UKC

Hey guys,

What are your thoughts and opinions on Janja’s capabilities outside of IFSC competitions? In actual rock climbing...

I am asking this because she seems to be one of “all-time greats”. She may be young but we have seen enough I think...

She obviously loves to compete and win indoors, but the only real way to compare true greats is if they climb on graded walls. She may have 50 wins at the end of her career, but people in 2030 may say: “climbing was still in its youth and there was no real competition”

So how high do you think her ceiling is outdoors and do you think she should actively try to achieve it?

My opinion is that she is wasting her talent if she doesn’t achieve someting future generations can directly compare with

She can do whatever she wants

What has she done on grit?

Well she does whatever she wants... Smartass

I'm sure she'd really value your opinion, as she probably has no idea yet what she wants to achieve in climbing and your post is so packed with wisdom.

I think that indoor competitions are another arena people can excel in.

Enough in what sense?

Or they may say she was a strong competitor?

I think future generations may seek to be as strong a competitor as her. 

Interesting attitude...

Ondra is setting new records. So is Margo Hayes... I was just curious if any of you think she should try it too.

I guess climbing community is not as cool and friendly as the ambassadors of this sport are haha.

Forget it...

Aw, shucks. Never mind, eh?

Future generations will seek to surpass her probably. She needs to give them something to better...

it is what it is

Had to google her to find out who she was. She should come and try some Northumberland sandbags....

It could be that I totally missed the forum topic... Looks like it judging from the mean responses to my question... Apologies if so

No need for being assholes tho... 

I do understand where you're coming from, I used to think the same of other comp climbers. Thankfully climbing seems to give you breaks at older ages and Janja (and any other competitors) may choose to pursue outdoor climbing in the full after they 'retire' from the competition circuit. They also might just quit climbing, as for them climbing is a formalised competitive activity so once you've retired, what's the point? That's not too far off Jerry Moffatt's exit from climbing. 

She is doing, no?

With the death of all life on earth if we don't find another planet being a certainty when the sun dies, it doesn't matter in the end - so long as we're nice to one another and helpful in the ways we need to be to live together in peace (imho).   

She doesn't need to do anything but be happy in her life.

I understand where he's coming from too, but it's another (admittedly quite novel) take on the old 'this is what climbing means to me so that's what it should mean to everyone' line.

If someone wants to spend their entire life doing a 2m boulder problem ever more beautifully, or winning pretty much every world title they seriously vie for, it's entirely up to them. Some I will hold in greater esteem, depending on my own preferences, but I dodon see why I should expect nor want anyone to change.

I agree. 

But by your definition of what matters and what doesnt... why would she even compete if all that matters is happiness in life and yada yada... She competes because her happines is in being better than the rest.

You don’t make much sense and you aren’t even nice, helpful or peacefull really..

What is this hellhouse I registered to?? It looks fun tho. I think I’ll stick around...

To somebody else being better than the rest wouldn't equal happiness - but to her it does - so she's doing what matter to her to make her happy/happier.  

How have I not made sense? I certainly try to be nice, helpful and peaceful - but there you go.

I'm sure you'll fit right in.

8b onsight, 8c flash and 9a redpoint - you should probably get in contact with her and let her know how much talent shes wasting, i'm sure she'd be desperate to have you as her coach.

https://www.planetmountain.com/en/news/climbing/janja-garnbret-climbs-her-f...

I wonder what the OP would define as historically significant climbing, when Janja Garnbret is one of a select few females to onsight 8c?

I wonder where her ceiling is

You’re part of the climbing community too, you know? Calling people who don’t quite agree with what you’ve said a$$holes doesn’t exactly make me think you’re particularly cool or friendly.

Directly above her floor probably.

Considered the financial side of things? In the China Open a gold medal was worth £10k. 

Interesting questions. I certainly agree she is one of the all time greats, the female equivalent to Ondra I would say in the sense that she seems to be a step ahead of everyone else.

I don't know how much time she actually has to go climbing outside. This year she skipped a bunch of the bouldering comps to focus on school work I believe. That was kind of surprising for me as she would almost certainly be giving up not only the probability of winning but also a decent amount of money too. So she has other priorities aside from climbing. I'm sure she knows what's she's doing and has carefully thought about all her options.

I think it's quite common for a lot of competition climbers to focus solely, or almost solely on doing comps these days. Jernej Kruder's win of the boulder WC at the weekend shows that's not completely necessary but nevertheless just going round the comps and staying in good shape obviously takes a good bit of time. If you're trying to do school work too I imagine it's just too much.

Janja has climbed outside a bit and is already leaving her mark there. A year or so back she flashed 2 8c's at Santa Linya. Not sure if that has been matched by any other women?

She also tried Biographie but again was very time limited - maybe only a day? I think she was pretty close to doing it too, which is incredibly impressive. So she's not uninterested in real rock, it seems like she doesn't have that much time for it at the moment.

In terms of breaking new barriers on routes or boulders it's now pretty hard for women. Ashima has climbed f8C and the first 9a+ and 9b route grades have also been done by women now. For 9b+ there's currently very little to go at: well just 4/5 routes in fact. Dura Dura looks like it requires a massive span. Vasil Vasil doesn't appear to be the most inspiring of lines. El Bonne Combat looks like a series of massive dynos that are probably even harder for shorter climbers. Change is far away and logistically more difficult with weather windows etc.. Perfecto Mundo is perhaps the best bet but it's only just been done.

