UKC

The thread on 'to thread top or bottom' got me thinking: any rope nightmares over the years?

I once led Pickpocket at Stoney with the rope threaded through my leg loop only! And set off to second a single pitch route in Norway when my harness felt a bit odd - checking it I was only in one leg loop! I lowered off slowly and kept my legs together on the way down!

Others; a mate once abbed into Huntsman's Leap with the Fo8 attached to the gear loop on his Troll Mk V. Good job they were strong! The same day I watched a guy leading Headhunter, as he completed the crux one rope (the one through all the runners!) flopped to the ground - he hadn't tied on!

Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

45m rope - 50 m pitch and lots of wind with no line of sight- resulting efforts to make upward progress led my second to believe they were receiving rope tugs and should start climbing

In reply to Chris Craggs: everytime I open my rope bag.....

In reply to Chris Craggs: I once tied into the waist loop only. But I noticed and caught it before I climbed. I always check, check partener etc.

In reply to Chris Craggs: both times indoor + when climbing with a bunch of mates so not paying full attention (i now make a point of tugging/checking each climb)

threaded lower loop only so did a bit of a back wobble when being lowered off. Luckily was only 3rd clip or so as was showing a mate how to do a certain move.

few years before that - forgot to double back waist loop.. luckily noticed after first climb - was rushing to put up a top rope.

my regular climbing buddy + me now do double checks most of time/allow for tieing in concentration when standing at the bottom of a route.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

40m top pitch of a 4 pitch climb - one doubled 70m rope . This was combined with high winds and no line of sight. Luckily we both had mobiles.


Also got so tangled fannying around on kellys overhang i had to stand after the crux heaving rope through. People found this more amusing than the multiple falls.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Two I can remember. The first was leading a narrow chimney pitch on Chimney Route on Cloggy, when my harness (and rope) literally almost fell off. It was my first harness, a very early thing made by Davek, and it had a big metal clip like a car seat belt that had become caught on the rock in the chimney and opened. The tape of the belt was pulling through the clip with the weight of the gear and the rope so that my belt was sliding down over my hips - I just grapped the end of the belt in the nick of time before it was pulled through. I never used that harness again.

The second was when a friend of mine was leading Clapton's Crack, fortunately with a double rope, and one of his ropes fell off as he was getting near to the top of the pitch. He tried to convince me that he'd tied his knots properly!

In reply to James_D:

This isn't you is it by any chance?

http://www.pbase.com/image/67368622/original

Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

First time at Shepherds -- I turned up with minimal gear (it was '74) looking for a partner, and a guy with a funny voice and a little dog called Ado said he'd take me up a route. -- Yes it was Mac! The chosen route was Adam.

I had 100ft of No 3 hawser laid nylon rope, plus a waist belt and a few slings. He tied on direct. First pitch was fine, but the top pitch is 30m, and it's a way back to the belay tree. Some distance below the top he asks me to take the belay off and start climbing so he can reach the top. There was one runner on the (holly?) tree about halfway.

Apart from me saying that I'd seconded the odd VS in Northumberland, he hadn't a clue what I was like, and a slip by me would have robbed the Lakes scene of a legend, and a modern day legend would not have been born!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

>"any rope nightmares over the years?"

While on a route in the Calanque after some time and the obvious tell-tail rope movements, my out-of-sight partner called down with an easily recognisable tone of relief in his voice, but with words largely lost in the sirocco wind, "ok, blah blah blah".

To this I replied, "off belay".

It's was with some surprise (to me) that his very loud and clear retort made it quite clear I should put him back on belay toot-sweet as he had now committed to the crux!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

I was doing top rope reps on the bolts at Dunkeld and had just lowered off and was untying when my partner said he didn't want another go, so I jumped back on for a last rep of Silk Purse, which I completed, totally pumped, then lowered off. I then realised that I had in fact almost untied my figure of eight (the end through my harness was just poked once through the knot......) Fortubately it had held and a little testing proved it to be, perhaps surprisingly, "totally secure" like this. I was just glad I had not noticed my error when climbing barely in control!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

thats nearly as bad as mine, but not quite.

In reply to Chris Craggs:


That's really quite funny.

