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Got inspired by the winter thread. The ones that stick out from my logbook are:
The File (VS 4c)
Boot Crack (HVS 5a)
But what others are there? (might make a good ticklist for the masochists!)
Post edited at 12:03
In reply to SenzuBean:
I'm wondering whether Desperation (E1 6a) might be one having just had a go myself. or maybe its just more poor technique
I'm wondering whether Desperation (E1 6a) might be one having just had a go myself. or maybe its just more poor technique
2
In reply to islandlynx:
I think that counts! A proper sandbag alright.
> I'm wondering whether Desperation (E1 6a) might be one having just had a go myself. or maybe its just more poor technique
I think that counts! A proper sandbag alright.
In reply to SenzuBean:
Something eyecatching, safe, accessibly graded, easy access, in the Peak, maybe with a bit of a crux would be my bet.
Ignoring routes with a very high fail ratio as a result of low sample size: Sloth, FBD, Long Tall Sally, something like that.
jk
Something eyecatching, safe, accessibly graded, easy access, in the Peak, maybe with a bit of a crux would be my bet.
Ignoring routes with a very high fail ratio as a result of low sample size: Sloth, FBD, Long Tall Sally, something like that.
jk
In reply to jkarran:
The Sloth (combined 6.8%) and Long Tall Sally (combined 7.4%) - versus around 15% combined each for the 3 others so far. They actually don't fare too badly numbers wise.
Flying Buttress Direct about 12% combined.
> Something eyecatching, safe, accessibly graded, easy access, in the Peak, maybe with a bit of a crux would be my bet.
> Ignoring routes with a very high fail ratio as a result of low sample size: Sloth, FBD, Long Tall Sally, something like that.
> jk
The Sloth (combined 6.8%) and Long Tall Sally (combined 7.4%) - versus around 15% combined each for the 3 others so far. They actually don't fare too badly numbers wise.
Flying Buttress Direct about 12% combined.
Post edited at 12:15
In reply to SenzuBean:
Three suspects that immediately sprang to mind are
The Sloth, Flying Buttress Direct and Chequers Crack
A quick glance seems to point at FBD having the most dnfs and CC most dogged.
Three suspects that immediately sprang to mind are
The Sloth, Flying Buttress Direct and Chequers Crack
A quick glance seems to point at FBD having the most dnfs and CC most dogged.
In reply to jkarran:
Quietus (E2 5c) takes the cake so far (30% combined!).
The Rasp (E2 5b) also up there (22%).
Edit: The Vice (E1 5b) with 32% combined.
The Overhanging Crack (E2 5c) with 43%(!) combined.
Quietus (E2 5c) takes the cake so far (30% combined!).
The Rasp (E2 5b) also up there (22%).
Edit: The Vice (E1 5b) with 32% combined.
The Overhanging Crack (E2 5c) with 43%(!) combined.
Post edited at 12:23
In reply to Hat Dude:
Well that's one reason I made this topic - Sloth doesn't seem to actually have been as fierce as its reputation would suggest. Chequers Crack (HVS 5c) (combined 21%) is up there though.
> Three suspects that immediately sprang to mind are
> The Sloth, Flying Buttress Direct and Chequers Crack
> A quick glance seems to point at FBD having the most dnfs and CC most dogged.
Well that's one reason I made this topic - Sloth doesn't seem to actually have been as fierce as its reputation would suggest. Chequers Crack (HVS 5c) (combined 21%) is up there though.
Post edited at 12:16
In reply to SenzuBean:
We had a long thread about this last year....
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=623096
A few that were up there:
Gates of Mordor (E3 5c)
The Toy (E1 5c)
Cockblock (E5 6b)
We had a long thread about this last year....
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=623096
A few that were up there:
Gates of Mordor (E3 5c)
The Toy (E1 5c)
Cockblock (E5 6b)
In reply to JR:
Ah cheers. I did actually search (I always search before posting) - but I used 'dnf' and 'dogged' as search terms, so didn't find that thread.
