UKC

Hi heading to pembroke next week and looking to give some of the E4's a bash.

Can anybody reccomend any safe ones?

Thanks!

In reply to Jackob:

Is sustained but safe climbing not what Pembroke is famous for? 

In reply to Jackob:

Tangerine Dream E4 6a is about as safe as they come. You could probably build a solid belay literally anywhere on the entire route with bomber cams and wires absolutely everywhere. Whether you can hold on for long enough to place the gear is another question though...

Poisoned arrow E4 6a is also pretty safe and a fair bit easier.

In reply to Jackob:

Bloody Sunday, easy at the grade.

In reply to Jackob:

Most of them are safe for E4s...

In reply to Jackob:

Can't think of many that aren't safe, and if they're not it'll be obvious.

Having said that, at least 2 people have hurt themselves on tangerine dream by wires unzipping from the bottom. Cracks opening up inside is something to be aware of 

In reply to Jackob:

Lots of luck to you, and I hope you get some good help on here (I hardly know Pembroke; and anyway E3's my limit), but my pedantic soul is always bemused by people asking for "safe E4" recommendations (or any "safe" climb) ..... there's no such thing..... how about "relatively safe"?

Thanks, non-pedant's!! (apostroffy added for annoyance)

In reply to Jackob:

I have similar ambitions and limited knowledge of pembs, so it would be good to hear what you get on and how it felt

In reply to Pedro50:

Bloody Sunday may be easy for the grade but I wouldn’t call it safe. You have to go a long way off the deck on sloping often greasy holds before you get the first runner

In reply to Jackob:

Star Wars is safe as long as you are competent at placing fiddly gear and carry loads of runners, though you could fall some way on the rope stretch. A good choice if you love old school face climbing.

Tangerine Dream is safe, but easy to fall off the crux if you place too much gear.

Poison Arrow is very safe and low E4. Again the gear is pumpy to place.

Trevalen Pillar has a safe crux, but is bold above the possible belay ledge.

Mother Night is safeish but hard and strenuous

Brave New World is safe and low in the grade if you're good at jamming and it's dry.

Ghostly Galleon, BNW's neighbour, is also safe but a bit harder.

Rising Tide is great but pretty bold. Leave it till you've done a few others.

Bloody Sunday is ok for the grade, but you could slip off the bottom if it's damp.

In reply to Jackob:

Test Case and Pleasure Dome are tough, safe E3s, If you get up both clean, then you are ready for Pembroke E4s.

In reply to John Alcock:

I remember taking quite a public whipper off Test Case with Jo Mac at an Easter weekend and thinking it was TOUGH... Definitely a good one to get your eye in.

In reply to Jackob:

Olive Branch on Mowing Ward East Face is pumpy, very safe and very good.  Possibly a harder pembroke E4 but might be a useful one for a few reasons - don't think it gets bird banned, afternoon shade if hot, imagine quick to dry and think you can still climb there when other areas are closed for firing.

In reply to Jackob:

Poles Apart on Rusty Walls. Probably not E4. Steady,  pumpy, climbing with good gear. 
Tragedy and Mystery is ok
Rising Tide, again is ok. Gear where you need it
Tangerine Dream is often wet and stays wet for a good while.
I can think of plenty of E3s that should be E4.
Romany at Trevallen for example.  Hard committing climbing that you really can’t fall off.  people will probably laugh at me now.

good luck. I can’t wait to get down there.

In reply to Ram MkiV:

Wallbanger (E4 5c)

In reply to PaulTanton:

I'm laughing, but only because it's incredibly UKC to respond to a request for safe E4s with an unsafe E3!

In reply to Jackob:

Weird to see people still perpetuating the myth that E4s are only "safe for E4". The default in Pembroke is well protected lines. Here are a few I've done.

Loads of gear:

Downward Bound, under the Influence, The Castle

Poisoned Arrow, No Man's Land, St Govans

The Fascist and Me, Trevallen

Safe but require a little care:

Bloody Sunday, Huntsman's Leap (Soft at E4, a little care with ropework and runner needed in first 10m)

Tangerine Dream, St Govans (good gear, but easy to place badly in a widening crack)

Trevallen Pillar, Trevallen. Best done in 1 pitch, first part safe, second pitch has a runout from the belay but essentially safe.

Suspense, Stennis Ford. Steady climbing needing a little care on the first pitch.

Not so safe:

Star Wars, Stennis Head. Low in the grade but quite a few fiddly runners.

The Rising Tide, st Govans. Relies on pegs and a few not great wires. Not hard for an E4, but not totally bomber gear.

In reply to Jackob:

At the Castle there are some routes upgraded from E3 which are soft, safe and very good as far as I remember: Out For The Count, Under the influence, Over the Hill. 

In reply to Robert Durran:

I wouldn’t say Over the Hill was ‘safe’, when compared to other Pembers E4s  It’s well protected higher up but there are some moves low down with not much gear and a potentially nasty fall onto spikey rocks.  I also thought it was pretty burly, certainly not E3.  It’s good though.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I have to say that the blanket 'Castle E3 regrading' was actually made by me back in 1995 for the first time in print although it wasn't even remotely controversial at the time, so much so that the routes seamlessly adopted their position as 'high in the grade' at the next grade up.

