UKC

I'm after a few more options for mountain days out in N Wales. Looking for HVS/E1 give or take a grade, or big long VS. Accessible as a day trip from Snowdonia but not on Cloggy or in the pass (don't particularly want to be part of the problem and don't need any more on that to-do list anyway).
Don't mind how long the walk is as long as there's enough there to make a day of it. Things in the same genre as Crucible/Jabberwocky, The Groove, stuff like that. A bit out of the way but not too green/chossy.
I've done quite a few of the obvious ones, and been through the ticklists on here and picked out a few more, but what other underrated gems are there?

Doom and Acheron in Cwm Cywarch? Both excellent.

Dwm (E3 6a) at HVS/E1 with a bit of aid on the last pitch. Scenic walk-in and great situations. Final chimney gives one of the best finishing positions I know - up there with The Grooves (E1 5b).

Thanks, some good tips.

Had my eye on them until I read some of the write ups..... :-/
Edit: including yours!!!

> Dwm (E3 6a)

Any parking beta? Have driven past there a few times and doesn't look like you can park where the book says.

 

Memory is hazy, but I recall we parked in a public car park, (can't remember if it was pay) walked back down the road until we could get onto the lake shore, walked down to the end of the lake then back up on the other side, passing the campsite and wading through the odd inlet, then up a forestry track to the crag itself. We didn't park at the hotel (which you can see from the crag) and cut across the short way. The approach was part of the fun. I haven't got a map to hand so I hope this makes sense. On the walk out we simply kept going through the campsite to the road, where I collapsed with the bags while my much younger partner ran back up the road to get the car!

They're both definitely worth the veg for the adventure!

It fails your criterion about avoiding the Pass, but on a quiet day it might be worth thinking about Bad Altitude in the Llechog area. It's a long VS (6 pitches, mixing 4a/b/c and 5a) and it's certainly out of the way - in fact, it's so obscure it doesn't seem to be in the UKC database! It's on p. 340 of the Llanberis guide, which describes it as "A neo-classic alpine training route, destined to become popular with those with big leg muscles." Is it an underrated gem? I remember it as being pretty good fun. I'll enter it on here at some point.

You could also look at the north side of Cader Idris. Obsession (VS 4c) and Gwydrin (E1 5b) perhaps?

Theres also Gist Ddu on Aran Benllyn which has some classic routes but you'd want to take a scrubbing brush.

Another suggestion that might be worth looking at en-route: Gyllion (HVS 5a): fine setting and good situations, but walk-in past the bothy.

You gave Gist Ddu another really tempting write up.....
I had spied Gwydrin, but it'd be pushing it for a day trip at ~90 mins drive each way. Maybe on the way home. Gist Ddu might be within range... Edit: Nope. Nope nope. That's one for a travel day too.
Was thinking about Madryn (E1 5b) ...

Mur y Niwl (VS 4c) into Pinnacle Wall (S 4a)

Kirkus's Route (VS 5a) is away from it all but with a relatively short walk in. It’s the only thing there though so good for a short day (or you could link with the above for a long day!)

...and got the t-shirt. Good call though.
Keep them coming.

This thread should win a medal, I think it might be defining my summer holiday...

The Groove and Elliw on Llech Ddu are superb,

Some of the best mountain routes I have ever climbed have mostly been mentioned, but to confirm;

Gwydrin and Obsession

Acheron and Doom

Aardvark, Moai Man and Voie Suisse

What about Vertigo on Castell Cidwm? Beautiful route.

Done The Groove. Haven't done Elliw or The Great Corner, so maybe a day there.
Thanks again all, keep 'em coming.

These are all definitely on my radar now if they weren't already but possibly a bit out of range unless we hit them on the travel days.

I did Aardvark and Doom a few weeks ago and found the former a lot more pleasant; although it had some interesting climbing on I found Doom to be scarily dirty and the first pitch not that well protected. Aardvark was pretty lichen-y but it didn't massively affect the climbing. Abseiled off both which seemed like the better option.

We avoided the ramp descent because it looked scary and dangerous, but walking off up to the top of the spur, around and back down the valley isn't too bad and makes it feel like even more of a mountain day. The shared top pitch is short but nice and worth doing. I think if I was doing both in a day I'd climb Acheron first, taking care to look over rightwards for the ab spike at the top of pitch 1 of Doom, abseil from the big tree at the top of pitch 5 of Acheron to there and then again down to the ground, and then climb Doom to the top and walk off. That way you can collect your slings on the way back up and wouldn't need to leave any tat.