> We had a long thread about this last year....
> A few that were up there:
> Gates of Mordor (E3 5c) (combined 28%)
> The Toy (E1 5c) (combined 26%)
> Cockblock (E5 6b) (combined 15%)
Ah cheers. I did actually search (I always search before posting) - but I used 'dnf' and 'dogged' as search terms, so didn't find that thread.
Post edited at 12:19
In reply to SenzuBean:
Are a fairly large propertion of these dnf/dogged route stats the result of folk punching above their weight in the first place?
In which case we possibly need to add HAUP (Had An Unrealistic Punt) alongside DNF
> Got inspired by the winter thread. The ones that stick out from my logbook are:
> But what others are there? (might make a good ticklist for the masochists!)
Are a fairly large propertion of these dnf/dogged route stats the result of folk punching above their weight in the first place?
In which case we possibly need to add HAUP (Had An Unrealistic Punt) alongside DNF
6
In reply to Goucho:
There'd be a fair few in my logbook!
> In which case we possibly need to add HAUP (Had An Unrealistic Punt) alongside DNF
There'd be a fair few in my logbook!
1
In reply to SenzuBean:
Dogged 13, DNF 12 and 'climbed' 16. I would suggest a fair few of those climbs were old school 'ground up' logs but I bet one or two were french free...
51% failure rate.
Charming Crack (E2 5c)
Dogged 13, DNF 12 and 'climbed' 16. I would suggest a fair few of those climbs were old school 'ground up' logs but I bet one or two were french free...
51% failure rate.
Charming Crack (E2 5c)
Post edited at 14:42
1
1
In reply to SenzuBean:
Ses also these threads
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=623096&v=1#x8116402
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=536908&v=1#x7200961
Ses also these threads
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=623096&v=1#x8116402
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=536908&v=1#x7200961
In reply to Offwidth:
Okay cool. I'll try and make a ticklist later on with the worst of them.
I'm thinking a nice descriptive name, something like "Good places to go dogging".
> Ses also these threads
Okay cool. I'll try and make a ticklist later on with the worst of them.
I'm thinking a nice descriptive name, something like "Good places to go dogging".
Post edited at 19:16
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In reply to SenzuBean:
It would be nice to know the climb that had literally been failed on most as well rather than just the relative high failures too,I think. For example, charming crack is clearly grim from below so most people won't be foolish enough to bother trying (I was foolish, however).
Does the sloth have a difficult reputation? I thought it just looks obviously impressive. I'm not surprised most people succeed in the onsight.
Also, Desperation is an interesting one. The first time I got on it I gave such a pathetic attempt that I may not have even logged it (perhaps because I didn't even place any gear, which is past the crux). Maybe other people don't either in such circs.
It would be nice to know the climb that had literally been failed on most as well rather than just the relative high failures too,I think. For example, charming crack is clearly grim from below so most people won't be foolish enough to bother trying (I was foolish, however).
Does the sloth have a difficult reputation? I thought it just looks obviously impressive. I'm not surprised most people succeed in the onsight.
Also, Desperation is an interesting one. The first time I got on it I gave such a pathetic attempt that I may not have even logged it (perhaps because I didn't even place any gear, which is past the crux). Maybe other people don't either in such circs.
In reply to Cake:
It does apparently: http://www.libbypeterclimbing.co.uk/gradetourpdfs/hvs.pdf
"Climbers tend not to linger for long in the HVS bracket as it can be found to be a notoriously mean grade (especially
the 5b). Everyone knows of a sandbag HVS, just think of Sloth at the Roaches, an outrageous horizontal roof into a
wide jamming crack, which most climbers find umpteen reasons to avoid until they’re steady on E2!"
> Does the sloth have a difficult reputation? I thought it just looks obviously impressive. I'm not surprised most people succeed in the onsight.
