UKC

Names on the rock.

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 Rog Wilko 30 Jul 2018

It is common, but not universal in France and elsewhere to find the names of routes painted on the rock. This can be invaluable if visiting a crag in passing for a route or two without the trouble or expense of buying a guidebook, as long as you've taken the precaution of printing off the relevant page from UKC. It would be helpful if those moderating crags on UKC would advise users as to whether or not these route names exist.

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 Bulls Crack 30 Jul 2018
In reply to Rog Wilko:

By and large they don't exist so you may as well just support the local guidebook/bolt-fund?  

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 Sean_J 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Bulls Crack:

To be honest, I wouldn't spend £30+ on a local guidebook if I was going to climb in an area for just one day with no plans to return. And anybody that says they would is lying

 

What do you refer to when you say "By and large they don't exist"? Plenty of places in France and other countries have route names painted at their bases.

Post edited at 00:57
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 Dandan 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Sean_J:

> To be honest, I wouldn't spend £30+ on a local guidebook if I was going to climb in an area for just one day with no plans to return. And anybody that says they would is lying

I'd buy a guidebook for £30 if I was going to climb in an area for just one day.

I mean, I really like guidebooks so don't need much excuse to purchase one, but I promise I'm not lying.

To the OP, a little note in the crag description wouldn't go amiss I suppose, easy enough to do.

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 GarethSL 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Well, I've updated the info for one of my crags to include this, completely forgot to mention it, but it's useful to know.

Not sure as to why your post got so much negativity for such a simple request.

 Stairclimber 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Rog Wilko:

It seems to be more common to find just a few names marking the starts of routes. Whether this is due to encouraging people to buy the guidebook, economy of effort/material, reduction of environmental impact or recognising that further route development is expected, is open to debate.  

Don't you miss the challenge of locating starts described, for example, 'just left of a bush, a line of holds lead to an obvious small roof etc' ?

 john arran 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Stairclimber:

> It seems to be more common to find just a few names marking the starts of routes. Whether this is due to encouraging people to buy the guidebook, economy of effort/material, reduction of environmental impact or recognising that further route development is expected, is open to debate.  

It seems likely that routes have been equipped by different people and that, because opinions differ as to whether and how to paint route names, one or more equippers have opted to paint only their own routes.

All the routes on the sectors near here that I've developed have names painted. It makes things simpler and can look nice if done carefully. And if a guidebook is worth having, it should give you far more useful info than the route names and locations anyway. Added to that it's hardly ruining a wilderness experience since the crags are literally just a few minutes walk from the back garden.

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 Bulls Crack 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Sean_J:

I was being dim and conflating ukc with UK sport. So admittedly it would obviously make it easier abroad but I don't usually just visit  one crag in an area so generally get the area guide. 

OP Rog Wilko 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Sean_J:

> To be honest, I wouldn't spend £30+ on a local guidebook if I was going to climb in an area for just one day with no plans to return. And anybody that says they would is lying

Agree. Apart from that, you can waste lots of time trying to find the local guide. 

 

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In reply to Rog Wilko:

> Agree. Apart from that, you can waste lots of time trying to find the local guide. 

Or you could plan your trip in advance.

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 Simon Caldwell 31 Jul 2018
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> Or you could plan your trip in advance.

How would that help? Most local European guides aren't available to purchase online, and it's usually far from obvious where to find them locally (and when you find out the chances are that it;s closed).

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OP Rog Wilko 31 Jul 2018
In reply to GarethSL:

> Not sure as to why your post got so much negativity for such a simple request.

Me neither, but this is UKC. Not everything makes sense, and there's always a lot of virtue signalling and adopting the moral high ground, even if these are completely off the point.

Post edited at 13:11
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OP Rog Wilko 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Dandan:

> I'd buy a guidebook for £30 if I was going to climb in an area for just one day.

If this is literally true, you must be one in a hundred. Also, you are fortunate if you have the resources for this (or you don't get out much). I, too buy a lot of guidebooks. My wife says far too many. I am more than happy  to pay a few euros for a cheap local guide if that is available, but often it's not and I don't want to waste hours of my holiday searching them out.  

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OP Rog Wilko 31 Jul 2018
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> Or you could plan your trip in advance.