No amusing rope nightmares from me I'm afraid, except abbing main wall at Avon for the first time and finding it didn't 'go' in one 45m rope length, but with the stretch you could just get to a ledge near the base.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Good stories all.

On my first visit to Creagh Dubh my then GF and I arrived in the evening and did 2 pitches of Romp (I think), a VDiff corner, up to a tree. It was starting to get dark so she abbed off first, and got her lovely long oriental hair (almost waist length) totally jammed in the tuber. Probably about 5 minutes of struggling and swearing got it free without resorting to cutting, but five minutes is a long time in such circumstances, especially when the midgies are out.

My mate was leading Pain Pillar at Aberdour, at his limit, and was a fair bit out from his last runner near the top and obviously starting to sweat. I saw him struggle to get a big sling round a block, he took ages and I was sure he was going to come off. Then he placed it, shouted a desperate cry of relief, and climbed shakily to the top. Seconding, I came to the sling. He hadn't clipped it.

I took a bloke climbing to Polldubh once, he said he'd done a fair bit here and there, but not much leading. After some easy routes I got him to belay me on Clapham Junction on pinnacle buttress, which is, with the direct finish, the hardest VS in the world. I was only nudging HVS at the time, so success wasn't guaranteed. Anyway, I got up, brought him up on a tight rope and noticed that he didn't have much gear on his harness. "What did you belay me with?" I asked. He showed me a tuber hanging off a small accessory krab...

In reply to Lord of Starkness:

Out of interest the dog was named after Adrian Liddel.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Throwing my 60m rope off the top of the Douglas Boulder repeatedly and finding gravity had no effect on it and it was instead blown into a horizontal position. Probably quite normal for there.

In reply to Removed User:

my mate madmatts on here (i'm sure he wont mind being named, ha ha) abseiled at rivelin and got the daft dangly bit on his nepal hat stuck in his belay device. Serves him right for such a horrendous hat.

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Managed to get my foot caught tight in a 'cats cradle' of two 9mm's whilst pulling around the lip of the Sloth once. Jammed my backside in, rammed in a nut and spent the next 10 mins trying to free it. It's a nice view over Tittesworth from the lip

In reply to Chris Craggs: Mate seconding Tippler one day noticed in the middle of the traverse (at the same time as us on the ground) that his fig 8 wasn't properly tied and the rope was gradually pulling through as the leader took in any slack. There followed the best demonstration of one handed knot tying that I've ever seen. Mate then reversed the traverse and then got lowered off so that he could have a proper gibber on the ground.

Was rather scary to watch.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

In the early days of sport climbing in the UK, when it was still frequently conducted with double ropes - because that was what everybody had then - saw a fairly well-known climber discover, some way up Indecent, that one rope was merely stuffed through the front of his harness; the other was clipped to some of the gear, so quick gibber, sorted it out, tied the knot, no harm done. Lesson learned, one would have thought. A few months later the same guy dived for the belay at Malham, missed, and discovered the same oversight with the attachment arrangement of his (single) rope: impact with Catwalk, hospital, followed by considerable time in plaster.

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Recently seconding Demo Route at Sennen, I was thrutching the chimney and having a jolly old time until I look down to discover I am only tied into the lep loop. I went for the untie, retie option. Bit foolish considering in a chimney you dont actually have any positive holds and I was slowly sliding out of it. And the belayer nearly took in slack sharply as I was unattached. Turned out fine though, and I never told him because I didn't want him to think I was a numpty. It really is easier than you think to lose focus when somebody starts chatting to you as you're tying in.
Also once in Todra Gorge, it was Ramadan so we couldnt get our nightly beer so we thought, when in Rome, and ended up smoking hash every evening.
After two weeks of this, found myself at the lower-off of a route realising I couldnt for the life of me tie a figure 8 knot. Wasnt high, just mushy headed. For me its a cerebellum thing, I cant explain how to tie most knots I just do them, like riding a bike. The more I tried to think about it the harder it got. I dont really understand as it is a very very easy knot too...Took a few goes but got it in the end.

In reply to Chris Craggs:


done a similar thing (a couple of times) so now I've got into the habit of going down though the waist loop. If I accidentally only tie into one I'd rather it was my waist loop.

