UKC

I've been up to East Raven crag langdale a couple of times recently and I've done a couple of routes that were absolutely outstanding, but only given 2 stars. The first route was Baskerville VS 4c and everything about it was brilliant - the rock was solid, moves interesting, gear good. It was quite high in the grade I thought, but a month later it stands out as one the best climbs this year. 

Earlier this week I was up there again and I did the route next to Baskerville, the Chopper HVS 5a and again it was fantastic. High in the grade again (I've done easier E1's) and it took a bit of problem solving to unlock the sequence, but it was all there. A couple of mate's seconded the route, one of whom is an indoor climber mainly (up to 7b+) and he said that he was baffled by one of the moves and started to get pumped, but was left absolutely buzzing afterwards. 3 star classics!

So what routes have other people done that you think worthy of 3 stars, but that have 2 or less.

I proclaimed Silver Crack (HS 4c) to be three star upon topping out yesterday. Maybe it’s just the relative shortness of it that stops it? Proper grovel and fun for all!

It's a great route, I remember thinking of escaping onto the E1 to the left as it looked easier to make upwards progression. It must be 15 years ago and I remember it clearly.

Detergent Wall (HVS 5a). As good as South Face Direct (VS 4c), but harder and bolder

Upgrade from ** to ***

Steve

I see that on the only occasion I did it (over 50 years ago, March 69) it was given V Diff. The only comment in my logbook is: 'Quite a hard V. Diff.' 

I frequently tell anyone who'll listen that Climacteric (VS 5a) is the best route at Wild Cat and one of the best limestone routes in the peak. Easily worth 3 stars. I guess the lack of an obvious "line" relegates it to two stars but the climbing is really excellent.

That sounds like a good route, I'll add it to the list! 

So it's as good as or better than Cataclysm (HVS 5a)?

No stars (as yet) but it hasn't appeared in a guidebook yet For Michèle (6a) is a Portland classic at the grade. 

Fresh Air (6a) has  so many great moves and sequences and is some of the best climbing I've done at that grade including a short stint on mallorcan limestone. *** Sport route for sure

Nice!

Hi,

Done those two routes a couple of times...you’re right, lovely routes and great location of course.

Maybe they need to be a bit longer to get the extra “star”?

Should that matter? I get that the top part of both routes is just a scramble, but there's 20m of ace climbing up to that point. There's 3 star routes on grit half that length.

Think I’ve done Baskerville every time I’ve been to the crag so I guess I agree really 😀

The routes to the left it are good fun too....

It is a bit anticlimactic though. You pull through that tricky, slightly necky rockover into the scoop and then... 15 metres of scrappy mod? If it finished at the scoop it'd probably be solid 3* but it doesn't. 

I'd say it's pretty much my definition of 2 stars: some brilliant climbing, let down slightly by other factors.

I see your point. I personally see it as a bit of pleasant scrambling that increases exposure and improves the view as an added bonus before the top. If it was loose or grassy I'd agree, but for me it doesn't detract from the route.

I guess only having 2 stars will keep the queues down

Lorraine Direct on the Mot. I sort of get why it's 2* as it is only one pitch but that pitch is one of the most enjoyable, at the grade, I've done.

In a characteristic psyching out by the grandeur of Gogarth, we went to climb on Holyhead mountain, and Cursing VS 4c ** definitely deserves three stars. The moves on the flake are brilliant, and the relative amount of exposure is enjoyable.

The Onedin Line (VS 4c)

Much better than all of the classic 3* VS's in this area. 2 pitches, next to the sea, quiet and no polish, what's not to like?

Col.

I’m tempted to agree. Not done that much on slate mind but it’s certainly a very good route.

They really are both very good but don’t tell anyone or everyone will be going there 

Blimey. The Onedin Line is a bit of an odd one for a thread of this title. The route is OK, quaint & in a picturesque setting (tho' less so now). I can think of maybe more than a couple of hundred routes of substance more deserving...

Haha. The thread is about 2* routes that should be 3*. For me that route totally fits that category. A far more satisfying outing than the 3* VS’s in nearby Trowbarrow. I live in the area, and have climbed on every crag here, Jack Scout is a good crag and the Onedin is the best line.

Kind regards,

Col.

Ex-resident. I too have done loads of stuff (major & 'minor' crags). Interesting that you should compare the line with 3 star stuff in Trowbarrow. Really?

Haha! Um... That it's covered in yew trees and working out where to top out is... both anticlimactic and problematic? Also - it's near Trowbarrow, and it's not even half as good as Jean Jeanie. 2 stars is generous. Also, it's probably not as good a line as Brant's Little Brother on the same crag at the same grade.

Baskerville is ace - I've not done Chopper, but I imagine it's equally good. But, I always understood stars were given out something like this:

* = worthwhile

** = amongst the best of the crag

*** = amongst the best of the area

But, Baskerville and Chopper are on the shortest wall at Raven Crag, in the context of Great Langdale. The climbing is excellent, but the competition is White Ghyll to one side, Bilberry Buttress and Mendes at Raven and all the glory of Gimmer and Pavey, etc. to compete with. So... ** seems accurate to me.
 

A few suggestions off the top of my head:

Hollow Earth (HVS 5a) - *** on UKC, but only ** in the Lancashire Rock guide. It's definitely up there for best in class at Trowbarrow and in the whole Silverdale/Carnforth area. In fact, it's probably one of the best HVS routes in Lancashire.

Dawn (HVS 5b) - best HVS in Wilton 1.

Via Media (S 4a) - brilliant Severe. Feels really interesting and sustained at the grade.

Kennel Wall (S 4a) - Again, brilliant at the grade and best of its grade on the crag.

Oh...! And Thomas at Wallowbarrow! Is there a better severe in the Duddon?! It's one of the best severes in the Lakes, so ***!

Also (from Trowbarrow) Javelin (E1 5b) - really great journey up the Assegai Wall. And is there a better E1 in Silverdale?