UKC

I was listening to this great podcast from the New Yorker on the way home about the world's greatest surfer building the worlds most perfect wave: https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/the-new-yorker-radio-hour/the-new-yorker-...

The journalist (a surfer himself) and another surfer-writer discuss it very interestingly, how it is everything they've travelled over the decades to find - the perfect wave - and you want to (and can) just ride it again and again. But is this a good thing or not? They seem uncertain.

But climbers have had climbing walls for 30 years now. The surfers should ask us what it does for the sport. But if you remove the movement and feel aspect of the sport from the environment and the power of nature around it, is it real? I love ice climbing, I haven't been to indoor ice wall - but I really don't have any interest in doing so. It seems to me a poor facsimile of the real thing. Climbing walls don't particularly excite me, but I enjoy going to the wall sometimes and see how it's training. Ice walls just don't seem to offer even that. Is an artificial wave, even if perfect, different? And if so, why?

I suppose it's like the snow centres around the UK it's a good place to learn the skills you need in advance of a holiday so you can enjoy your time more when you get there.  It's not as good or as much fun or as uplifting as being outside but it's better than being on the sofa.  

Or its like taking kayaks in a swimming pool to practise capsizing and rolling.  

There are skills that need to be learnt and practised and not everyone has regular access to the best places to play all year round.  

That's how I see climbing walls and fake waves and such like.  I know not everyone sees it that way and some people are happy paddling concrete ditches as an activity in itself not just as training for the real thing.  

Each to their own I guess. 

The perfect surfing wave?

Boscombe developed a feature to do that a few years ago...

I think they may also have bought some magic beans...

Listen to the podcast, its really interesting and the fluid dynamics dude from one of the Californian unis likens it to mining because of the heavy industrial machinery involved! 

You're obviously not familiar with Boscombe's much vaunted surfing feature...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boscombe_Surf_Reef

Well... the few fridges  I've climbed don't really compare to the real thing... But they can be good for mileage (e.g. not much possibility to ice climb in NL).

Similar things can be prolly said about these constructed waves... perhaps they do not give the same experience, but good for mileage (akin to your indoor wall ideology).

But this one from a few years back seems interesting, especially surfing next to Hanasaari powerplant...
http://artwavesurf.com/

As someone who surfs as well, I kind of see it the other way around.

While climbing gyms are a downgraded (imo) version of outdoor climbing, Kelly’s wave pool is a more perfect version of a wave. Other than Skeleton Bay on a reaaaaaally good day, nature just doesn’t create waves that perfect.

As so much of surfing can be about chasing conditions and always looking for the best formed wave to ride, having a machine that makes that is pretty amazing. It doesn’t have the soul and raw power of the ocean, but it’s still incredible.

That being said, like climbing, I doubt that anyone who learned surfing in the ocean (or climbing outdoors) will replace that entirely with artificial waves or climbing gyms. 

Good podcast. I love surfing, but as much as it's the places, the people, the physical challenges and sometimes fear that give you the memories, it's actually the waves that make you do it. The north Wales wavepool sounds fun, from the fair few surfers I know who have been, but the Kelly one looks a level up again. There's no way I could resist. (Fwiw one of the best right handers I know is man-made, breaking metres from an international shipping lane over shopping trolleys and syringes. Those who know will know where I mean but please don't say. When it's working -rare- the view or how it came to exist are not really issues.) 

A closer analogy would be trail centres' berm/jump/northshore and repeat vs natural trails where youdy ride hours to find similar, but even doesn't quite capture it. 

Anyway, the final phonecall in the podcast sums up how I think I'd find it: crack cocaine. 

Only meant to post to recommend William Finnegan(NYker staffer in the podcast's) Barbarian Days as a superb read.

I might read it as I love his journalism. Is there a climbing journalist who has won a Pulitzer?! 

It's written for non-surfers - climbers will recognise the singlemindedness and then living a split life. He's just a really good writer.

Interesting discussion, will have to listen to the podcast. In the meantime I can second the recommendation for Barbarian Days which is a fantastic book.

I used the wall in Kinlochleven fairly regularly on my old club Easter trips. Either in terrible weather or when there was no ice apart from the summit of the Ben. I found it very useful for building skills and it improved my confidence outdoors quite a bit.

Having surfed a similar wave at Surf Snowdonia and see Kelly's wave, I think there is a massive difference between artificial surf and climbing. A key experience to a surfer in the shape of the wave and Kelly's wave has several and it is repeatable. You are also riding a man-made, but essentially nature wave. The pay per ride means that when you are surfing artificial waves there is no one dropping in on you, it is your wave each time. 

My experience as surf snowdonia, was one of initial frustration but as soon as I caught the first wave, I waisted about one session perfecting this. After that each wave was among the best I have surfed. This is due to the very fickle nature of the 'perfect conditions' you need to make really good surf. Combine that with the number of people trying to catch those same waves in the sea, then artificial surfing has its appeals.

Whereas artificial climbing seem to avoid much of the experience. Route being set on indoor wall, means degrees of freedom through which we can express ourselves are limited. Even on indoor ice the routes get worked out and it is often simple hooking. Part of climbing is the environment was get to be in.

Arguably you could say the same about surf and the natural environment. However the movement on artificial surf is really good, almost a perfect point break. You also get to practice your frontside and backside surfing during a session. Allowing you to really hone technique.

I think that you can argue that climbing walls have help push climbing levels up and I happen to find indoor climbing for training fun, but my favourite part of indoor climbing is the gymnastic and athlete boulder problems. I prefer to climb on real rock outside but indoor climbing is something of a dirty pleasure.

For me the cross over between artificial surf and climbing are different. Although due to the price £40+ a hour for a surf means I save it for when I have some money. Whereas indoor climbing is something I could not live without over the winter.