In reply to Chris Craggs: Three, all at Swanage:

Climbing over the roof of Squid at Fisherman’s Ledge, my foot pushed down onto one of my ropes and I went into desperate oscillation, with the ‘step up’ pushing me up and the pull on the rope jerking me down. Quite a passable imitation of a squid, I should imagine.

When climbing Sliproad at Subluminal, the rope slithered out of my harness on the final layback. It was my first Hard Severe, and a fall would have bounced me off the end of the ledge into the sea.

Halfway down a free ab into Boulder Ruckle my helmet strap caught in my figure of eight. I could breathe, but any slippage would have been catastrophic. The strap was too tight to undo and my partner had gone off round the corner, keen to get on a new line we’d spotted. The idea of fiddling around one-handed with a prussic loop tied long ago with a by now semi-fossilized knot to the back of my harness was a no-no. I was swinging slightly from the sudden halt and the half-height bedding plane was a tiny ledge, luckily not a roof, at that point. I built up the swings until I could touch the rock, kicked off and built them up some more and practiced one-handed hold grabbing. Then came the moment of truth, swinging in, letting go of the rope I’d had an iron grip on for the last few minutes and commit to the holds. After a quick tremble I sorted myself out, swung out and slid down to the boulders. After recounting the epic to my partner I felt hard done by when he made me lead the first pitch. I realised it was for my own good when I followed the second (of Fish Supper).

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Climbing at Stange when my right leg was in a cast and my left leg had a broken heel. This made climbing quite focussing. I was halfway up a route seconding when I noticed I hadn't done the waist band up on my harness. As I obviously couldn't stand hands free to tighten the waist band, I had to carry on climbing on my arms hoping I could finish without a rest. Oops.

In reply to gribble:


Is your nickname "Lucky" by any chance?

In reply to James_D:

Ha! Cheers for that mate!!! Didn't think you'd noticed! That hat ROCKS by the way...

In reply to Chris Craggs: Sat on the belay of the penultimate pitch of Zulu Demente on La Viscera at Riglos belaying a leader.

The rope slipped out from under my feet then loops of rope blew horizontally sideways. Said loops proceeded fly round the otherside of the tower and catch on all the protruding potatoes getting nicely lodged.

200m up, strong wind, stuck rope, leader miles above the last bolt blissfully unaware until I stopped giving him rope.

Pull pull pull one rope comes free but so does half the mountain side showering the thankfully empty and seriously over hung lower sections of the route with big rocks.

Rope #2 firmly jammed, two pitches from glory.

So with Simon Yates firmly in mind I reach for my ultra sharp rope cutting knife and realise I never climb with one. So I untie my end and with a short prayer to the god of wind and stuck ropes throw it with all my might into the wind. Thank fully this does the trick I now have about 25 m of 9mm culring round the edge of the tower and flapping in the wind and a very cross and increasingly pumped (it's very steep) leader. I slowly pull back in rope allowing the leader to progress and with great thanks I eventually get my end back tie in and pretend to be a competent multi-pitcher again.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Many moons ago I hitched down to the Lakes with my mate Alan, we were dossing under a boulder in Borrowdale and went up to Black Crag to do Grand Alliance. It was a lovely sunny day and we ere in shorts and Tshirts with our gear, clothes, sleeping bags all strewn on the ground at the botoom of the crag. Pretty soon we were on the top pitch and Alan had jus got to the bit where a couple of stoppers in opposition giving protection .. then the heaven opened .. within 30 secs we were drenched, within 5 minutes we were shivering badly, Alan retreated from the stoppers and joined me on the ledge. We rigged up an ab from a sapling, got down and tried to retreive the ropes .. locked solid .. by this time everything was soaked and evening was setting in .. we retreated to the bog behind the cafe at Grange and tried to warm ourseves up/ dry things with the warm air hand drier .. without to much success. In the morning we managed to get our ropes back and still being damp and cold decided to hitch back north .. managed to get a lift to Glasgow in a lorry where the driver had to drive all the way with windows wide open as our warm damp gear and bodies emanated what could only be described as stench!

