UKC

Top marks to the team from Liverpool  today ... loud ..foul mouthed ... spliffs in abundance ...smoke drifting along the crag and gardens ...just brilliant 

Preston under tight lockdown as well.

https://www.preston.gov.uk/article/2915/FAQ-on-local-restrictions-what-you-...

I was there today and didn't see anything too objectionable - but left pretty early (I was the person being pathetic at Big Marine... I plead blazing sunshine).  As I was leaving, at around 14:30 hrs, a crowded car load of yoofs arrived - was that them?

That sounds like a nice old fashioned day at the crag

Not sure what that means ? Access is sensitive at this very important crag as gardens back on to it , this level of antisocial behaviour really threatens the future of climbing here .

Did you engage with the offenders suggesting that their behaviour may affect access or did you choose to complain on here instead? 

Does it? 

I totally agree with you that antisocial behaviour should be called out. But is it not owned by the BMC? 

Read more of num num's posts, they're almost always somewhat tongue in cheek.

He does tongue up Bojo's rear too.

What difference does that make?

I suspect that if a landowner gets complaints about antisocial behaviour on their land, from neighbouring residents (or holiday letters), they are obliged to do something.

Reading between the lines, I think what's being said is that If it's owned by the BMC then access can hardly be revoked?

Worst that can happen is the gardeners call the police about the drug taking. 

If there’s a next time then perhaps just have a conversation with them directly about what you perceive to be problematic behaviour. There seems to be little to gain by posting on the UKC forum. Further, I rarely visit a busy crag where weed isn’t being smoked, and whilst it’s not my thing, it’s ubiquitous in the climbing community. I hear boules is pretty straight edge though. 

Normal behaviour for Scousers 😉

I don't know why people like you and Presley Whippet obsess over this one (it always comes up). There's a few reasons why someone might not fancy a conversation at a given time.

If it was thoughtless behaviour it might make them think, and others tempted to do similar might think. If they're selfish dicks, ok they won't take any notice.... but then it's probably best there wasn't a convo.

Not really.... I'd know I used to be really keen. On most occasions a discreet spliff isn't going to bother anyone... but on BMC owned land next to houses, that's feckin stupid.

Yeah that's definitely it, modern climbing is just too edgy for the likes of Micheal Johnson! 😂😂

WHAT!?!  You need to get out more.

Have you been Longridge ? The garden fences are 4 metres from the crag Sunday was still and warm .The houses had there windows open and some kids out playing .My perceived problematic behaviour was endless loud swearing ..around 4 people smoking spliffs ...literally clouds of smoke that I could still smell back at the car . Add to that some parents at the crag with their kids and I think my perception is spot on . I wasn't about to make a bad situation worse by getting into an argument with 8 or so twenty somethings .I see every point in highlighting it here in the hope it raises a bit of awareness despite the drivel I get in response .

I thought the match with Arsenal wasn't until later today

Not really an obsession, more an understanding of behaviours. 

Folk are more likely to react in a positive manner to a gentle face to face explanation than a public shaming on a forum they may not use.

I haven't been to Craigy since it was all fields, so I don't know how intrusive on the neighbours climbing is or how intrusive the neighbours are on the climbing. 

You remind me of that clip from the Simpsons

"somebody think of the CHILDREN!" 

Have you done a lot of this in your time?

Mr Johnston you are a stalwart of the community. You should receive the MBE for services to climbing. I'm amazed you are still alive. The naysayers on this Internet site haven't a clue about the gentlemen they are dealing with. Well done high lighting such an incredulous event. 

Cheers Jim getting grief from the anonymous little people is part of the territory .

For your sanitys sake, if it's anything like it was when Craigy was all fields, don't go to Denham. I fear you may implode. 

A shared use venue, enjoyed by climbers, abseiling scouts, glue sniffers, motocross bikes, joy riders, graffiti artists and doggers.

Very good ...not in anyones garden though  Just what is your point  ?

Yes I frequently climb at Longridge, and so I’m fully aware of the proximity of the rental cottages. 

You appear to have taken my use of the word ‘perceived’ as a sign that I approve of their actions. Rather I was neither condoning or condemning their behaviour. My inclusion of that word was to highlight that whilst you obviously perceived their behaviour to be problematic they themselves did not. In which case a polite word to let them know that smoking and swearing on the crag could lead to access problems, or that it may not be appropriate to smoke around children might have changed their behaviour. As it stands they will only continue in the same manner totally unaware of your opinion. Polite dialogue leads to solutions, which from the combative tone of your initial post, subsequent responses, and assertion that anyone who questions the efficacy of your rant is spouting drivel, is something you seem unfamiliar with. Ironically in my experience a few tokes on a spliff will really chill you out and broaden your perspective. 

