UKC

/ Old Man of Stoer - Tyrolean?

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ozandrew - on 03 Jul 2018

Thinking of doing OMoS in a few weeks time and was wondering if there is an Insitu tyrolean in place at present. We'd need to assess its condition of course...

Babika - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to ozandrew:

There wasn't when we did it in May. But it's much more fun to do the swim and set up your own anyway!

Adds to the whole OMS enjoyment!

Ian Archer - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to ozandrew:

We did it 4 days ago. 30th June and there was one in place then.

Trangia on 04 Jul 2018

In reply:

There was a thread on this subject only a few weeks ago. Unless a party has set up a Tylolean say the night before or is actually on the route, I find it hard to understand who would leave one there for "a few weeks" !!?

As Babika says, it's much more fun, indeed part of the experience to do the swim and set up your own. 

 

Pay Attention - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to ozandrew:

Swim the channel.  There's no sharks!

[Spoiler alert]

Or, you might wait for low tide and walk the rope round.

Trangia on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Pay Attention:

 

> Or, you might wait for low tide and walk the rope round.

I don't remember the tide being that low, or does it only occur on Spring tides?

 

Babika - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Trangia:

We did it at low tide on a spring tide and I still had to swim across the channel. Unless you've got a 200m rope and want to scramble a long way North over the rocks I can't see how that's ever possible.

Pay Attention - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Trangia:

I've done it with a 50m rope.  It may have been a Spring tide. 

Post edited at 09:21
Robert Durran - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Ian Archer:

> We did it 4 days ago. 30th June and there was one in place then.

Please someone remove it!

Simon Caldwell - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to ozandrew:

Even if someone posts that one is in place, it could well have gone before you get there so best work on the assumption that you'll need your own

Andrew Lodge - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to ozandrew:

If you find one there, please remove it so those that follow you can enjoy the full experience.

victim of mathematics - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Pay Attention:

Yeah, you need a low low tide to be able to walk/boulder hop across.

Dangerous Dave - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Ian Archer:

> We did it 4 days ago. 30th June and there was one in place then.

I removed the insitu one last year and would hope someone would do the same again if another appears. There is no need for one to be there.

Jim 1003 - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Dangerous Dave:

Crap...

Dangerous Dave - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

> Crap...

???

Brown - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Dangerous Dave:

Do people lack the skills to set up a retrievable Tyrolean? Are people leaving it in place to avoid a second swim?

Or do people think it's a good thing to do? That they are performing a service to the community?

I am genuinely disappointed that there was a rope in place when I went. Not using it would have been akin to not clipping bolts to claim a traditional lead of a sports route but it significantly reduced the experience.

Jim 1003 - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Brown:

More crap..

Dangerous Dave - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

> More crap..

Wow your now i understand your spectacular argument and have changed my mind! 

Andy Nisbet - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Brown:

Some of us can't swim.

Brown - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

This would not account for leaving a tyrolean as you must have swam to put it up and you do not need to swim to take it down.

Do you think that people leave the tyrolean in place to assist unknown future parties who cannot swim? That would seem like quite a niche group.

(can we fix a rope to the top for people who cannot climb?)

Dangerous Dave - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

> Some of us can't swim.

Lots of people can't do lots of things, you either learn or don't do it. You do not sanitise the experience for the many.

Some of us can't place gear, so should we just bolt everything?

Dangerous Dave - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to ozandrew:

This was done last year too https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/old_man_of_stoer_-_tyrolean_in_place-668058

The general consensus was that a tyrolean should not be left in place, and I for one hope that it remains that way. 

Robert Durran - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

> Some of us can't swim.

And some people can't climb, but they don't expect Via Ferratas or whatever to be on situ. Anyway, if you can't swim, I'm sure you could find a partner who can.

Dangerous Dave - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

Or get a blow up raft or a canoe, many other options available!

Jim 1003 - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Dangerous Dave:

> Lots of people can't do lots of things, you either learn or don't do it. You do not sanitise the experience for the many.

> Some of us can't place gear, so should we just bolt everything?

Bit of a silly statement....

Dangerous Dave - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

Have you got a decent argument as to why we should have a tyrolean in place or are you just going to carry on making pointless statements ending with lots of full stops?

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

I, much like Brown and many others, don't buy this argument.

If you don't climb VS, but want to climb the Old Man of Stoer, you'll need to find a VS climber with which to do it with. Same goes for the swim, if you can't swim, find someone that can (and can lead VS) and do it with them. Tyroleans are retrievable when setup properly, so it all comes down to laziness (or perhaps incompetence*?) at the end of the day. 

Leaving the tyrolean in-situ not only goes against the 'leave no trace' ethic that is advocated by trad climbers everywhere, but also seems totally at odds with the location, the adventure, and the spirit of sea stack climbing.

If you wanted climbing handed to you on a plate you'd just go to Stanage...

 

*FYI, I'm not referring to you as being incompetent (you're probably one of the most competent people out there!!), it's more just a reference to those that go without the knowledge of how to set a tyrolean up - much like the people who go to Pabbay/Mingulay without knowledge of how to prussik!