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Climbed with a guy at Leeds Wall who is a 7b+ leader and climbs as smooth as silk, a real example of climbing excellence, someone to aspire to .... half way through the session I forgot how to tie a re-threaded figure of eight and messed it up 4 consequitive times feeling more embarrassed each time I got it wrong.
I think he lost his trust in me at that point

In reply to Chris Craggs: Had one years ago where I still can't work out whether I'd have died or not! At one point I got a good deal on a 100m Edelrid 9mm bi-colour rope which changed colour from red to white over about 10 feet in the middle by gradually changing the white/red flecking in the rope. First thing I did was cut it in half so 2 people could carry it as it was so bloody heavy, so I ended up with 2 ends which were basically the same colour for about 5 feet each.
Some time later we were doing an HVS, which was pretty near my limit at the time, and the way we'd uncoiled the ropes I was tying on with the 2 "middle" ends, using a Whillans harness which meant the ropes weren't kept separate while threading the loops. Basically, I made a bowline loop in rope "A", and rethreaded it with the end of rope "B", then made a loop in rope "B" and rethreaded it with the end of rope "A". Led the route by the skin of my teeth, nearly falling off several times, and it was only when untying at the top I found out what I'd done!
Well - would I have died or not??
Cheers
Andy

In reply to Chris Craggs:

During the past couple of years, when checking my partners' knot, there have been about five instances of them having tied the rope only through their leg loops...

Last week I saw someone attempt to start climbing having forgotten to tie on to the rope at all!! The belayer: "Are you going to tie on, then?!" Very amusing!

In reply to Andy Cairns:
Should hold fine, I've just tested this and it seems fairly solid.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Many years ago when I was a keen youth I chose to do the Sloth as my second HVS. Set off from the pedestal and dropped a long sling over the cheeseblock before launching out under the roof. Not wanting to hang around I didn't bother arranging any gear in the roof at all - this was well before Friends were invented and I didn't know whether any of my paltry set of nuts would fit. All was going smoothly and I got the sinker jam round the lip and cut loose. As I was hanging there I noticed something gently flapping around my knees.... it was my sling, which I'd somehow managed to clip into my harness knot and pull off the cheeseblock as I moved round. Realising there was no protection at all between myself and my second I threw as much of my body as possible into the top crack and waited for my heartrate to return to normal.

Must go back and do it again sometime.

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Not my story but one from the guidebook which includes Bollington Quarry (Kinder?). Its a while since I read it so details may not be accurate (but hey, its a climbing story...)

At the top of the routes is a dry stone wall which has to be climbed to gain a secure belay. Racing an on-coming thunderstorm, the leader managed to climb to the top of the wall, unfortunately getting one of his hexes wedged in one side of the wall. As he lay on top of the wall on his back trying to reach it, one got stuck on the other side of the all, pinning him down like a butterfly on a board.

The the heavens opened....

In reply to Andy Cairns:

It sounds like a sheet bend/bowline hybrid. I can see why it was scary at the time but it should be safe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheet_bend

Mehmet

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Looking down 40 or 50' to my belayer (Steve - bless him) on a sweaty route at Bosi, saying 'watch me here, I reckon I'm coming off' to see he'd taken the rope out of the stitch plate and was playing with a big pile of orange and blue spaghetti. My legs were almost uncontrollable!!! Somehow I managed to make the belay but he bought a lot of beer in Newlyn that night.

In reply to Chris Craggs: Some years ago Debbie and I did a long route at Ailfroide (on that big triangular crag overlooking the campsite). There was a six pitch ab to get down. We had two 45 metre ropes, which were SUPPOSED to be adequate. The first intermediate ab station was in the middle of a totally smooth wall, and only reached on the rope stretch. After I detached the ropes from the descender they sprang back up out of reach, but fortunately Debbie following was also heavy enough to create enough stretch to reach the chains. We were very careful not to let go of the rope ends when she arrived. I remember D. bursting into tears of relief when we finally got to the bottom.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

On the Cuillin ridge we were abbing down Kings Cave chimney on Basteir and I was first to go down. I had stupidly decided to go uber-light and had stripped my harness down to the bare minimum-no prussics. About 12' down at a point where I was hanging in space, I looked down and was extremely displeased to find that one strand of the rope had a knot in it. I had to brake madly with my left hand while yarding up miles of rope through my teeth to free the knot below the belay plate. Never leave home without your prussics!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Both abseiling f**k ups.

First, leaning back over a cliff about to abseil when the rope pinged out of the belay device as i had not put it through the crab. Grabbed the rope and pulled myself streight just in time.