Is it coincidence that you registered on UKC today and your only contributions thus far are two posts defending problematic behaviour at a particular crag?

As stated above, I’m not defending anyone, rather I’m questioning the efficacy of the OP’s response in changing peoples behaviours. 
I climb at Longridge a lot and was sent a screenshot of the initial post. Alas I was sport climbing near Llysfaen on Sunday. No weed and minimal swearing to be had. 

You saw the screenshot and was so incensed by the OP's post that you felt the need to register on UKC and contribute posts essentially defending the behaviour highlighted?
You might not be one of the people there on the day in question, but you certainly seem to be trying to find ways to excuse that behaviour by blaming the OP for not talking to the alleged transgressors, etc.

I always preferred Bojos rusty bullet hole to Jezzers. It was much more savoury and meaty.

Nowhere have I defended anyone’s actions. You’ve misread my intent. Nor am I ’incensed’. The anger in this forum was evident from the outset but it isn’t coming from me.

I climb at Longridge, I’m aware of the BMC guidelines on good conduct, some people are not. The climbing community is multifaceted and so it’s an inevitability that when these disparate groups come together at crags there will be conflicting opinions on appropriate behaviour. Sometimes it’s necessary to quietly tolerate others, sometimes when it crosses a line it’s useful to have a word. 

My point was always that it’s futile to rant on a forum. It offers no solutions. Do you not think dialogue between different groups of climbers, or a friendly word is more likely to alter behaviours and result in more harmonious crags?

I agree that some people may feel intimidated and not want to approach other climbers, in which case posting on here and suggesting solutions or asking for help might be more useful. We know the climbing community is for the most part friendly and interconnected, and asking others in the community who use the crag  if they know the group or if they would remind other climbers of the guidelines could be a better option. Blind anger hurts no one but the OP. 

It's not futile at all. Michael has succeeded in drawing at least two bell ends out so we now know how to engage with them in future threads.

Nice one Mick.

E

I would say not to approach the other climbers as you may get physically threatened, and I mean fisticuffs threatened, and its unlikely you will be able to maintain social distancing.

The behaviour sounds anti social by any standards.

If Mick is the Mick I think he is, its perhaps for the good he did not approach them as it could have ended badly, for the scouscers

Its surprising on these threads that the BMC do not actually put in a statement, of how this situation is best handled, as people are actually trying to support the work the BMC is doing.

What you may not get is there is a sub text here as some of the posters on here actually know each other and some are or were IIRC on the BMC area committee.

It sounds like the Scouscers acted like gits.

When these clearly enlightened climbers go to the crag to get stoned, do they have a driver who doesn’t participate in getting high. Or do they not care about driving intoxicated as well. 
You wonder what the point is as if they got up any problems, they wouldn’t count due to the use of performance enhancing drugs.

Agree. While access may well be safe here, imagine the objections raised next time the BMC wants to step in and purchase.  The last thing the climbing community needs is a reputation for being foul mouthed dope heads.

Anyone who slightly disagrees with you is a bell end? That’s your gambit? 

It’s painfully evident that you don’t know how to engage with people at all, seeing as though you’re incapable of entering into any basic discussion without immediately acting like a petulant schoolboy. 

What makes you assume people would be so quick to violence?

Ay, calm down calm down.

If we’re taking that as the case, which it might well be, then how has the original post done anything to help? 
No behaviour has changed, because those involved are blissfully unaware. 

Experience.

Basically people do not like being told what to do or have their behaviour criticised in anyway. Its extremely difficult to do, and if you get your tone slightly wrong the foul mouthed drug smoker can quickly feel wronged and it can degenerate into a childish argument.

Also people have different views, another sub text on this thread is that climbing is a counter cultural activity and back in the day, youths went to the crag and swore and did dope, so people acting in this way can be seen as representative of these times. Watch the film Valley Uprising to get a sense of it.

To the Scouse gits, this was a ten foot bit of rock in Lancashire in 2020, not Yosemite in the 70s, learn to behave.

If you think smoking a joint makes you edgy then you really, really do need to get out more.

I notice you posted after school hours..

I agree. That much is evident from this thread, but applicable to angry middle aged men as opposed to ‘foul mouthed drug smokers.’ Though I don’t think most people are as instantly combative or as cognitively inflexible as some people on this forum are when spoken to. 