It does apparently: http://www.libbypeterclimbing.co.uk/gradetourpdfs/hvs.pdf
"Climbers tend not to linger for long in the HVS bracket as it can be found to be a notoriously mean grade (especially
the 5b). Everyone knows of a sandbag HVS, just think of Sloth at the Roaches, an outrageous horizontal roof into a
wide jamming crack, which most climbers find umpteen reasons to avoid until they’re steady on E2!"
In reply to SenzuBean:
Perhaps I'm wrong then. It didn't feel hard for hvs to me and I certainly wasn't a steady E2 leader when I did it onsight.
Definitely had to psyche up before the launch though!
Perhaps I'm wrong then. It didn't feel hard for hvs to me and I certainly wasn't a steady E2 leader when I did it onsight.
Definitely had to psyche up before the launch though!
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In reply to SenzuBean:
I honestly don't think The Sloth is sandbag territory. Having the balls to get on it is the crux, thankfully the climbing is much easier than it looks.
I honestly don't think The Sloth is sandbag territory. Having the balls to get on it is the crux, thankfully the climbing is much easier than it looks.
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In reply to SenzuBean:
The Nose. The rumour is that 2/3 fail on day one but watching would suggest that that's higher now a days.
The Nose. The rumour is that 2/3 fail on day one but watching would suggest that that's higher now a days.
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In reply to SenzuBean:
Haven't done sloth, but found both matinee and the mincer to be sandbags at hvs at the roaches.
> It does apparently:
> the 5b). Everyone knows of a sandbag HVS, just think of Sloth at the Roaches, an outrageous horizontal roof into a
> wide jamming crack, which most climbers find umpteen reasons to avoid until they’re steady on E2!"
Haven't done sloth, but found both matinee and the mincer to be sandbags at hvs at the roaches.
1
In reply to SenzuBean:
It always seems that left wall takes its share of tumbles anytime I'm up there
It always seems that left wall takes its share of tumbles anytime I'm up there
In reply to SenzuBean:
A list would be good even if the joke is an old one.. for instance...
Doggers' Paradise (E4 6a)
A list would be good even if the joke is an old one.. for instance...
Doggers' Paradise (E4 6a)
1
In reply to GrahamD:
It's an odd one because it isn't a hard E2 by any means, the climbing is mostly straightforward (although I got stuck for a bit on the hard move low down). Clearly people get on it when they're simply not good enough (maybe they've been fooled into thinking that they're competent at E1 and ready to move up by the outrageously soft Gates).
> It always seems that left wall takes its share of tumbles anytime I'm up there
It's an odd one because it isn't a hard E2 by any means, the climbing is mostly straightforward (although I got stuck for a bit on the hard move low down). Clearly people get on it when they're simply not good enough (maybe they've been fooled into thinking that they're competent at E1 and ready to move up by the outrageously soft Gates).
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Name a classic softish-for-the-grade popular route that doesn't get loads of aspirants. Anything like Left Wall will defeat many for stamina... at least the falls are usually not as bad as some of the inexperienced E1 leader falls are on say Arrow Route.
Name a classic softish-for-the-grade popular route that doesn't get loads of aspirants. Anything like Left Wall will defeat many for stamina... at least the falls are usually not as bad as some of the inexperienced E1 leader falls are on say Arrow Route.
Post edited at 10:15
In reply to SenzuBean:
I know several people who have gone up to the pedestal intending to do Sloth... and then thought better of it and done the Pedestal Route instead (a number of times each). Committing to Sloth is the hard part, especially as you have a fantastic rest and opportunity to change your route just before the crux. Surely those attempts would be marked as successful repeats of the Pedestal Route, rather than failures on Sloth?
I know several people who have gone up to the pedestal intending to do Sloth... and then thought better of it and done the Pedestal Route instead (a number of times each). Committing to Sloth is the hard part, especially as you have a fantastic rest and opportunity to change your route just before the crux. Surely those attempts would be marked as successful repeats of the Pedestal Route, rather than failures on Sloth?
1
In reply to whenry:
Definitely - but since it's impossible to actually know for sure, the best we can hope for is to rely on the stats we do have.