Why would I want to do that? We like to wander as the fancy (or things like weather) takes us.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

> Why would I want to do that? We like to wander as the fancy (or things like weather) takes us.

Selected guides often cover large areas (North/South Scotland etc) Rockfax??

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 nutme 31 Jul 2018

In Montserrat and other Spanish destinations people leave notes like "28m 5a". I think it's way much better than the name of the route. Something like Frendo Spur is engraved on the inside of my skull, but crags.. It's impressive if am to remember the individual sector name.

OP Rog Wilko 31 Jul 2018
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> Selected guides often cover large areas (North/South Scotland etc) Rockfax??

What's this got to do with the thread?

 jon 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Clearly Rog, he means that a single selected guide to the area you are heading to would probably cover a multitude of crags you are likely to visit. Suisse ouest plaisir, for instance…?

I must say I'd have thought that you of all people with your connections to Leysin would be able to lay your hands on topos for Rocher de Barme and Pierre du Möellé

 Dave Garnett 31 Jul 2018
In reply to john arran:

> All the routes on the sectors near here that I've developed have names painted. It makes things simpler and can look nice if done carefully. 

I agree.  Back in the 80s the route names at Buoux used to be rather beautifully painted in clear but discreet looped italic handwriting.   

 

 Pay Attention 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Mountain areas need better signing.
2,000 feet up Tryfan I have always found it easier to locate the rock scratched "GA" than any easy path leading to the Heather Terrace.  

On Ben Nevis in winter blizzards a pole to indicate the safest descent is the next thing to useless.  A much clearer indicator is needed.  Perhaps a name painted on the rock. 

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 summo 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Pay Attention:

Bottom and top of each route should have a little metal plate with a qr code. You can scan for route description on arrival and on topping out data can auto load to logbook. 

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 nniff 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

> How would that help? Most local European guides aren't available to purchase online, and it's usually far from obvious where to find them locally (and when you find out the chances are that it;s closed).

A lot of them are available from Cordee.  Similarly the maps of the out of the way places that you need to find the crags can be obtained from https://www.themapshop.co.uk/ - if you phone, they'll open a map up for you and help to check that what you need is marked.

Half the fun is working out what's in range of somewhere new anyway.  And yes, I have quite a few guides that have only seen very little use, but all have been worthwhile.  Failing that, find a crag location on line and on google/streetview and then find out how good you are at picking lines that you can do.

The latter approach often takes you to little crags that you'd never otherwise go to.  All you need is a bit of commitment to making something of the day that you have available, and be prepared to wander around forested hillsides a bit.

 John2 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave Garnett:

'I agree'

Well this is UKC so I'm going to disagree. I don't want to see route names on the rock, however beautiful the calligraphy. We should be attempting to leave the natural environment as untouched as possible.

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baron 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> I agree.  Back in the 80s the route names at Buoux used to be rather beautifully painted in clear but discreet looped italic handwriting.   

I believe that there was a short lived attempt at this method of route marking at Malham.

 Trangia 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Pay Attention:

 

> 2,000 feet up Tryfan I have always found it easier to locate the rock scratched "GA" 

Doesn't it look awful? Whist I have to admit that I've used numerous times it to locate Grooved Arete, I'd still rather it wasn't there in the first place. 

 

 

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 Dave Garnett 31 Jul 2018
In reply to John2:

> 'I agree'

> We should be attempting to leave the natural environment as untouched as possible.

You'd best take all the bolts out as well then.

 John2 31 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave Garnett:

The bolts are necessary, the route names are not.

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 Dave Garnett 31 Jul 2018
In reply to John2:

> The bolts are necessary,

Says the man who wants to leave the natural environment as untouched as possible...

In reply to GarethSL:

> Not sure as to why your post got so much negativity for such a simple request.

I suspect because people don't like to be seen to encourage that sort of thing here...

I don't think the OP was suggesting that, but I find it a bit hard to figure out what they were asking. Granted, I'm pretty tired at the moment...

