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So I've got my SPA assessment coming up in a few weeks. I don't know many other people who've done it, and although I've looked at the sylabus, I feel I could benefit from any real-life words of advice from those who've been there and done it. It'd be helpful to know in more detail what exactly you did on the course, and what you think are the most important things to be really slick at.
I reckon it'll be the "solving simple climbing problems" I'm most likely to slip up on. Escaping from the system and rescuing a stuck climber, someone climbing past the anchor... Any others???
Finally, my assessment is based in Aberfeldy in Perthshire. Anyone got any ideas as to which crags we'd be likely to use?
I reckon it'll be the "solving simple climbing problems" I'm most likely to slip up on. Escaping from the system and rescuing a stuck climber, someone climbing past the anchor... Any others???
Finally, my assessment is based in Aberfeldy in Perthshire. Anyone got any ideas as to which crags we'd be likely to use?
In reply to plummet: Hair caught when abseiling.
Get slick at tieing off the safety rope, giving slack on the ab rope and the retying it and going back to lowering.
You don't need to escape from the system for the SPA.
Get slick at tieing off the safety rope, giving slack on the ab rope and the retying it and going back to lowering.
You don't need to escape from the system for the SPA.
In reply to plummet: Check all screwgates...twice! be slick with your rigging. don't be tempted to move your anchors for gear retrieval after the second has come up - you have to use the same anchors! keep things simple and don't get stressed when asked a question about what you've done. chances are the assessor is checking your understanding ofthe system you've used rather than it being 'something I was shown on my training'. provide your own justifications. did I mention to check all screwgates?
In reply to plummet: What you need is an SPA refresher course
Releasable abseil needs to be slick
Pick quality anchors
Chill out
Releasable abseil needs to be slick
Pick quality anchors
Chill out
In reply to plummet: +1 for chiilling out,
Nerves ruined my first attempt. Be confident in what you know.
Shaun
Nerves ruined my first attempt. Be confident in what you know.
Shaun
In reply to nastyned: No escaping from the system? Well that IS good news. What scenarios are we looking at then? Releasable abseil, abbing down to rescue a stuck climber, and...?
My training was about five years ago, by the way!
My training was about five years ago, by the way!
In reply to shaunmillar: Nerves in assessments are my biggest weakness too. Being a Perthshire lad Shaun, any ideas for good SPA crags in that area? I only know Dunkeld really, and I wouldn't say that's all that suitable for groups...
In reply to plummet: Follow Jez's advice, do a refresher. I wouldn't present myself for assessment until I knew I was going to pass.
In reply to plummet:
Releasable abseil, yes definitely.
Abbing down to rescue someone... is that in the syllabus? I didnt get tested on that
Get super-slick at releasable abseil... using both fig 8 (and its problems) and a belay (and its problems) for clients decent
Setting up top rope... static rope usage... do you NEED those three anchors or will you just be wasting rope which you could use setting up a TR on the climb next door?
Bringing up a second... oh shit he's climbed past a runner.
Keep rescues like this very simple rather than complex solutions
**WHY** are you doing it like that? <not telling you what you have done is wrong, but you should justify it.
K-I-S-S basically.
Also keep yourself safe at all times, THEN the client. After all, what use are you if you fell off whilst trying to rescue a client?
Releasable abseil, yes definitely.
Abbing down to rescue someone... is that in the syllabus? I didnt get tested on that
Get super-slick at releasable abseil... using both fig 8 (and its problems) and a belay (and its problems) for clients decent
Setting up top rope... static rope usage... do you NEED those three anchors or will you just be wasting rope which you could use setting up a TR on the climb next door?
Bringing up a second... oh shit he's climbed past a runner.
Keep rescues like this very simple rather than complex solutions
**WHY** are you doing it like that? <not telling you what you have done is wrong, but you should justify it.
K-I-S-S basically.
Also keep yourself safe at all times, THEN the client. After all, what use are you if you fell off whilst trying to rescue a client?
In reply to plummet: Into the last hour of my assessment through PYB and I was just starting to relax and enjoy the climbing on Tryfan Bach. The assessor sidled up and put a simple stuck / injured client scenario to me. My mind turned to mush and I garbled out some rubbish about a counter balanced lower to him. Fortunately I had built up sufficient rapport with him for his response to be "No !!! you would tie them off and go for help !", I acted suitably chastened and he still passed me. Also beware of being sand-bagged into selecting what appears to be a bomber boulder / thread anchor, only for the assessor to put a shoulder to it and show that it is anything but bomber. Good luck, try amd relax and enjoy.
