UKC

I was recently in Athens and went up to the Acropolis, it was fascinating to see how polished the rock is up there, the flat (horizontal) walkways are like walking on an ice rink in places, (people were slipping over on flat surfaces) which got me wondering about the future of some crags. 
As climbing becomes more popular are we going to find some crags, particularly easily accessed/easy/classic areas become unusable due to extreme polish? 

which raises an interesting question of how long (if at all?) does it take for rock to recover if not climbed on? 

 

In reply to echo34:

Your own evidence from the Acropolis suggests that recovery isn't going to happen at all.

So, get those classics done while you can!

T.

In reply to Tony Buckley:

Presumably the walkways of the acropolis haven't been left 'fallow', as per the OPs question of recovery 'if not climbed on'.

Mind you I can't imagine many people obeying rules to leave classics unclimbed to allow the rock to recover (if that is even possible).

In reply to echo34:

Long Climb (S 4a) suggests a very, very long time.

In reply to echo34:

I remember the closure of the Portway under the Avon Gorge in the late 70's. (They blew up a lot of unknown Buttress). The Gorge is limestone and climbing traffic dropped considerably. My memory was that some of the polished holds significantly improved during that period before general access was resumed. Possibly due to acidic rainfall,

Peter

In reply to echo34:

From the title, I assumed you were announcing a modern and relevant addition to the Classic/Hard/Extreme Rock lineage.

In reply to petwes:

Yes, that came to my mind too. Some of the glassy classics on Central Buttress had returned to being pleasantly grippy - for a while. I believe they were closed for about five years?

Chris

In reply to echo34:

You get the same issue on limestone bridleways. Continuous stretches of rock can be really polished and can be very tricky for MTB riders when wet.

I've often pondered taking a battery drill powered needle scabbler to some of the worst bits but never built up the courage.

In reply to blurty:

A weak acid would likely do the job a lot better, however I'm not sure this would be a particularly ethical approach!

In reply to echo34:

sea cliff limestone is never polished afaik. water dissolves limestone particularly well in the present of salt. perhaps that indicates a environmentally sensitive way of removing polish.

In reply to mutt:

... Portland?

In reply to mutt:

Portland, Torquay.  Not sure what the Ormes are like these days haven't been for a while. Even some areas of Pembroke are showing signs so I think you are wrong.

In reply to mutt: Disappointingly limestones are pretty insoluble in seawater compared to fresh.   So seacliffs get plenty polished

In reply to wbo2:

The soft limestone sea cliffs of Malta (& Gozo) are as sharp as a bastard, and seem to get re-sharpened every winter!

Must be the limestone type.

In reply to wbo2:

Shelled sea creatures would be quite upset if seawater dissolved them! 

In reply to echo34:

I don't think limestone gets unusable due to polish, it's just harder to use.

In reply to GrahamD:

Does this not lead to a situation where all the easily accessible/easier limestone routes become unusable for most people though? 
 

In reply to echo34:

I don't see why. Harborough Rocks is pretty much uniformly glassy, but it's still perfectly climbable, even for beginners.

In reply to ebdon:

In man made quarries is it still considered unethical? These areas would surely be ideal for the us as they get used regularly and are usually sport routes. I wonder if the ethical view will change in time 🤔

In reply to echo34:

Careful now, someone is reading this and taking you seriously. The one thing I've learned about rock is it doesn't grow back. Attempts to improve things are nearly always bodged.

In reply to echo34:

I guess it would be the chemical equivalent of chipping which most people would agree is totally unacceptable. 

In reply to echo34:

A few, I guess, but most times polish only makes half a grade or so difference at most in lower grades (where I am), as holds tend to be positive and aren't so dependent on friction.

In reply to echo34:

Maybe all the polished routes will help incubate the next generation of top level climbers....forcing them to get their footwork right early!

In reply to echo34:

one word Avon

(incidently how is Stoney these days?)

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

When Pembroke was first being developed the rock was like razors. A long weekend would leave you with bleeding fingertips, furry rope and rock shoes looking like they had been put on a belt sander. Three years later, after climbing at St Govans, all the gnarly bits had gone. 

Peter

In reply to echo34:

Plus all the worn out gear placements! It would  be interesting to get a view into the future and see what that holds for popular crags. Will Harrison’s be a beach in 100 years after all the traffic or will access be tightly regulated?  I suspect the future will be plastic and wouldn’t be totally amazed if popular crags get a protective coating!

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

portland is a way Above the sea. Can't see a lot of waves crashing over Blacknor

In reply to echo34:

Saw thread title.  Thought "That's an odd pick for the enxt in the Classic-Hard-Extreme series"

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

I don't think route has seen much traffic since the railway closed in 1970? My understanding of Laddow is that it is a heady mix of vegetation and polish. Tasty.

In reply to echo34:

As a Chudleigh fan, polish isn't really a problem, but just another experience. If you push your foot into the hold, rather and along it, it can't slip, however polished. (Easier said, than done.)

In reply to JimR:

I came across epoxy resined covered holds on a crag above lake como about 25 years ago.  Interestingly , the locals had chosen a relatively fine compound so the friction was probably comparable to the original smooth limestone.

In reply to Removed User:

I pulled a foot thickness of turf off a hold on a Laddow route and the rock was polished underneath!

In reply to Offwidth:

If the holds are big enough to maintain a foot of turf - that sounds like my kind of climb!

In reply to Removed User:

Twas a mod.

In reply to steveriley:

Limestone can.

OP: there seems to be a strong majority opposed to using acid to restore a rougher surface to polished limestone (I don't really agree, but if that's the consensus, so be it). So I instead suggest setting up ongoing water seepage from above, to hopefully build up some fresh new tufa.

In reply to echo34: Piton route at Avon was a polished horror with rotten pegs 40 years ago, but people still climb it now. 

I'm not sure what etching with acid is going to achieve - it will simply repolish in a few weeks