OP Rog Wilko 31 Jul 2018
In reply to jon:

> I must say I'd have thought that you of all people with your connections to Leysin would be able to lay your hands on topos for Rocher de Barme and Pierre du Möellé

Jon, I did, of course! I have a very battered Schweiz Plaisir about three editions old. My reason for starting this thread wasn't for an area where I'm likely to spend more than the odd day or two, but for places we're just likely to pass through on the way from A - B such as  Guignoterie and  La Fosse Arthour

OP Rog Wilko 31 Jul 2018
In reply to captain paranoia:  and several others

This kind of thing drives me nuts sometimes. I have no view on whether it is desirable or not for the French or other nationalities to paint the names of routes on the rock. It's their business, and I'm not advocating it here or anywhere else. However, the names are there (on some crags). I'm just saying that I would like to know in advance if that is the case so I can avoid the problems of locating a guidebook for somewhere I will never (probably) visit again. Those who feel strongly against such defacement of the rock (which is already bolted so scarcely in pristine condition) might also find this info useful so they can avoid visiting these crags and protect their delicate moral sensitivities from challenge. I think this might be my very last post on this thread!

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 John2 01 Aug 2018
In reply to Dave Garnett:

So what do you think when you see 'Gaz luvs Sharon' painted on the rock?

 Dave Garnett 01 Aug 2018
In reply to John2:

I'd think it was a pretty crap name for a route.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

> I agree.  Back in the 80s the route names at Buoux used to be rather beautifully painted in clear but discreet looped italic handwriting.   

Tolerable at Horseshoe but not many other places

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 jon 01 Aug 2018
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> Back in the 80s the route names at Buoux used to be rather beautifully painted in clear but discreet looped italic handwriting.   

Hmmm, I think that was second generation. I remember 'Pilier des Fourmis' in red, one foot high letters. 

 

 Mike Highbury 01 Aug 2018
In reply to jon:

> Hmmm, I think that was second generation. I remember 'Pilier des Fourmis' in red, one foot high letters. 

Am I imagining it or was there an arrow pointing upwards, as well?

 jon 01 Aug 2018
In reply to Mike Highbury:

More than likely!

 Wayne.Gaudin 01 Aug 2018
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I just tattoo the name of the route on the cured scalps of old trad climbers I've beheaded with my ninja clipstick and hang it on a bolt that I have placed next to a bomber crack, usually while busting some killer moves to my portable speakers.

No one has complained yet.

 Wsdconst 02 Aug 2018
In reply to Wayne.Gaudin:

You do realise half of ukc has just exploded in outrage at your comment. 

Wiley Coyote2 02 Aug 2018
In reply to baron:

> I believe that there was a short lived attempt at this method of route marking at Malham.


I was not inolved but IIRC the national park people objected to the names as defacing the cove and  the view at the time was that it was a very small concession to make to them  to  get a few brownie points in the bank for when more important conflicts occurred.

 Robert Durran 02 Aug 2018
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> I agree.  Back in the 80s the route names at Buoux used to be rather beautifully painted in clear but discreet looped italic handwriting.   

I quite liked the names nicely written on slivers of rock and lent against the crag at Indian Creek. Seemed less permanent. Which I suppose they're are because the famous ones mostly seemed to have been nicked!

 GarethSL 03 Aug 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

That's becoming more common here too. Just the name scribbled on a flat rock then put at the base of the climb. Seems far less intrusive or damaging, yet still useful.

 Wayne.Gaudin 03 Aug 2018
In reply to Wsdconst:

I was aiming for 99%. I even offended myself.

 stp 05 Aug 2018
In reply to John2:

> 'I agree'

> I don't want to see route names on the rock, however beautiful the calligraphy. We should be attempting to leave the natural environment as untouched as possible.

Well I hope you not using chalk then because that leaves a lot more mess than painted on route names.

 

 Babika 05 Aug 2018
In reply to Rog Wilko:

> If this is literally true, you must be one in a hundred. 

I must be another one in 100.

I bought a £35 guide to the Briancon area last Sept in the local shop and used it for 1 day sport climbing. But it's fun to read and I want to go back

Spent £25 on a Turkish sport guide I've never used. And that Dolomite guide.....never used that yet either....the list goes on.

Some of us just like guide books and dreaming 

 

 Angry old man 06 Aug 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

When Colin goodey did his new routes on the Llanberis slate, he usually left a slate at the bottom of the route with the name and grade of the route. Some still exist.


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