/ Ocun Multipoint Belay Sling

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radddogg 29 Apr 2019

Am I missing something or is this going to shock load your anchor if a piece fails?

http://www.ocun.com/en/products/slings-and-technical-aids/multipoint-belay-sling.html

petegunn 29 Apr 2019
In reply to radddogg:

I like how it says you can tie a knot in it!

. In case of need it is possible to fix each arm with knot. 

David Coley 30 Apr 2019
In reply to radddogg:

No  as the assumption is that you and the other climber are attached to it via the rope. 

3
DubyaJamesDubya 30 Apr 2019
In reply to radddogg:

> Am I missing something or is this going to shock load your anchor if a piece fails?

It would appear so unless you tie the 'optional' knot they mention.

Perhaps the assumption is that bolt belays are not going to fail.

DubyaJamesDubya 30 Apr 2019
In reply to David Coley:

That would still create a shock in, relative terms, not to mention being pulled out of position.

radddogg 30 Apr 2019
In reply to David Coley:

So it's basically like a sliding v. Which everyone will tell you to avoid.

Andypeak 30 Apr 2019
In reply to radddogg:

It's for use on bolted routes . It replicates a very commonly used (in Europe) method of eaqualising bolted anchors. You will shock load the system if one fails but the assumption is that with bolts this is very unlikely to happen and even if it did it would be very unlikely to make the others fail. 

1
gravy 30 Apr 2019
In reply to Andypeak:

Don't do it folks! either:

- you don't need a back up (in which case you don't need to equalise)

-or-

you do need to back up (in which case they need to be equalised and independent)

3
In reply to gravy:

> Don't do it folks! either:

> - you don't need a back up (in which case you don't need to equalise)

> -or-

> you do need to back up (in which case they need to be equalised and independent)

.. or it is nice to have two points for stability on a hanging stance.

Alan

AlanLittle 30 Apr 2019
In reply to Andypeak:

> It's for use on bolted routes

They  say "for making fast belay point while climbing unsecured multi-pitches and big walls", by which they clearly mean non-bolted anchors.

And at least in the part of Europe where I live, the DAV has been recommending against equalising anchors on bolts for years. They teach what David Coley & Co call a "banshee belay": master point on one bolt, redundancy backup to the other one.

Robert Durran 30 Apr 2019
In reply to AlanLittle:

> > It's for use on bolted routes

> They  say "for making fast belay point while climbing unsecured multi-pitches and big walls", by which they clearly mean non-bolted anchors.

And use of the term "multi-pitches" as a plural noun means they simply cannot be taken seriously anyway.

7
beardy mike 30 Apr 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

Oh FFS Robert, they're not English speakers, cut them some slack... I suspect if you had to write stuff in Czech you might make the odd mistake.

Post edited at 10:14
beardy mike 30 Apr 2019
In reply to radddogg:

I don't really see the issue with this as a product other than it being a bit pointless. Just something else to carry to clutter your harness. I mean you can isolate the legs - it's a recommended way of using it... And if you're using it at a bolted belay stance, unless you are hauling, it's pretty unlikely that anything will happen. Less so on trad, but then why are you relying on anchors which might fail? Go to another belay if you can't get at least two decent pieces?

Robert Durran 30 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

> Oh FFS Robert, they're not English speakers, cut them some slack.........

Ok, fair enough, I'll happily blame the English speakers who have brought the horrible term into common usage.

2
DubyaJamesDubya 30 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

> Oh FFS Robert, they're not English speakers, cut them some slack... I suspect if you had to write stuff in Czech you might make the odd mistake.

I assumed he was making a joke.

beardy mike 30 Apr 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

Haha - you're a hard task master

Robert Durran 30 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

> I don't really see the issue with this as a product other than it being a bit pointless. Just something else to carry to clutter your harness.

Exactly my first thought too.

> Less so on trad, but then why are you relying on anchors which might fail? Go to another belay if you can't get at least two decent pieces?

Not always possible. Anyway, if you are so sure that your anchors will never fail, why bother with two anchors in the first place? The whole point of using two anchors is in case one fails, and, if it does, you don't want to shock load the others.

Robert Durran 30 Apr 2019
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> I assumed he was making a joke.

It's no joke; the the term makes me truly apoplectic.

1
john arran 30 Apr 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

If you're resolutely against the use of multi-pitch [route], presumably you've also never placed a cam[ming device], bought the latest guide[book] or indeed tied a Figure of 8 [knot]?

TobyA 30 Apr 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

> It's no joke; the the term makes me truly apoplectic.

Particularly when its used by brand ambassadors I presume?

1
Robert Durran 30 Apr 2019
In reply to john arran:

> If you're resolutely against the use of multi-pitch [route], presumably you've also never placed a cam[ming device], bought the latest guide[book] or indeed tied a Figure of 8 [knot]?

Who said my revulsion had to be rational? Anyway, I think my revulsion probably stems from the fact that the usage seems to have started among those who see multi-pitch routes as somehow not simply the norm.

1
Robert Durran 30 Apr 2019
In reply to TobyA:

> Particularly when its used by brand ambassadors I presume?

Obviously.

Robert Durran 30 Apr 2019
In reply to john arran:

> If you're resolutely against the use of multi-pitch [route], presumably you've also never placed a cam[ming device], bought the latest guide[book] or indeed tied a Figure of 8 [knot]?

Actually these are all terrible examples; cam, figure and guide are all perfectly good commonly used nouns which are being used as adjectives. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noun_adjunct). Multi-pitch is not; nobody ever used Multi-Pitch as an a noun until it's recent lazy adoption by some climbers.

jimtitt 30 Apr 2019
In reply to radddogg:

Incidentally this design (like the Trango one and the ACR) despite claims that it "distributes evenly the weight" does nothing of the sort, forcing the tape to slide through five 180° bends means nothing is in any way equalised and the Trango version was the worst of any system I measured.

beardy mike 30 Apr 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

I was under the impression (and this may be a complete misillusion but mechanically speaking it is sound) that it is more about spreading load across multiple belay legs so that there is a huge amount of strength in the belay rather than there being redundancy. I mean the more legs there are the less likely you will be to see an anchor failure in the first place, so you will be less likely to need isolation. By the time you get to three pieces the load each pieces is only around 4kN when it's an absolute whopper of a fall at 14kN (i.e. a crap rope and a belayer landing on the belay at the same time as the leader in a factor 2 fall). 

Robert Durran 30 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

> I was under the impression (and this may be a complete misillusion but mechanically speaking it is sound) that it is more about spreading load across multiple belay legs so that there is a huge amount of strength in the belay rather than there being redundancy.

This assumes that the Sliding-X does this but independent tied off anchors do not (or at least not as effectively).

beardy mike 30 Apr 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

No it doesn't - spreading load across legs works whether they are independent or not. The only real difference in a loaded situation given that all legs are tight is that should an anchor fail, the other anchors should not, and you'll not be pulled from your position. So that's really the distinction here.

Mehmet Karatay 30 Apr 2019
In reply to radddogg:

It looks like a commercialisation of the method discussed on this UKC thread from 2010: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/acr_anchor_method-399442

Mehmet

jimtitt 30 Apr 2019
In reply to Mehmet Karatay:

It´s actually a copy of the Trango Alpine Equalizer (which is no longer made) and the ACR was a home-made version, none of which do what is claimed.

Mehmet Karatay 30 Apr 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

I agree that they are not a good idea. I didn't know about the Trango version. 


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