Sounds like a nice day out

we used the ab tat that's in situ which looked pretty new and didn't fail

I've been 2-3 times to Craig Lloer, to do Kirkus's Route, but each time it has started raining, so I've backed off. Did it not used to be 4c? In addition, I seem to remember that Kirkus soloed it when he found it.

It's a great route but I'd say expect 5a, unless you're accomplished in the traditional techniques and nobody's watching/listening.

You could try the recent routes on Carreg Fran Isaf Carreg Fran Isaf on the upper flank of Pen yr ol Wen overlooking the Ogwen valley. It certainly meets the criterion of a long approach and I think the routes are decent (well I would wouldn't I?). Park as for Sheep Pen boulders. The parking  can occasionally get congested on busy weekends but is usually OK until the overspill from the Ogwen Cottage and Tryfan carparks arrives.

They look..... intrepid! Nice looking lines though.
Just to be clear, long approach wasn't a requirement
 

Anything on Llech Du.

Sorry, I inferred that from "mountain days out". For me a mountain day out does include a long approach although not necessarily one as long and awkward as Carreg Fran: the walk up alone has claimed victims amongst my climbing companions.  Really selling this aren't I?

I mean...... It's gone on the list. Just.... not near the top of the list
 

The clue was in the words "upper flank" 😁

Gwyderin and Voie Suisse are brilliant pitches in nice quiet settings, i really enjoyed both of them but make sure you get them dry. Acheron and Doom are good but maybe not as clean as the first two. Cwm Cywarch is a very nice valley though. There are other good routes here and some that may have been cleaned recently-ish

Are they sensible to drive out to from ogwen or is it really something to hit on the way up/down?

Slightly left field suggestion as it's not technically a mountain route (though it feels like one, just one with bonus seals) is Avernus on the Lleyn. I did it recently and it's a proper adventurous day out - loads of climbing, intricate route finding, fairly long approach/descent and its fair share of vegetation/choss.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/trwyn_y_gorlech_lleyn-9472/avernus...

Thanks, yeah, there's a few things we could do over that way. The Bardsey Ripple (E2 5b) looks worthwhile too. Good options if the weather's crap inland.

Never done Bardsey Ripple but I've always fancied it. That and Path to Rome have been at the top of my Lleyn wishlist forever. I'd be cautious about Avernus as a crap weather option - it was bone dry when we did it the other weekend but I'd not fancy doing it if it was at all wet, there's an awful lot of vegetation on it and I think it would be quite a serious proposition.

I agree, Avernus is best avoided if at all wet (the grassy traverse to the start would probably make you turn around). I did it during the recent heatwave to avoid the sun as it stays in the shade for most of the day. 

My recommendation would be Zarquon/Resurrection/Erection (E2 5c). Fantastic climbing in a quiet setting. You'll not notice being next to the Rhyd Ddu path. Steady approach of about 80min.

+1 recommendation for Mur y Niwl (VS 4c) and how about throwing in Aura (E2 5b) and Pinnaclissima (E2 5c) for an outstanding 9* day?

Top tip - approach from above and rap in to avoid the unpleasant gully.

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2021/06/03/craig-yr-ysfa/

Cheers, Dom 

Already had 2 thwarted attempts at that day out. Exactly the kind of suggestion I'm looking for though, thanks.

Ah yes, we did it about six days after you and appreciated seeing a bit of your chalk here and there. It was nice reassurance we weren't totally off route. Unfortunately we managed to time it badly and I ended up with horrifically sunburnt shoulders but hey ho, it was still a lovely day!

I was up there today.  Backed off Acheron due to wet vegetation and copious lichen.

Did Obsession on Cwfry yesterday and that was in great condition. 

As I said, they’d be ok very dry, but avoid if at all wet. Lichen is ok if it’s dusty, it would be horrendous in the damp. 

Acheron improves substantially after the scrappy 1st pitch. The only other sketchy bit was the short band of vertical grass close to the top of pitch 5.

You’ll have to go and clean them thoroughly first

Yep, done that one. We might have different definitions of lovely walk in (my legs did not agree) but it was a good day out and a nice walk back along the ridge and down by ffynnon lloer.

Every other time I've been back to do aura/pinaclissima/mur y niwl the weather has played nasty games.

We were hoping that the initial bit of vegetation  was the end of it but I turned back at the first overlap where the cleaner rock started ! Too much lichen for my out of condition fingers to pull on.  Plus a perfect abseil spike and the advancing afternoon meant it was coffee shop time.   Must go back sometime. 