Post edited at 09:47
Jim 1003 - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Leave no trace ethic....do you not go sport climbing and drive to the crag? What about ab stations on crags etc, it's all a bit hypocritical...the leave no trace brigade...so you can have bolts on sport crags, but not leave stuff on Trad crags, can't really get my head round the logic myself....but can be  bothered arguing about it

Post edited at 12:18
In reply to Jim 1003:

Whilst I can see what you're getting at let's not confuse the issue we're actually discussing, which is a tyrolean - not the global ramifications of human existence or the fact that people can go sport climbing and trad climbing for different reasons without having an existential crisis.

 

Post edited at 12:18
Dangerous Dave - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

> Leave no trace ethic....do you not go sport climbing and drive to the crag? What about ab stations on crags etc, it's all a bit hypocritical...the leave no trace brigade...so you can have bolts on sport crags, but not leave stuff on Trad crags, 

Very silly statement....

Jim 1003 - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I'm not confusing it, in my mind anyway, it's a bit like Labour MP's complaining about private schools and sending their own kids to one....you can't have your cake and eat it...anyway looks like another great weekend for climbing and UKC is distracting me from tidying my house before my GF's arrival....

Post edited at 12:23
Jim 1003 - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

> I, much like Brown and many others, don't buy this argument.

> If you don't climb VS, but want to climb the Old Man of Stoer, you'll need to find a VS climber with which to do it with. Same goes for the swim, if you can't swim, find someone that can (and can lead VS) and do it with them. Tyroleans are retrievable when setup properly, so it all comes down to laziness (or perhaps incompetence*?) at the end of the day. 

> Leaving the tyrolean in-situ not only goes against the 'leave no trace' ethic that is advocated by trad climbers everywhere, but also seems totally at odds with the location, the adventure, and the spirit of sea stack climbing.

> If you wanted climbing handed to you on a plate you'd just go to Stanage...

> *FYI, I'm not referring to you as being incompetent (you're probably one of the most competent people out there!!), it's more just a reference to those that go without the knowledge of how to set a tyrolean up - much like the people who go to Pabbay/Mingulay without knowledge of how to prussik!

^ You cant criticise God....

Dangerous Dave - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

You still haven't managed to give a coherent reason as to why we should leave an insitu tyrolean in place. Do you have a valid point and can you make it without ending a sentence with multiple full stops? 

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

can't really get my head round the logic myself....but can be  bothered arguing about it

 

and yet, here you are

 

Post edited at 12:37
Simon Caldwell - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Dangerous Dave:

> You still haven't managed to give a coherent reason as to why we should leave an insitu tyrolean in place. Do you have a valid point and can you make it without ending a sentence with multiple full stops? 

I thought he's made it quite clear. It's OK to leave an in-situ Tyrolean on the Old man of Stoer, because some of those who climb it have also been bolt-clipping at Sella.

Jim 1003 - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

> I thought he's made it quite clear. It's OK to leave an in-situ Tyrolean on the Old man of Stoer, because some of those who climb it have also been bolt-clipping at Sella.

That's obviously not what I said, are you a half wit? What I said was, I don't understand those that sport climb criticising others for using in situ equipment....(so more dots for you dangerous)....

Post edited at 14:52
Dangerous Dave - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

Can you seriously not see the difference between bolted sport routes and an insitu tyrolean at a sea stack? 

Part of the challenge of climbing a sea stack is getting to the base of it. Having an in situ tyrolean in place reduces the challenge. For me it would also reduce the enjoyment of the day. Getting across and setting up the tyrolean was part of the whole experience of the day that made it special.

Sport climbing is all about the climbing. They are two completely different activities within the same sport and comparing them against each other as a means to justify your point is moronic. Simon used a bit of tongue in cheek but that almost sums up what you are saying.

Post edited at 16:16
Dangerous Dave - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

Also no one is criticising people for using the in situ gear. It is just being stated we do not want an in situ tyrolean. Really quite simple...

Post edited at 16:32
Jim 1003 - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Dangerous Dave:

You are saying we, I am quite happy if there is an in situ Tyrolean, as are others, I think it is better to speak for yourself.

Brown - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

In many regards I am also happy when there is an in situ Tyrolean as I get to booty it. As I did in 2011.

Jim 1003 - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Brown:

Did you use it first though?

Dangerous Dave - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

We as in the majority.....

Robert Durran - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim 1003:

Your argument, if it can be called that, is possibly the biggest load of bollocks I've ever seen on here. And that's takes quite some doing.

 

Post edited at 18:06
alan moore - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

> Some of us can't swim.

I had to enlist a swimmer. My bit was to buy the jumar and read the instructions on how to tension a tyrolean. 

We both would have been gutted if there was one already in place.

Babika - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to alan moore:

There was one in place and a team in situ when we turned up.

However we still set up our own as a) they'd slackened it off so it wasn't left under tension b) we wanted to leave a retrievable rope so no need to swim back and c) it was a whole heap of fun!

Debating how low to put the rope bearing in mind the rising tide, the knackered old pegs at the wrong angle, too far away and the least scary launch spot make for a memorable experience. 

There's even an art to pulling yourself across effectively (hint: head first).

Book yourself a day and savour it


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