UKC

/ Scoop Wall abseil point

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robw007 - on 12 May 2018

Climbing at Stoney last weekend and noticed the ab point off the trees at the top of Scoop Wall has been stripped.  Just wanted to check if anyone knows if there is an issue before replacing the tat?

Michael Hood - on 12 May 2018
In reply to robw007: you could always walk down, it's not that difficult

 

11
flowerpot - on 12 May 2018
In reply to robw007:

Also gone from top of Desiree

Pedro50 on 13 May 2018
In reply to flowerpot:

Thread is becoming a hot potato.

Jon Stewart - on 13 May 2018
In reply to Michael Hood:

> you could always walk down, it's not that difficult

Do you have an issue with replacing the tat? 

Can anyone explain or justify the view that it's somehow better to walk rather than abseil after completing a trad route? 

im off - on 13 May 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Funny you should ask....

We were stood at the bottom of Inquisitor last Saturday and a bloody big rock wizzed past dislodged by a team abbing. Should have had me helmet on. Think it was robw and pal. 

Wear a helmet at Stoney.......

1
Jon Stewart - on 13 May 2018
In reply to im off:

> Funny you should ask....

> We were stood at the bottom of Inquisitor last Saturday and a bloody big rock wizzed past dislodged by a team abbing. Should have had me helmet on. Think it was robw and pal. 

> Wear a helmet at Stoney.......

Good advice - but if the cliff top is loose, you have to cross more of it if you walk off. I don't see that it minimises the risk of rockfall.

3
im off - on 13 May 2018
In reply to Jon 

Yup

Michael Hood - on 13 May 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Do you have an issue with replacing the tat? 

Nope

> Can anyone explain or justify the view that it's somehow better to walk rather than abseil after completing a trad route? 

Hmm, I think each circumstance needs to be assessed separately. Depends on the state of the descent path, exactly where the abseil goes, likelihood of dislodging rock, fauna (especially if rare) considerations.

But you know all of that.

I suppose I'm biased in that I've got a long trad history from when abseiling was when you couldn't walk down. The wall/sport bred climber will probably have a bias the other way as they'll be more used to lowering off.

For Scoop Wall you'll miss out on the joys of Tiger Trot (VD) or the through cave

2
In reply to Michael Hood:

> I suppose I'm biased in that I've got a long trad history from when abseiling was when you couldn't walk down. The wall/sport bred climber will probably have a bias the other way as they'll be more used to lowering off.

I don't think people should walk down just because of tradition, they should do it where it is a sensible choice in light of all the current considerations at a particular crag. Sometimes abseiling off is harder and actually takes longer, and most climbers I know don't really enjoy it that much, but in many places it is easier and quicker. This shouldn't be held against it as a reason for not doing it though unless there is danger of compromising climbers coming up.

In places like Chee Dale avoiding the crag-top vegetation has become increasingly important. It was always normal to walk down from the top of Plum Buttress after Sirplum (E1 5b) but there is now an adequate 45m abseil from the tree which is far preferable to walking down, not just because the nettle-covered slippy grass walk down was a pain, but because it means far less disturbance in an area where we have be warned about disturbing the flora. It would be better if it was more sustainable than the botch of slings and tatty old crabs that it currently is though.

Stoney has not got the same considerations as Chee Dale but I would still say that the two abseil descents mentioned are good things and worth having in place (one is a big tree so you can still use it although that isn't great for bark damage). It would be nice if we could agree this as a community and actually take some more sustainable action to facilitate these abseil points rather than having to rely on the ugly DIY versions that we currently have in many places. I noticed that the thread on Sirplum is a solid chain now since it is also the lower-off for the current version of Sloe Gin (E6 6b). This strikes me as a good thing.

Alan

Post edited at 11:05
paul__in_sheffield - on 13 May 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Do you have an issue with replacing the tat? 

> Can anyone explain or justify the view that it's somehow better to walk rather than abseil after completing a trad route? 

Walking down descent paths at Stoney must be one of the facets of adventure which you’re not privy to....;-)

Michael Hood - on 13 May 2018
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH: getting to the top of Sirplum is still on my wish list

I think I'll be happy to ab, I seem to remember tales of the walk off being slippy scary and the top pitch of Little Plum (4c ?) possibly being preferable.

 

robw007 - on 13 May 2018
In reply to im off:

Yep sorry 'I'm off' you're right - it was us. The gully you come down is quite loose whereas Scoop Wall ab is just about free - also there is no tat on the tree - though of course this can easily be added - as can the tat to the Scoop Wall trees. 

Did you enjoy Inquisitor btw?

Frank the Husky - on 14 May 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Can anyone explain or justify the view that it's somehow better to walk rather than abseil after completing a trad route? 

It's one of those nonsensical views that equates struggling down hideous gullies with being a proper trad climber. Abseiling saves loads of time, allowing you to get more actual climbing done which is the whole point.

Misha - on 14 May 2018
In reply to Frank the Husky:

Not to mention massacring your feet in tight shoes and getting the said tight shoes muddy - or having to take your approach shows up, which isn’t ideal on anything hard.

I’m all for adventurous trad but I actually think that nice bolted abseil anchors would be a good idea in some places, for example where trees aren’t available. 

2
Jon Stewart - on 14 May 2018
In reply to Misha:

> I actually think that nice bolted abseil anchors would be a good idea in some places, for example where trees aren’t available. 

The solution might be to use something that looks rather like a bolt and serves precisely the same purpose, but is called something different, more traddy-sounding. "Bonnington anchor"? "Wilson belay"?

1
Adam Long - on 14 May 2018
In reply to robw007:

Worth a quick read of a previous thread here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/replaced_abseil_station_at_stoney-504671

I had a quick hour on a mini-traxion on Scoop wall last Thursday night. The tat was still in place (which links two trees and a substantial root) but the end loop had been cut and the rope partially untied. As I was a bit short on gear I retied it to back up my belay. My guess would be someone decided the biner was past it's best but couldn't get it off without cutting the rope. Lower down, the first thread is still the same one I replaced 8 years back.

Topping out here is not loose and the flora not particularly sensitive. The path along the top is less overgrown than I remember. There were also a series of fairly new and largely superfluous knotted ropes down the scramble section of the descent.

Tiger Trot was quite overgrown the last time I did it. If I get chance this week I'll drop by and replace the tat. The tree is healthy and well-positioned, no need for bolts.

In reply to Adam Long:

I've got a load of static + rings, so unless anyone sees any reason why not (and so far no such reason appears to have been forthcoming) I'd be happy to head over and replace it.

Adam Long - on 14 May 2018
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Go for it, sure UKC will be happy for you do it on their time!

im off - on 14 May 2018
In reply to robw007:

Hi. Yeah it was ok. Not to loose . One or two rattley holds that looked like they' d been there a long time. Did scoop wall too. 

robw007 - on 15 May 2018
In reply to im off:

Good effort Guys - Scoop Wall is always worth the full shilling!

How did you get down .....??

Looks like the consensus is to replace it.  If Rob G gets there first then great - if not Ill get some static and set it up again.


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