UKC

Rock and Covid Virus

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 Bob Bennett 27 May 2020

Any info on how long Covid virus remains on various rock types?

8
 mrphilipoldham 27 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

No, the scientists have more important things on their plate.

5
In reply to Bob Bennett:

Your being hysterical, if you want to climb go, otherwise stay on the couch.

26
OP Bob Bennett 27 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

Just asking!

 Lankyman 27 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

From what I heard on the radio copper destroys viruses like flu. Perhaps you could try climbing above Coniston. Crags up there might be safer?

In reply to Bob Bennett:

Possibly more than 24 but less than 72 hours. 

 tjdodd 27 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

Research has shown definitively that around the roaches it stays for eternity. So best everyone avoids climbing there from now on. 

Roadrunner6 27 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

It doesn't spread easily via surfaces - that's the latest CDC advice, take some sanitizer but the chance of the person having used that hold recently are so remote I'd not be concerned. Just avoid putting hands in your mouth as usual. 

 Red Rover 27 May 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Hell crack at Stanage might be a bad idea though, I don't fancy grinding the skin that coats the inside of the crack into my hands right now!

In reply to Red Rover:

> Hell crack at Stanage might be a bad idea though

Was it ever a good idea?  I'm sure I still carry the scars, 33 years after doing it.

T.

 Lankyman 27 May 2020
In reply to tjdodd:

> Research has shown definitively that around the roaches it stays for eternity. So best everyone avoids climbing there from now on. 


Actually, the research stated clearly 'forever and a day'. Please stop peddling falsehood.

 LeeWood 27 May 2020
In reply to Red Rover:

gritstone jamming was never a good idea - esp at Black Rocks or higgar !

1
 Red Rover 27 May 2020
In reply to LeeWood:

Better than gritstone laybacking!

 Michael Hood 27 May 2020
In reply to Red Rover:

Except that Hell Crack (VS 4c) is much easier if at the start, you layback the right hand of the pair of cracks.

In reply to Michael Hood:

But, on Hell Crack you have to use a good but painful jam for the crux move over the overhang. Painful because there's a big crystal that digs into the back of your hand and can draw blood. IIRC. So I'd avoid that.

 olddirtydoggy 27 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

The only place that is safe to climb at the moment is Horseshoe quarry as even the Covid hates it and won't go there.

1
 Michael Hood 28 May 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I'm going to have to go back and do it sometime to remind myself because I don't remember having to jam on the first overhang bit (and I quite like jamming).

 Lord_ash2000 28 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

> Any info on how long Covid virus remains on various rock types?

No one knows but it should be noted that the tests on various surfaces were for how long it's still detectable in a lab, not how long it is still viable for an transmissionable dose. 

I'm real life conditions I suspect the odds of catching from a surface someone else has touched outdoors is extremely slim unless you're licking holds someone just sneezed on.

Also I find having chalk on your hands significantly reduces the likelihood of putting your hands in your mouth. So really if you want to go climbing I'd go, the risk from surface contact is likely insignificant.

1
 Bulls Crack 28 May 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> It doesn't spread easily via surfaces - that's the latest CDC advice, take some sanitizer but the chance of the person having used that hold recently are so remote I'd not be concerned. Just avoid putting hands in your mouth as usual. 

Except that if you're seconding or doing the same sport route fo example there's every chance that the same holds will be used! What the transmission risk is? Dunno - not huge I suspect

Post edited at 10:44
 The Lemming 28 May 2020
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

>  Also I find having chalk on your hands significantly reduces the likelihood of putting your hands in your mouth. So really if you want to go climbing I'd go, the risk from surface contact is likely insignificant.

While Trad climbing I found it almost impossible not to use my mouth as a third hand when in tricky situations trying to place gear.

If you are going to catch Covid, you are going to catch Covid. You will probably pass/toutch more infected surfaces on your way to your chosen route than you ever will by playing on that route.

2
 earlsdonwhu 28 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

Perhaps the continuing dry weather and Covid threat will see renewed interest in some remoter, more esoteric, mountain crags well away from roadside honeypots?

 Offwidth 28 May 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

I didn't jam Hell Crack the first few times either and I quite like jams. The jamming way is a bit harder in my view.

 Offwidth 28 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

The BMC reported that initial US research indicates the virus doesn't last very long in direct sunlight.  

A news report of the source is here:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/inside-secret-dhs-lab-testing-how-long...

"What we have found so far is that sunlight seems to be very detrimental to the virus,” Dabisch explained. “And so within minutes, the majority of the virus is inactivated on surfaces and in the air in direct sunlight.”