Alan

In reply to John Alcock:

I'm sure you're right as long as it is dry.  My partner had a nasty tumble from the start when it was damp.  Fortunately, she wasn't badly hurt but the tide was on its way in and it could have been very awkward...

In reply to Jackob:

I have only attempted to lead two e4s at Pembroke: Star Wars and Bloody Sunday. Both felt fine to me and went very well.

 
However, both are run out at the start. Bloody Sunday has quite hard moves low down above gear but then reasonably hard moves a little higher that are poorly protected. It is also greasy so get on it in good conditions probably late in the day. 
Star Wars was easier at the start but very run out. I thought the gear was rubbish low down but that may be down to me being rubbish at placing small and fiddly gear or maybe I missed something . The climbing was ok though and not too hard. Both immense climbs and I would highly recommend. I think if you can get 15 metres up either of them you will probably do them. 

In reply to Dave Garnett:you have to pick the right moment for St Govans  East: I have done all the routes there and it can suffer dampness first thing in the morning and it’s not a good place in humid weather: Brave New World is steady on an outgoing tide with an easterly breeze but Ghostly Galleon is tough enough without the hinderance of slick rock and dampness

In reply to kevin stephens:Mythical Monster is a steady tick at E3 as well

In reply to John Alcock:I would not consider Pleasure Dome as a safe E3, it’s strenuous and intimidating and considerably harder than Test Case and way more intimidating and can easily psyche people out. People need to broaden their horizons: Play Misty For Me, is a pleasant delicate proposition on Misty Walls

In reply to John Alcock:Zeppelin would be a better choice than Mother Night?

In reply to Oscar Popels:

It is now I hope. Back in the 90's a friend of mine was helecoptered off after pulling off a large block (he was actually climbing over it). He said it was the size of a small car but I reckon it was more the size of a fridge.

In reply to Gary Gibson:

I think this was our main lesson.  It just never occurred to us that either of us would fall off (those were the days!)

In reply to DaveHK:

Indeed. Having grown up in the Lakes routes in Pembroke always seemed incredibly obvious to protect. Even the more runout stuff that doesn’t rely on fixed gear tends to be runout from decent gear. It’s easy to get into trouble though, because it’s too easy to push on when you’re pumped or not place gear properly because you’re pumped. I remember Ross Jervis falling pretty much the full length of Mother Carey’s off the top of Star Gate. He just kept going for it, but he couldn’t stop to place anything!

Pan (E4 6a) is a good one, as is Mother Night (E5 6a).

In reply to Tom Briggs:

I did a similar thing on Star Gate. Although not as far as you describe. Then had to do an epic sideways abseil to get the gear. Not my finest moment. 
 

To the original poster - do not rule out the well protected e3s of which there are many at Pembroke and Star Gate is one of them. 

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

Under the Influence was E4 when I did it with my brother in 1983

In reply to Jackob: I remember Meet the Monster tonight in Hundsmans feeling relatively safe but obviously very conditions dependent , however I was going as well as I ever have, did Pleasure Dome just before and Witch Hunt after ( the peg was still in place then) a lot of this is very subjective depending on  the climbers strengths. I was always better on thin walls and found Star Walls fine but wasn’t able to hang on seconding E4s on the Castle

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

I remember that. It was not long after that I did them. Seemed not too bad, but maybe that was because I was expecting them to be ok!

In reply to Gary Gibson:

I am sure it was, but that wasn’t what it was given in the 1985 guidebook.

Alan

In reply to Wil Treasure

Did it used to be E3? I did it before I had done any E3's and found it ok. Having said that, I did find it a bit more in the head when I did it again older and wiser.

In reply to profitofdoom:

Honestly I think that a good percentage of mid E-numbers are a lot safer than any vdif one can name. The simple reason being that if you fall, you are always hitting something on a vdif very quickly, whereas if you fall on a typical vertical/slightly overhanging E4 with plenty of pro, you are not hitting anything.

Also, I don't really think that "relatively safe" is necessary. In common parlance, adjectives can be used perfectly correctly without always having to have an accompanying adverb to further clarify them because the adjective is interpreted in relation to the surrounding language. Nobody on UKC is ever going to think that "safe" means "with no possible risk whatsoever" because that's not a reasonable interpretation (for anything in fact!).

In reply to Robert Durran:

Always E4 in the time I've been climbing, but it's certainly one of those routes that's easy when you're confident, and harder if you're hesitant! I wouldn't be surprised if it had been E3 in a previous guide.

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

It was graded E3 at first: bearing in mind I have done nearly 650 routes in Pembroke and was the Rock climbing news editor for High Magazine at the time and got routes reported to me, I think have a fairly sound knowledge 

In reply to Gary Gibson:and written two guidebooks to the place

In reply to Jackob:

I know it's E3 but I found this harder than Poisoned Arrow and about as hard as Bloody Sunday, though it was greasy when I got on it.

Zeppelin (E3 5c)