Well the first section is cleaner than it was !

Ref. Castell Cidwm access. You used to be able to park near the property Planwydd, but the owner's not happy about that anymore. Your best bet is either to park at the P&D (£5?) at the Ranger YH, or the P&D at Rhyd Ddu (also used by the steam railway) & bike along the road to Planwydd, where you can follow a really good forest track (& Public Right of Way) past the campsite & along the side of Llyn Cwellyn, almost to the bottom of the crag.

Other crags you might consider: Clogwyn Du, under Glyder Fawr, walking in from the CPs under Craig Bochlwyd, rather than Idwal CP.

Great Gully next to Craig yr Isfa has a couple of great new-ish routes at E2-E3 on the superb rock of its North facing wall. Check the CC website or UKC for route details. Needs a 45m abseil rope to get in from the top.

Arenig Fawr, is an hour from Bethesda & has heaps of good routes at E1-E3.

...and how could I forget, the imminent Y Moelwynion CC guide has stacks of mountain routes in, especially on Moel Siabod......

Thanks!

Yes, if the new CC guide was out I wouldn't have asked the question. There'll be a world of stuff to go at in there but currently it's all just a big mysterious "here be dragons" area. Found some stuff worth a look in the steepstone pdfs, so might head that way for a day or two.

Where is this from the top of Idwal? Would e.g. Javelin Blade, Grey Arete, Hebenwi work or is my geography all wrong? Looks plausible from the photo in the selected guide but I don't know my way around the top of the glyders that well. Is it nearer glyder fach? Hard to tell which crags will link up from the guidebooks/maps.

That would work because it parallels the more common lower grade chain of various ways up Idwal Slabs followed by Grey Slab and then over to Manx Wall on Clogwyn Du, although you'd need to do something to get to the bottom of Javelin Blade.

If you wanted to add in a route above Javelin Blade then Continuation Crack (HVS 5a) might be suitable (this is not a personal recommendation - I just know it's there 😁 )

I would also suggest looking at the 3D view on Google maps - since this bit of Snowdonia is really done properly (it's almost at "mind you don't trip over that stone" resolution), in combination with a decent guidebook you can get a really good feel for exactly where the routes are and the terrain between them.

You'll see that from the top of the Idwal Slabs it's quite a bit over to the right with some height gain to get to the Grey group, but from the top of there it's way over to the left to get to Clogwyn Du with not much height gain.

If only all crag areas were modelled in 3D like this - Avon Gorge is - because it's in Bristol, but unfortunately Stanage is just too far outside Sheffield, and the Lake District is not in proper 3D.

There might be crags near cities in Scotland that are done like this - the stuff in the middle of Edinburgh is (Holyrood Park?). What would be brilliant was if they did stuff like the Cullin in proper 3D, would really be useful for pre-trip familiarisation.

The moelwyns have some great stuff to go at - Clipiau in particular has some class routes. Mean Feat (HVS 5a) is amazing.

Done it. Well, mean/great link up. I agree. Loads there, wish there was a good book for it :-/

I've got quite a lot of affection for the Meirionydd guide actually....

It's sad that there isn't a replacement in the works to cover Cader and the Arans.

If you see a copy for sale let me know

Just found this: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/snowdonia_in_chains-435 so, seems like yes!

Take note of the log/thread comments about Grey Arete, the middle bit (I believe) being very bold and poorly protected although not the technical crux. Will obviously depend on how many grades you have in hand.

Yep, noticed all that. Hopefully still one or two but we'll see how it looks when we've got there carrying all our crap. There's always the VS next to it if we've had enough excitement by then.

A Boysen route? Plankwalk HVS 5b has(d) a rocking block that allowed a rest just the before hard bit but when you moved off it rocked back in adding to the commitment. Also thought Keel Haul was cracking route.

Just saw a copy for sale in Cotswolds Chester fyi.

I did Bad Attitude about 10 years ago or so, and remember finding it very meh, and not worth the walk-in. However, there's a fairly high chance that we were off route from pretty near the start! Nice views up the pass though.

Ah well, like I said I remember it as being good fun, but that could have been down to the company and the craic as much as the route.

That's an important component too in my opinion.

As I said, not sure if we were on route though, so there could well have been a four star underrated classic just off to the side as we climbed grassy slopes connection chossy bits of rock (wouldn't be the first time!)