But anyway it seems like she has plenty of time left to do stuff on rock. Just look at Angy Eiter's ascent of La Planta de Shiva. It's a good few years after she competed on a regular basis.

Maybe the women will need to start finding their own new routes to keep pushing the grade up.

As a thought experiment, imagine you were an IFSC routesetter and someone asked you to create a route that Ondra could do but Garnbret couldn't.  My guess is it wouldn't be that hard.   Could you set a route that Garnbret could do but Ondra couldn't.    That might be more difficult.   But if the challenge was to set a boulder that Ashima could do a few years ago (i.e. when she was younger and smaller) but Ondra and the best of the men couldn't that might be possible if you set something where being very small and light was a huge advantage: for example put the crux hand and foot holds really close together so a big tall person can't use them effectively.

I think this could be directly relevant to women getting the very highest grades outside.  They need to go out and find stuff that suits them: problems where being smaller, lighter, more flexible and so on is an advantage and you don't get so much from brute strength or arm span.    At some point my guess is the routes that women can do at that grade will diverge from the routes men get at the grade.  Unless women start putting up more new routes themselves maybe there will always be fewer women getting routes at the highest grade.   

Interesting idea but I think one of the problems without outdoor routes in this context is that the fact they're not set by route setters but by nature. As standards go up it becomes increasingly more difficult to find routes that are both possible but not too easy. With current fitness levels one decent hold on a route means a climber can fully recover. Conversely all it takes is one short gap with insufficient holds and the climb becomes impossible.

So whilst your idea may be theoretically possible in practice I suspect the search for such a route could take forever. Also it seems like most hard routes these days are found and equipped by the climbing community rather than the first ascensionist. This is surely an indication of just how hard it is to even find a route of 9b.

In contrast I think Janja has a much easier time with competitions with lots of prestigious goals to go at. The first female to win both bouldering and lead in the same year for instance. I think she could have done that this year had she just completed the bouldering circuit. She may well take the double crown at the forthcoming World Championships. Then there's other things like most wins, most overall titles, most podiums etc. And all this will be leading up to the Olympics. First Olympic climbing champion is going to be a unique prize to be written into history books. In a logistical sense comps are just so much easier. All she has to do is train and turn up and climb well. Big goals outside are just fraught with logistical difficulties these days.

I was at a talk by Adam Ondra recently where in response to a question from the audience he expressed the opinion that Alex Megos is capable of climbing 9c but probably couldn't do Silence - i.e. when it's that close to the limit, each climber has to find something that exactly suits their particular strengths and style.

A bit like Beth Rodden did ten years ago with Meltdown, which, for the most part, was dismissed by the climbing media because allegedly her small hands gave her an unfair advantage over the guys that couldn't climb it.

I agree with all this except that when the small number of 9b routes are selected by elite male climbers to be just possible and no more for them then they are inherently going to be pre-selected to play to the physical characteristics of elite male climbers.

If, for example, a potential route requires a move that a taller or less flexible male climber finds impossible and only male climbers are doing first ascents then that route won't get a first ascent.   Female climbers that are trying to repeat 9b's will find it more difficult to find routes at the grade they can do when all the 9bs are put up by male climbers than they would if there were a larger group of female climbers putting up hard new routes.

But I don't think new lines are done like that. On anything more than slightly overhanging - which obviously all routes of this grade will be - you don't get to try the moves until after the line has been bolted. Top ropes and ab ropes are no good coz you end up swinging out from the rock.

You don't even know how hard (or easy) something is until you start properly working it and by that point, particularly if you've placed the bolts, you're already invested in it.

I suppose you can tell something about the style of climbing from looking from the ground: the angle of climb, whether is pockets or edges and sometimes a clue as where the crux might be. But most of the time I don't think you could tell whether the climb is more suited to say Janja Garnbret or Chris Sharma first without both of them trying it.

Generally it's the rock itself that determines the lines. There might be two routes at a crag with a gap in between. Someone might see the possibility of line and bolt it. If it's in the 9b range it will probably be left undone since almost no one climbs that hard. Then one of the world's elite may visit, give it try, figure out it is possible for them to do, and if they like it continue trying it until they succeed.

At that level of difficulty I think one is lucky to find an unclimbed line at all let alone one that happens to be perfectly suited to your strengths and other people's weaknesses.

Definitely some decent money available throughout the WC rounds if you are as consistent as she is. As well as bigger purses at one off events. Would she be able to earn the same climbing outside...not a clue. For Janja I'd guess the fact the thing she loves doing provides her with some cash is just a bonus though.

Unfortunately for the large majority of climbers competing, those who are not fortunate enough to be making finals at every event for example its a costly pursuit.

Oh, I agree completely. Doesn't hurt though! 

It must be pricey. £3k just to enter the full circuit, or? Not including travelling etc and not being able to work... 

No definitely can't hurt , especially for athletes like Janja doing well consistently in both lead and boulder. She is definitely the exception rather than the rule though.

Funding varies from nation to nation, some teams are fully funded-must be nice, our athletes are the opposite and fund it all themselves. As you say flights, accommodation and time off work all add up.

I thought she was a climber?