Then a few years later i managed to abb off a route with the crab and plate attatched to the little bit of elastic under the main loop on the harnes ( the one with the plastic clip to stop the ropes moving ). God knows how it didnt come undone. Shook me up for days. Check, check and check again.

In reply to Chris Craggs:
I was once leading a route at Kendal Wall and the guy who was belaying me reached under his duvet and clipped the belay plate to his harness. However as he was lowering me down there was a sudden jerk on the rope and I plummetted towards the ground and was greeted by the sight of my belayers ATC and crab jammed against the first clip as I came to a halt a few feet or so off the deck. The reason why: when my belayer reached under his duvet and clipped the belay plate to what he thought was the belay loop he had in fact clipped it to one of the stitched in gear loops instead, which had of course, come adrift under the load!!!!

In reply to Chris Craggs:
When I was in college (in the 60's) a small group of us came down to climb in Llanberis Pass. I took an inexperienced fellow student up Slape. As he appeared into view on the crux moves he was really struggling and grasping at everything.
I almost froze with fear when I saw that the knot (bowline) to the krab on his belt had come undone and was almost detached. So I couldn't give him a tight rope and didn't dare tell him because he was in panic mode already.
Luckily he just made it up the pitch but almost filled his trousers when I pointed to the 'knot'.

In reply to Keith Morgan: They say you only learn from experience. It's just with climbing you have to hope the experience isn't fatal. It's interesting to see how many of these near disasters involve people belaying or abbing while attached to a gear loop. I can also remember looking down at my sticht and seeing it attached to a gear loop when bringing a rather nervous friend up an exposed pitch in the Alps. I didn't admit the error - she was nervous enough already. Ever since then I've had a rule that my belay device is only ever clipped onto the central harness loop. I notice lots of people take it off and clip it on a gear loop when it's not in use, but I can't help thinking that makes this particular error more likely.

In reply to Keith Morgan:

That reminds me of another I had forgotten about - at some big concrete climbing wall in Edinburgh years back. Top-roping (no lead venues back then) with a loop and krab in the end of the rope to speed things up.
I was teetering through the cux mantel over the final roof (about 40' up) and saw the knot and krab swinging in front of my nose - it must have come loose by catching on the lip of the roof!

I managed not to squawk, otherwise it would have been pulled out of reach, but held the mantel on one straight arm - grabbed it and reclipped. Phew!

Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:
I am reminded of the time I climbed the "Thorn" at Beeston with my then partner. He had lead the first pitch and brought me up. Then rather than feed the ropes through we untied and retied in at each end (whilst clipped into slings I might add). I put him on belay and he set off to lead the second pitch. He had moved up out of my line of sight when his end of the rope suddenly tumbled passed my eyes. "Er.. Dave?" I called up. "What?" he shouted back. So I told him. I heard a series of "Shit"s and "f--k"s gradually fade out of earshot as he nervously soloed out the rest of the route. I myself was more than a little concerned about how I was going to get off till another party came up and let me tie on with them.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Nasty One:

Dude at awesome walls forgot to finish his knot whilst chatting with his mate. Set off, topped out, shouted 'you got me', mate says 'yes', lets go and leans back. you know the rest. Very sad.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

I wonder if this thread shouldn't be essential reading for anyone new to climbing, especially those who think they are getting themselves into a 'safe' pastime?


Chris

In reply to julianwedd:

I always give a bit of 'helpful' tug once they have got the first bolt clipped - that way you know!

Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs: Noticed a certain continental gentleman pulling a new rope out of plastic bag who proceeded to tie on an d lead a climg. I tried to suggest that it may be useful to flake out the new rope a few times. Of course he new better than the stoopid Anglais. Off he went and when lowering down on the 8c sport climb, the most amazing knot jammed in his belayer's belay device while he was just about out of reach. I obviously did NOT laugh while I helped take his weight while others untangled a knot even you would have been proud to put in the next edition of your book.... . To others out their...flake your new rope out before using it....good luck.

In reply to Chris Craggs: Stanage,dangler,E2.Mancunian friend of mine,now 60, leads out to the lip,having done half the crux.Reaches down to pull the rope up to clip a runner.The rope drops from his hand and rips through the harness.Hadn't tied the knot.Retreated gibbering down to the deck and tied on.Fortunately he could do one armers.

