming.  I’ve alway though The File looks cool though.

OP afx22 27 Nov 2020
In reply to Darron & Deepsoup

I’m a boulderer, rather than a Trad climber, so I’ve been looking for boulder problems that require jamming.  I’ve alway thought The File looks cool though.

 Offwidth 27 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

All those are cool classic routes to celebrate having reached the skill levels required. They are not good learning venues. 

 Wire Shark 28 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

I'd suggest looking up Bob Marley's  excellent treatise on the topic. 

 rurp 28 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

The key for me was understanding that the feet make the progress and the hands hold the position whilst you place gear/reset the feet for the next push. 
The slight slipping of the hands when shifting body position and the over focus on pulling with the hands can take your concentration away from how to make power from your feet. With bouldering jamming problems the feet only engage briefly so you won’t get to practice much with the feet.

The perfect trad jam crack to start for a boulderer is above the overhang on Tody’s wall. Perfect jams on a slab, gritstone heaven after the commitment of the first bit. You can really enjoy the view and the jams and the initial bit is a good boulder problem ( you will need a rope and a few cams though otherwise it would be an ‘interesting’ high ball) 

good luck and happy jam making

 GrahamD 28 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

I would say that at the level of technicality you are trying to achieve  you really need to be romping up 4c an 5a cracks.

Personally   I'd say if you can struggle up stuff at this grade  persevere.  I wouldn't start with tape or gloves whilst learning because they can mask difficulties you might have with placement and loading of jams.

1
OP afx22 28 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

Straight Crack (f4)

Hi all.  I ended up going back to this on Thursday night.  I finally managed to climb it, after another two hours of thrashing about.  I’ve never had to project a Font 4 before!

It turned out that a crack glove on one hand helped but hindered on the the other hand.  I couldn’t fit the second hand in all the way in, even without a glove or tape on.

My mate waltzed up it and was able to easily jam - but his hands are thinner than mine.

Anyway, I ended up getting both hands jammed and having to snatch into a layback, while stood on sketchy smears.  Basically in terrible style.

I’m looking forward to practicing on some easier cracks but will go back with what I learn.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice.

1
 Cameron3298 28 Nov 2020
In reply to afx22:

Dont worry about it bro, dog legs only a couple of meters up, nice but sloped landing or top rope it there's a wicked spot for a big cam ?no4? on the shelf bit at the top was the main point on the anchor I set for my brother to try it

Post edited at 18:13

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