I suspect people are more likely to report DNF/dogged when the route was so absolutely brutal that they don't feel ashamed for failing on it - in other words, a bias whereby people who DNF/dog but account it to their own failings (rather than the route being a mega sandbag) don't report as often. I can't think of a method to account for these though - so will just have to accept it
I'm planning on knocking up a little python script to create the list of "most failed-on routes" by feeding it climbIds and potentially links to other ticklists/crags.
> I know several people who have gone up to the pedestal intending to do Sloth... and then thought better of it and done the Pedestal Route instead (a number of times each). Committing to Sloth is the hard part, especially as you have a fantastic rest and opportunity to change your route just before the crux. Surely those attempts would be marked as successful repeats of the Pedestal Route, rather than failures on Sloth?
Definitely - but since it's impossible to actually know for sure, the best we can hope for is to rely on the stats we do have.
I suspect people are more likely to report DNF/dogged when the route was so absolutely brutal that they don't feel ashamed for failing on it - in other words, a bias whereby people who DNF/dog but account it to their own failings (rather than the route being a mega sandbag) don't report as often. I can't think of a method to account for these though - so will just have to accept it
I'm planning on knocking up a little python script to create the list of "most failed-on routes" by feeding it climbIds and potentially links to other ticklists/crags.
1
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Also I think people are willing to give it a go because it is so obviously well protected.
Also I think people are willing to give it a go because it is so obviously well protected.
1
In reply to timjones:
whoah - 43% failure rate. Green Crack (VS 5a)
> Green crack at Ramshaw stands out in my mind as having a high failure rate.
whoah - 43% failure rate. Green Crack (VS 5a)
In reply to SenzuBean:
I have to confess that I account for 1 DNF and 1 dog. Next time I'll manage it clean
> whoah - 43% failure rate. Green Crack (VS 5a)
I have to confess that I account for 1 DNF and 1 dog. Next time I'll manage it clean
1
In reply to SenzuBean:
Isn't that the one that jcm set off to solo onsight, thinking that it looked ok and that at VS it should be fine?
> ... whoah - 43% failure rate. Green Crack (VS 5a)
Isn't that the one that jcm set off to solo onsight, thinking that it looked ok and that at VS it should be fine?
In reply to SenzuBean:
Onto at Bamford seems to have a very large number of fails. Seems to shut down people it really shouldn't at the grade.
Onto at Bamford seems to have a very large number of fails. Seems to shut down people it really shouldn't at the grade.
In reply to SenzuBean:
Minion's Way, HVS, Brimham must be up there Minion's Way (HVS 5c)
The stat's aren't that impressive with 10% dogged/DNF but I suspect the nasty reality lurks in the 41% with no style set and the comments, for example: Logged as O/S "Not really o/s - took quite a few goes to work out the start and then did it ok(ish!)"
Or maybe I'm still sore about how many times this shut me down and spat me out over the years
jk
Minion's Way, HVS, Brimham must be up there Minion's Way (HVS 5c)
The stat's aren't that impressive with 10% dogged/DNF but I suspect the nasty reality lurks in the 41% with no style set and the comments, for example: Logged as O/S "Not really o/s - took quite a few goes to work out the start and then did it ok(ish!)"
Or maybe I'm still sore about how many times this shut me down and spat me out over the years
jk
In reply to SenzuBean:
At a guess, the grim mantle-shelf routes like Stormbringer at Gardoms and King Kong at Stanage likely see their fair share of unsuccessful applicants.
At a guess, the grim mantle-shelf routes like Stormbringer at Gardoms and King Kong at Stanage likely see their fair share of unsuccessful applicants.
In reply to ehole:
With the modern power levels visible indoors these routes should be easy for the grade. I nearly got King Kong clean seconding a talented pal and I'm just an overweight VS punter.
With the modern power levels visible indoors these routes should be easy for the grade. I nearly got King Kong clean seconding a talented pal and I'm just an overweight VS punter.