“Youths” still do ‘go to the crag and swear and smoke dope.’ It really is representative of these times. Whether it’s acceptable at a BMC owned crag is debatable but it happens, and without any kind of dialogue suggesting that it shouldn’t, then it will continue to happen. 

How can you be sure that those in question are not users of this forum? Or perhaps you know too well...

I noticed you completely missed my point. The two crying with laughter emojis didn't make you think my words were not intended to be taken literally/too seriously?

I do not understand why the fact its a BMC owned crag is relevant.

If your out of ear shot climbing in a secluded place crack on, do whatever you like so long as you leave no trace, but the moment another person turns up, whatever they are doing, show respect. 

I really do not understand why the BMC do not respond to these threads, as its an opportunity to advise on how to handle these situations.

You are either deliberately or stupidly missing the point.  This isn't Stanage but right next to families' back gardens.

Is it really representative of these times, most youths I know are heavily into keeping fit and healthy these days.Smoking dope is passe in their eyes, a weakening of the soul, something for idiots who want to destroy their bodies.

Maybe, I saw the two laughing crying emojis and assumed you were ganging up with Chipcashew and were laughing at the OP.

That's how I read the emojis, but to be fair I'm too old to understand emojis so I may have read it wrong!

I have been a bit provocative in some of my reply above because I see some very mixed messages. 

Climbing is by and large an adult pass time, in this way it is similar to a pub, you bring your kids at your risk of them experiencing adult behaviour such as swearing. 

Rightly or wrongly, expletives are part of climbing, stand underneath anyone having a hard time and you will hear it. Everyday occurrence at a crag.

Dope smoking is similar in some areas, Spain for example. 

What would the response of the op be if he experienced the householders partying in their back garden with music, language and dope whilst he was climbing?

I suspect there is some regional stereotyping here too. Geordie accents can make the nastiest people sound lovely, whereas the harsh sounds of a scouse accent can make the nicest of folk appear aggressive and unapproachable.

The crag behaviour witnessed clearly wasn't the best but also was not the worst, live and let live. 

I find it difficult to see the landowner removing climbing access when "we" are the land owner. 

You are correct. I was all eight of the scouse lads. I am hive. I am collective. Marijuana smoke and the angry outbursts of old men are my sustenance. I grow in number. Soon you will all be assimilated into ChipCashew. We will be one. There will be peace. 

That is because access to Longridge even though its owned by the BMC has been fought over for a long time. It relies on a recognition of reasonable behaviour so as not to antagonise locals. Just like in alot of other crags.

So you are seeing alot of older locals up in arms who know/have to manage  the consequences for access.These people are involved in protracted discussions with the home owners who back onto longridge.

Its not a crag with open access to the countryside all round.Best analogy is with a cricket field surrounded by glass houses with families in them.

Which is precisely why I said it’s debatable if that kind of behaviour is acceptable.

I am an older ex local, I know and appreciate the work that was done to secure the crag. 

Currently the BMC is fairly adept at shooting itself in the foot but I really cannot see it taking the almost suicidal step of banning climbing from a crag it owns whilst campaign g for access elsewhere. 

Well here's what the landowner says about it (bullet pointed code of conduct).

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/View.aspx?id=797

There's also some photos of the situation, as despite clear descriptions from other posters, you still claimed ignorance of that. Maybe you are not as 'understanding' as you think you are.

If none of that makes an impact bear in mind that the parking is road side, the local authority could easily put a stop to that.

  youtube.com/watch?v=EIhFwLjsQug&

Couldn't find the blind date one..

The 'Liverpudlians' sound like they were less than sensitive to the crag environment and, as a person who tries mostly not annoy other people, I agree with your sentiments. However, as an actual Liverpudlian myself I'd really appreciate it if you didn't actually identify these obnoxious prats as such. Why was it necessary to inform us of their possible origin? If they'd spoken with a more general Northern accent would you have asked them which particular drug-crazed, shady, down-at-heel hell hole they escaped from? Some other posters have also used the lazy terms 'Scouse git' or Scouser as, of course, everyone knows that we're all just criminals out on day release from HM's pleasure. What if the guys had been black or Asian or disabled?

And lastly, they could have been from Birkenhead or Skelmersdale in which case they really are pathetic.

Sorry, I forgot they could have been from Skem, apologies.
 They is just gits.

I love Liverpool and lots of its inhabitants yeah probably no need to mention that ....also mostly nice lads I imagine just some of the behaviour made me cringe ..

One more of the angry old men, and semi-literates of climbing revealing your real prejudices. In light of this, you have been deemed inferior, and thus unfit to join the collective. Never shall you meld with ChipCashew and experience the perpetual orgasmic oneness of the whole. 

