UKC

Hi folks,

I'm interested in what folk think is the current 'best practice' for replacing existing sport lower-offs on horizontal bolt placements.

I'm in discussion with the 7aMax bolt fund folks to go ahead with replacing the lower-off hardware (NOT the bolts) on one of the lower-offs at  Ardvorlich (AKA 'Hidden Wall') - the existing hardware is heavily rusted (see photo - it's the one above the route Lake Lomond (6a)).

The anchor points are quite far back and most guidebooks recommend rigging a long sling over the sloping edge to extend the lower off but this is a bit of a faff, as there's no easy anchor for staying safe while setting that up.

My current thinking is to do the following:

• Unscrew the bolts and remove the existing bolt hangers to allow inspection of the bolt itself.
• Assuming the bolt looks sound (no corrosion etc.) I would plan to replace the bolt hangers with an integrated V-chainset anchor from Bolt Products consisting of new bolt hangers, integrated welded chains and a single/double steel ring with a Rams Horn/Pigtail on it to allow an open system with no re-threading needed for lower off.
• Re-apply new locking bolts tightened to appropriate tightness with torsion wrench.

I would get custom (longer) chain lengths to extend the master point over the edge a bit more and it would all be stainless steel of course.

I really like the idea of the Ram's Horn to allow quick and easy direct attachment of the rope and immediate lower-off without having to re-thread etc. The Rams horn can easily be twisted off and replaced if it gets worn. Of course that also means it can be stolen, but having the ring left to form the V-chainset would still make the lower-off usable if someone decides to be an arse and take the Rams Horn.

This is not really a beginner crag (easiest route is 6a) and there's not a lot of passing traffic but it's a decent sport crag in Scotland  (a rare thing!) so I'm keen to make it as usable as possible.

If you came across a ram's horn lower off on a sport route in Scotland - would you know what to do with it?

The only downside I can see is that the chains would end up being quite long - probably about 60-90cm.

The alternative is to just put new horizontal bolt hangers on with integrated rings, but then you're still going to need to use a sling etc. to extend it.

Constructive opinions welcomed.

Thanks

Dave

Is there any reason why new lower-off bolts cannot be placed in a far more convenient position and then just use a regular lower-off set? Or maybe my question should be, why were the original lower-off bolts placed where they are now? Would long chains not just rub around on the rock and make it look awful after a while? Pigtail-style lower-offs are unusual in the UK I think, nothing wrong with them unless you count people not knowing how to use them properly... Another option would be captive wiregate krabs, but maybe that costs a bit more to implement. When you say all-stainless, does that include hangers too? Thinking about bolt material (is that stainless too?) and galvanic corrosion etc...

Hi Sean, I'm afraid I don't know the logic for the original bolt placements, but they are far from ideal both from a location perspective and also the horizontal position means water can pool etc.

Moving the bolt positions is out of my league at this stage and not something I can offer.

Regarding the bolt material, I don't know what was originally used, but I can check what material the existing bolt hangers are and that would give a clue.

(and yes I was thinking stainless hangers too).

I think I'm now tending towards a simple bolt-hanger swap with integrated lower-off rings, just to keep it simple.

I was curious about the Pigtails though.

Thanks.

It looks as if the bolts are there because that's about as close to the edge as you want to go when coming from above. The line was then bolted on abseil and these bolts became the de-facto end of the route as they are the last bolts... 

As previously mentioned I'd put a lower off where the real climbing ends so maybe a metre or so lower? If you wanted you could change the hangers to tidy things up and provide access to anyone who wants to install a rope from above. Extending with chains is both far more visually intrusive and expensive than two holes and a belay.

Personally I've never seen the point of the ram's horn style lower-offs except in areas where there are queues for routes and every second counts.

Ewan

I suspect it would be best to replace anchor and chains etc. At least you know the state of the system at the present time, nothing lasts forever.

Another consideration is the rock at the top of the rock face. On some quarries in Cumbria, for instance, the rock is only good for bolting lower on the route and back from the top. The rock  is too fractured in the optimum position for a lower off.

Really appreciate the effort you're making in sorting out these lower-offs, it might be best to see if bolts can be placed for conveniently for lower-offs (loose rock etc  permitting, as pointed out by Rick Graham). The bolt fund people must surely know someone with the skills to be able to rebolt if appropriate, maybe it's worth asking and even tag along for the work to assist, might be a good way to learn the process.

If you're concerned that people won't know how to use ram's horns, bolt one on at ground level with instructions, or just place an instructional sign.  Is use of 'non standard' loweroffs like ramshorns or monster hooks taught in climbing qualifications?  They would seem to have no drawbacks so it would be sensible to encourage their use, especially as they prevent people threading glue-ins and wearing them out.