In reply to SenzuBean:
The Overhanging Crack (E2 5c)#overview
I've still got the scars from this route
The Overhanging Crack (E2 5c)#overview
I've still got the scars from this route
In reply to Andy Hardy:
Got spat out of the top of that crack many years ago but did manage this
The Unprintable (E1 5b)
although looking at logbooks seems to have a high failure rate.
Both very alluring climbs/lines, so is it the ability of a climb to tempt the unwary that causes the high failure rate?
Cheers Chris
Got spat out of the top of that crack many years ago but did manage this
The Unprintable (E1 5b)
although looking at logbooks seems to have a high failure rate.
Both very alluring climbs/lines, so is it the ability of a climb to tempt the unwary that causes the high failure rate?
Cheers Chris
In reply to Dervey:
Only 6% failure rate - positively simple compared to some of the others listed so far
> At shepherds.
Only 6% failure rate - positively simple compared to some of the others listed so far
In reply to Chris Ebbutt:
One if the most unenjoyable routes on grit, perfect for people who enjoy root canal surgery without an anaesthetic.
Dangler, Tippler & Censor are all easier - and 100 times better.
> Got spat out of the top of that crack many years ago but did manage this
> although looking at logbooks seems to have a high failure rate.
One if the most unenjoyable routes on grit, perfect for people who enjoy root canal surgery without an anaesthetic.
Dangler, Tippler & Censor are all easier - and 100 times better.
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In reply to SenzuBean:
....from the older thread, this:
Mark of the Beast (7c)
Has at least 10 as many 'dnf's as all the other styles together!
Special case, ...and admittedly largely by one tenacious tryer!
....from the older thread, this:
Mark of the Beast (7c)
Has at least 10 as many 'dnf's as all the other styles together!
Special case, ...and admittedly largely by one tenacious tryer!
In reply to SenzuBean:
That's what the logbooks say. Every time I've seen someone in it they've been dogging/aiding/flailing wildly. (I got it OS by the skin of my teeth)
That's what the logbooks say. Every time I've seen someone in it they've been dogging/aiding/flailing wildly. (I got it OS by the skin of my teeth)
1
In reply to SenzuBean:
I've had eight attempts at the crux of the Sloth and still can't do it. Must learn to jam sometime.
I've had eight attempts at the crux of the Sloth and still can't do it. Must learn to jam sometime.
In reply to jonnie3430:
There were at least two failures on the Mincer this weekend. In addition to my pathetic attempts to lead the Sloth, I also witnessed a number of seconds bailing on the roof. I put it down to Early Season Syndrome, that and the Roaches being Sandbag City.
There were at least two failures on the Mincer this weekend. In addition to my pathetic attempts to lead the Sloth, I also witnessed a number of seconds bailing on the roof. I put it down to Early Season Syndrome, that and the Roaches being Sandbag City.
1
In reply to SenzuBean: Pod Crack (E1 6a) is an awful sandbag.
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In reply to Peter Metcalfe: Roaches is not full of sandbags but will feel hard for grades compared to eastern grit such as Stanage.
As for Sloth, I used to fail on it frequently (many years ago), get to the lip, big hex in (pre friends), slump on rope. The answer for me was getting fitter and stronger and then it was a cruise.
Beta alert, if you are using the jamming method to get past the lip then don't reach too far, the best jam is not far above the jug-rail but it's enough to make the reach. Jams higher up are rubbish.
As for Sloth, I used to fail on it frequently (many years ago), get to the lip, big hex in (pre friends), slump on rope. The answer for me was getting fitter and stronger and then it was a cruise.
Beta alert, if you are using the jamming method to get past the lip then don't reach too far, the best jam is not far above the jug-rail but it's enough to make the reach. Jams higher up are rubbish.
In reply to rob 528:
That one looks unbelievably terrible! 57% failure rate.
> Pod Crack (E1 6a) is an awful sandbag.
That one looks unbelievably terrible! 57% failure rate.
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