Post edited at 15:28
 petemeads 28 May 2020
In reply to Offwidth:

I think you and Mike have no right to tick Hell Crack if you have not done it properly...

 Michael Hood 28 May 2020
In reply to petemeads:

Sounds like I'll have to do it twice and compare😁, question is do I jam first and then layback, or the other way round?

Roadrunner6 28 May 2020
In reply to Offwidth:

There was a report on the News today that you are 18 times safer outside compared to inside.

I think it comes from this study which we've known about for 6 weeks.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.28.20029272v2

 airborne 28 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

From HuffPost:
"Exposure to sunshine has been identified as one way of killing off the virus quickly. A study published in The Journal of Infectious Diseases found that 90% of coronavirus particles deactivated within 10 minutes when exposed to ultraviolet light from the midday sun.
Researchers simulated the intensity of the sun at 40 degrees latitude – roughly equivalent to Spain – and then examined viral particles in saliva left on surfaces.
In conditions mimicking the winter sun in Spain, 90% of particles were destroyed in less than 15 minutes, while in conditions simulating summer sun, the virus lasted 6.8 minutes, the Times reported. It had previously been suggested that the virus could last on surfaces for up to 72 hours, so this is quite the reduction.
It’s not the temperature that kills the virus (the World Health Organisation says the virus spreads in both hot and cold climates), rather the ultraviolet light. "

In reply to airborne:

> From HuffPost:

> "Exposure to sunshine has been identified as one way of killing off the virus quickly. A study published in The Journal of Infectious Diseases found that 90% of coronavirus particles deactivated within 10 minutes when exposed to ultraviolet light from the midday sun.

> Researchers simulated the intensity of the sun at 40 degrees latitude – roughly equivalent to Spain – and then examined viral particles in saliva left on surfaces.

So 10 minutes in the midday sun in Spain will dactivate it.  That'll be about three years in Scotland then?

 Misha 28 May 2020
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Mountain crags are in Scotland (banned), Wales (banned) or the Lakes (sort of banned by the locals)... With the weather like it is, I’d normally he’d somewhere like Cloggy and it would actually be busy there. The Welsh Government has other ideas...

The other issue is we are limited to day trips at the moment. In theory I could go to the Lakes but that’s a lot of driving in one day and a mountain day out is always a long day even without the drive.

Post edited at 20:58
 Misha 28 May 2020
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Yes but on a serious point I wonder whether the exceptionally sunny spring and the long days with the sun about as high as it will get now are helping.

In reply to airborne:

That's amazingly good news. I think I'm right in thinking that there's a still a lot of UV light when it's overcast, so this will not just depend on direct sunlight. ???

Post edited at 20:53
 Offwidth 28 May 2020
In reply to petemeads:

I've climbed it three different ways so I guess two don't count. I tried the jam onsight but it didn't feel sensible for movement. I've evilly jammed plenty of cracks described as laybacks and vice-versa. 

Post edited at 22:01
 brianjcooper 28 May 2020
In reply to tjdodd:

> Research has shown definitively that around the roaches it stays for eternity. So best everyone avoids climbing there from now on. 

Nice try.

 rgold 30 May 2020
In reply to Bob Bennett:

Hate to be a Debby Downer, but I think y'all might be asking and answering the wrong question.

Transmission via surfaces seems to be a low risk---and more and more evidence suggests a very low risk. The main mode of transmission is via inhaled virus particles.   So if you have an infected but so far asymptomatic leader above you, breathing hard, then you might be standing in a veritable shower of droplets and aerosols for what? half an hour?  I don't think any outdoor analysis has even considered what happens when one person is directly above another person like this for a considerable time.  So who knows whether this is bad and if so, how bad?

If you are going to pick up the virus from a surface, it is as likely to be the rope as the the rock, as the rope will be hanging below Typhoid Mary as she huffs and puffs her way upward.  This suggests that the moment to apply that 70%+ alcohol hand sanitizer you've got in your chalk bag pocket is when the second arrives and the entire rope has just run through the belayer's hands.

Maybe the leader should be masked to mitigate the deluge on those below and the belayer and any spectators might be well-advised to stay off to the side.  Diagonal routes or ones that begin with a traverse off the belay take on a new unanticipated luster.

 LeeWood 30 May 2020
In reply to rgold:

yes but you're talking as if aerosol droplets are lead weights. If the leader is<= 2m above you then this argument holds some weight - otherwise the slightest puff of wind will carry it all away.

So - crags exposed to sunlight and wind - both helpful


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