Wear a helmet. Avoid ground falls. Adult learning classes are available. 

Really, in nearly 30 years of climbing, I can only think of a couple of occasions where I have notice weed being smoked and that includes when climbing with people that I am aware like to partake.

Given that I can get a whiff of weed a dozen or more times a day just walking down the street, it doesn’t seem very ubiquitous in climbing.

I have to agree there, certainly for the UK, it happens but is rare. Abroad is different. 

Maybe I am going to the right/wrong crags. 

I was bouldering at Helsby recently and a bunch of shirtless scousers were giving it large, a few of them smoking. "Here we go", I thought and edged into my shell. We got chatting and they turned out to be top fellas just a bit, you know, rough. I showed them who was boss by pointing out some awkward eliminates. That showed em.

Longridge is a unique place, going back way further than those houses, but is no place for bellendery.

Yeah I agree. The multi spliffs on this occasion could be a covid thing (one each). It strikes me that sharing spliffs is a really effective way of transmitting the virus.

I keep scrolling up and down the thread looking for evidence of Keith hal's age or his anger and can't find any. The same applies to his literacy level. As for prejudice, are you referring to the Harry Enfield link?

I haven't read through the thread since it was at about ten replies, so apologies if this has been covered...

Just playing Devil's advocate: if there was a group at the crag smoking potent pipe tobacco to the same extent, would it be an issue (ignoring the other antisocial behaviour)? I've never really understood the issue people have with weed smelling; plenty of other things that are acceptable to society absolutely stink. Having an issue with smoking cannabis based on the smell alone seems like a weak argument. Or is it a case of 'I can smell someone doing something illegal, therefore I must be outraged no matter the lack of impact the illegal act actually has on me'?

I'm an ex-weed smoker, support decriminalisation and don't think it's particularly harmful for adults. I do think there's a fair amount of evidence that it's use is damaging for kids in a variety of ways and I wouldn't much want my kids  exposed to it, purely on the grounds that it normalises the use of something I consider as potentially harmful for them.

Groups of lads being loud, boorish, sweary and drugged up at the crag isn't high up my list of social concerns, but it's certainly enough to spoil a few hours of precious down time with my kids.

Oh I agree entirely: I'm not condoning their overall behaviour. My question is to those who object to weed on the basis that they can smell it, which is what I took from the OP when they said 'spliffs in abundance ...smoke drifting along the crag and gardens'.

If a peaceful bookworm were sat at the crag enjoying a spliff alongside their copy of Finnegan's Wake, would it still be a problem? And if so, why?

I did address that already in my reply to you. I don't want its use normalised around my kids.

It's the 'gardens' bit. There's not many crags so close to where people live  (or holiday), and CYL must be the closest. That's it.

The whole thread is a masterpiece of sanctimony, self righteousness, prejudice and assumption so I suspect it might be

I can stand this no longer . Was just about respect for other people .Who do you think I am ffs Bill Clinton ? 

No, there's a few people ignoring the important detail so they can pick an argument.

I'll try again.... what is the notable thing about this crag?

https://images.app.goo.gl/DwpKGiFGmcX2DgWH7

Two things are notable about the crag, it’s steep, and the traverse in its entirety is a notable challenge.

If you say so. Except you make the complaint on behalf of others who may or may not have been too troubled. So, if you are entirely honest with yourself, I think you might find it was the challenge to your own set of values that led to your OP and in doing so you fell into the trap of sanctimony, self righteousness, prejudice and assumption.

To be honest, if someone was sat at the crag smoking a spliff and reading Finnegan's Wake I'd probably be more incensed by the ostentatious display of pretentiousness than the weed. Surely no one has ever read that dirge fest for pleasure?

And in this short and amusing reply you have entirely made the point.

There is reasonable amount of evidence that it is significant cause of Psychosis in adults. Unfortunately it is a lottery in who it will effect.

From Liverpool? 

Poor behaviour isn't  geographical there are prick's the length and breath 

of the shittish isle's.

Do not tarnish people from particular area's.

You manc tw*t  oops typo error.

Very hard to get good quality studies, but what I've read indicates possible adverse longterm neurological impacts up to around 25.

Without being overly pedantic adulthood starts at 18. So up to 25 would suggest it’s effecting adults as well.

I was agreeing with you but as far as I'm concerned kids need protecting, adults can make their own choices.

Yes especially the adults giving us dislikes for pointing out cannabis is mental health risk. I guess that’s why it’s called dope.