In reply to plummet: just up the A9 is a good crag,Creag na h-Eighe (tullimet) which is as close to ideal as I have found.
gimme a shout if you fancy a ropes day there
gimme a shout if you fancy a ropes day there
In reply to plummet:
Just because escaping the system isn't under assessment it doesn't mean you won't be asked to do it to show a higher level of confidence and ability, plus it's super handy for you to know and not overly complicated.
I got stitched up when told to stand aside while my releasable abseil was being check by the instructor and group. I heard several carabiners being jingled and then asked to check my system before sending someone down, everything was how I left it (I'd done all the carabiners up anyway) however upon releasing the abseil I knew I'd been caught when my Italian hitch had been changed for a clove hitch. Check EVERYTHING! Also as above check the anchors my friend used a 5 tonne block that the instructor knew was a Logan stone.
Just because escaping the system isn't under assessment it doesn't mean you won't be asked to do it to show a higher level of confidence and ability, plus it's super handy for you to know and not overly complicated.
I got stitched up when told to stand aside while my releasable abseil was being check by the instructor and group. I heard several carabiners being jingled and then asked to check my system before sending someone down, everything was how I left it (I'd done all the carabiners up anyway) however upon releasing the abseil I knew I'd been caught when my Italian hitch had been changed for a clove hitch. Check EVERYTHING! Also as above check the anchors my friend used a 5 tonne block that the instructor knew was a Logan stone.
In reply to gg4419: we're your assessors initials PM?
In reply to Mike Conlon: I had the same scenario in my SPA training, however we had to recuse the stuck climber by prussiking up, clipping them to a short slong to your harness and abing off together.
In reply to plummet:
First day was personal climbing, expect to be jumping straight onto Severe routes, possibly at a new venue. A few relatively straightforward scenarios like your second asking for slack repeatedly (trying to climb past a runner as they can't remove it), or untying and going to the loo when you are at the top of the crag waiting to bring them up.
Second day was group work day. Rigging top & bottom ropes & releasable abseils. Solving problems that arise. Releasing the abseil in the event of tangles, rescuing a climber who is stuck on a ledge using an autoblock (although I think this is technically in the realms of additional knowledge), rescuing a stuck climber by going to them from a top-rope. I'd suggest on the group day making sure you set things up as for a group... Don't tie yourself into the system for top-roping and escape the system to rescue just because you think the assessor will want to see that. Keep to making life as simple as possible for yourself!
First day was personal climbing, expect to be jumping straight onto Severe routes, possibly at a new venue. A few relatively straightforward scenarios like your second asking for slack repeatedly (trying to climb past a runner as they can't remove it), or untying and going to the loo when you are at the top of the crag waiting to bring them up.
Second day was group work day. Rigging top & bottom ropes & releasable abseils. Solving problems that arise. Releasing the abseil in the event of tangles, rescuing a climber who is stuck on a ledge using an autoblock (although I think this is technically in the realms of additional knowledge), rescuing a stuck climber by going to them from a top-rope. I'd suggest on the group day making sure you set things up as for a group... Don't tie yourself into the system for top-roping and escape the system to rescue just because you think the assessor will want to see that. Keep to making life as simple as possible for yourself!
In reply to isi_o:
>expect to be jumping straight onto Severe routes, possibly at a new venue.
Oh, my GOD. You can't be serious? They expect an elite standard like that?
jcm
>expect to be jumping straight onto Severe routes, possibly at a new venue.
Oh, my GOD. You can't be serious? They expect an elite standard like that?
jcm
In reply to gg4419:
Arseholes that pull stunts like that shouldn't be allowed to assess IMO. Assessment should be about allowing people to demonstrate their competence in their own work rather than setting traps to catch them out!
> I got stitched up when told to stand aside while my releasable abseil was being check by the instructor and group. I heard several carabiners being jingled and then asked to check my system before sending someone down, everything was how I left it (I'd done all the carabiners up anyway) however upon releasing the abseil I knew I'd been caught when my Italian hitch had been changed for a clove hitch.