Mitch

Got to the bottom of the overhanging abseil into the Black Zawn at Swanage when my climbing partner, not unreasonably, asked me where the rope was that should have been on my back! We had used the abseil rope of another team that were just topping out and they were about to pull up their rope and leave for the day. Fortunately, we were able to communicate with them and they lowered down our rope which, after considerable effort, we were able to lasso from above the crashing waves - otherwise it would have been a trouser filling solo up a wet and greasy Astrid (HVS), not a great prospect for an HVS leader...

I believe he now goes sailing

In reply to Chris Craggs: Many moons back one winters afternoon at Ravensdale I was belaying a friend who had come out climbing for the first time. I was sat on the top of the crag having lead one of the vS routes near Medusa. My man was following in near dark but eventually started calling out for slack saying he was being pulled off the rock, I kept paying the single rope out until he appeared through the gloom in a cloud of steam about 15 feet below having missed a runner buried in the crack now about 15 feet below his feet. there was about two seconds before he vanished into the night with a scream.He was unhurt but oddly he never came climbing again!I had big burn marks round my back from waist belay.Teenage kicks!

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Seconding the 1st pitch of Doorpost, I was getting a bit annoyed with my mate as he was taking in the rope really slowly, resulting in loops of slack. When I got to the stance I found that somehow, in between setting off and finishing the pitch he'd manage to tie an overhand knot between himself and me. He couldn't shout to me to get safe so that he could unclip his belay plate to sort it out and ended up somehow feeding the knot along the rope towards me.

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Looks like you've got the makings of a little book here Chris.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Just the other week I belayed at the top of a crag a guy climbing an e2 while i was anchored by my gear loop!... and he fell... thank good it didn't go - mind you - i'll never be doing that again - almost had a heart attack when i noticed!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

A couple of Brummie mates got benighted on Blind Faith, Llanymynech in the 70s, when the development of the crag started. Roger, frightened and convinced that his single rope wouldn't reach the ground doubled from the half-height belay, threw down an end and pulled up a second rope. It was twilight and the ropes were unfortunately identical. He threaded an end through the belay and tied it to the end of the other rope, then heaved the whole mess of rope off. When he reached the ground he found, as you will have realised, that he'd tied the two ends of the same rope together...

Had a series of nightmare abseils on the Midi-Grepon traverse last summer, culminating in most of our ropes jamming - started the route with two 60s and ended up with about 23 metres left. We had to do three (of necessity shortish) abs on that bit of rope in the dark and off single piece of gear (we were retreating off the route), and the following morning we had to do a few more abs to get round an unexpected crevasse. Who needs long ropes, they just jam all the time...

Once started up a route only to see the rope slipping out of the harness - turned out I'd forgotten to rethread the figure of eight. Embarassingly, I had just spent a while explaining various fancy knots to my second!

In reply to Joolz:

Anyone with a modicum of sense would have belayed to the left of your second to keep things in order. You could have organised the stance so they had to set up to the left though - some folks need showing the way!


Chris

In reply to Joolz:

The only thing you have to complain about there, as far as I'm concerned is him putting his ropes over yours. And for that you should have bollocked him and made him put them under... However, you often have to share belays. You can't expect everyone to wait till you've vacated a stance before they start the pitch.

In reply to jon:
I've shared ledges and the like in the past, but this ledge is a little slim for a belay with a crach just screaming at you to use it on the left. With my second leaving the crack for the other guy, we would have had slim pickings on the right, plus, I was worrying about this next lead since the walk in, so he probably had that in his head when he set the belay up.
However, there was plenty to choose from at the bottom to make up a sitting belay for this chap... waiting for my second to get online and agree to that point maybe?
I think we were also far too British about it and only complained when we were out of earshot, leaving the complaints for the pub and online!
Still, things there for us all to learn.

In reply to Joolz:

Yes, I was wondering why you didn't point out the error of his ways... being 'too British' is a problem! I know it's all too easy to point out things in retrospect, but Chris has a point. If you'd pre empted his arrival by positioning your second to the right - still using the crack on the left, but lengthening the belay, he would have automatically have gone to the left. The ledge looks plenty big enough to me - as you say, he could have sat down, even. The complete thoughtlessness of some people amazes me sometimes.

In reply to jon:

If the second team were as hot on the heels of the first as he suggests, I would simply have asked them to give us a head start. Nothing worse than being held up anyway.

Mind you we waited for two hours at the the foot of Bare Blaeber on Lofoten to give a team of three ahead of us a good start, and still caught them up on the fourth pitch (of 8).


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Ah, there's the difference, Chris. You 'asking' them and someone else asking them are two different things!

In reply to jon:
I take it you're persistent or even insistent in your 'asking'?

In reply to Joolz:

No, that was directed at Mr Cragg's more impressive physique!

In reply to jon:

No matter how you look at it, this is clearly unacceptable practice! Perhaps the first guy to the ledge should have said something to git who arrived after, but you got to remember that when the first guy set up the belay, his own climbing partner wouldn't even have set off so how could he possibly preempt someone else also wanting to use the ledge?!

In reply to MrH:

I agree it's unacceptable, but if you read joolz's post you'll find that he was aware of the other team, and had even tried to get away from them without success lower on the route, therefore pre emting the arrival of the leader by positioning themselves to the right (knowing also that the route set off to the right) would have been the way to go.

In reply to jon:

However, as it was your good self that was belaying, you will have already realised that!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

30m below the top of Royal Arches, hanging from a bolt belay in a sea of blank granite, wind whistling up the wall, my friend and I try to pull the ab ropes. Nothing budges... no big deal, there's a team above, we'll shout up to free the ropes...

5-minutes of "CUT OUR ROPES FREE!!" ensues.. no results, arse.

I rigged it, I get to go up. There's 20m of free slack so I tie it between me and the belay (death-loop backup) then set off up the jammed rope. My death-loop pulls tight and I'm faced with the choice, untie it and continue up a rope someone may now be trying to free or shout again.

No brainer... "Free my ropes when they're unloaded!!"

Muffled reply: "ffmmf.. bffllr... OK... frmmmg rpfs"

Arse. Did they hear me right? Did I hear them right? Am I going or a 40m factor-2 any second?

I rush to clip my belay device on and get the hell down the ropes to the safety of the bolts and in doing so clip it wrong... slumping onto my Prusik I take a couple of deep breaths, set things right then get down to the bolts. A moment later the ropes drop, my heart rate takes somewhat longer

Never likely to be lethal but very scary considering the exposure and certainly a nightmare!

jk

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Yosemite, mid October, short days, H and I are hurrying down towards the abseils of the East Ledges descent having climbed the West Face of El Cap in a day. I've been down there before, but twenty years earlier - nothing seems familiar. And it's now dark. And we don't have a light. I locate an anchor and set off down on our 50m ropes - and come to the end of the rope in the blackness. I swing around a little, feeling for anything that feels like an anchor, but find nothing. The idea of prussicking back hasn't yet occurred to me and I'm feeling just a bit worried - the un-knotted ends of the ropes in my right hand...

Out of the darkness I hear, very quietly, "...over here...". I swing rightwards a bit further to find a climber about to abseil down from the anchor I was searching for. It's on the absolute stretch of the rope that I reach him. He grabs me and clips me in, then disappears. With a premature sigh of relief I let go of the ropes... too late - they catapult into the darkness. H comes down and I grab her and clip her in keeping a VERY tight hold on the ropes...

Did I miss a belay?

In reply to Chris Craggs:
A pair of guys in front of me leading a gear placement fest on Manchester Buttress at Stanage on a single rope. The leader effectively tied himself to the crag with rope drag but luckily he'd just made the ledge after the traverse right. The guy untied and scrambled off and I passed their gear down to them with the advice to try it again when they had double ropes.

In reply to jkarran:


...a 40m FF2 down a granite slab - not lethal... I think you might have been wishing it'd been lethal when they told you what bits were missing!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Set off on a via ferrata once with only one leg loop on. I had stopped for a slash and failed to put the harness back on properly.

Rope related I can't think of any big cockups, except an abseil into the unknown after failing to take the correct descent from Bispen in Romsdal. A 60m single, an overhang, a wobbly boulder as an anchor and no idea if the ropes got to the bottom made it a formative* experience.

We got down before it was completely dark though, so it doesn't count as an epic.

*good introduction to the realities of multi pitch climbing.