Arseholes that pull stunts like that shouldn't be allowed to assess IMO. Assessment should be about allowing people to demonstrate their competence in their own work rather than setting traps to catch them out!
1
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Why not?
There are a number of possible situations where it would be best to use a different set of anchors if you need to abseil to retrieve gear.
> don't be tempted to move your anchors for gear retrieval after the second has come up
Why not?
There are a number of possible situations where it would be best to use a different set of anchors if you need to abseil to retrieve gear.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Haha! I know... Looking at the OPs profile it's not likely to be an issue I suspect, but I've met people for whom it *really* has been...
Haha! I know... Looking at the OPs profile it's not likely to be an issue I suspect, but I've met people for whom it *really* has been...
In reply to plummet:
Screwgates... always check twice, once when finished rigging and once before use.
Dont over think it. It was always that'extra anchor' I added because I 'had time' that turned out to be bobbins.
Always rhink of easist solution i.e Foot stuck.. encorage them to wiggle it tjen just to remove shoe. One candidate spent 5 minutes trying to solve aCritical Belaying problem by a client by swapping belays/tie off instead of taking over the manual belaying by just using them as a direct belay.
My assessor praised me for the work I had put in between reassessments when really I had done bugger all except giving myself a good talking to and relaxing
My assessor liked geology and flora and fauna knowledge
Screwgates... always check twice, once when finished rigging and once before use.
Dont over think it. It was always that'extra anchor' I added because I 'had time' that turned out to be bobbins.
Always rhink of easist solution i.e Foot stuck.. encorage them to wiggle it tjen just to remove shoe. One candidate spent 5 minutes trying to solve aCritical Belaying problem by a client by swapping belays/tie off instead of taking over the manual belaying by just using them as a direct belay.
My assessor praised me for the work I had put in between reassessments when really I had done bugger all except giving myself a good talking to and relaxing
My assessor liked geology and flora and fauna knowledge
In reply to plummet:
I did my assessment out of Pitlochry with Stuart Johnston, we did Dunkeld for the personal climbing day and Kingussie for group climbing day.
I'd agree with what the others have said, just be confident in what you're doing, if the assessor asks you why, it's not necessarily that you're wrong, they're just checking you understand why you're doing it and not just following "instructions".
And always look for the simple solution to a problem first before launching into a full rescue!
I did my assessment out of Pitlochry with Stuart Johnston, we did Dunkeld for the personal climbing day and Kingussie for group climbing day.
I'd agree with what the others have said, just be confident in what you're doing, if the assessor asks you why, it's not necessarily that you're wrong, they're just checking you understand why you're doing it and not just following "instructions".
And always look for the simple solution to a problem first before launching into a full rescue!
In reply to plummet: Thanks everyone for your replies, this is mostly very reassuring. A refresher couurse would be good, but very expensive if you don't know anyone else wanting to do one, and there dont seem to be many in my area. I'm confident I can do all the things I need to, I just wanted to determine what exactly those things are.
In reply to isi_o: Don't tie yourself into the system for top-roping and escape the system to rescue just because you think the assessor will want to see that. Keep to making life as simple as possible for yourself!
Thanks Isi. So you mean, have someone else top-rope belaying, or direct belay with reverso onto anchor?
Thanks Isi. So you mean, have someone else top-rope belaying, or direct belay with reverso onto anchor?
In reply to plummet:
When I went for my assessment I was over prepared.
There was only 3 of us which made the whole thing much smoother and actually made it and incredibly useful experience in terms of learning new techniques etc.
Just relax, check all the gates and try and keep it all simple. If you do end up worrying though, don't worry, lol, the assessor is qualified to judge whether or not you're competent. If you fail, you're not ready, simple as.
If you do need to assist a stuck climber (last resort), tie off the belay, stick a prussik to the rope and climb up. Much easier than abbing all the time.
When I went for my assessment I was over prepared.
There was only 3 of us which made the whole thing much smoother and actually made it and incredibly useful experience in terms of learning new techniques etc.
Just relax, check all the gates and try and keep it all simple. If you do end up worrying though, don't worry, lol, the assessor is qualified to judge whether or not you're competent. If you fail, you're not ready, simple as.
If you do need to assist a stuck climber (last resort), tie off the belay, stick a prussik to the rope and climb up. Much easier than abbing all the time.
In reply to plummet: On mine I casually asked at the end of day 1 where we'd be headed on day two. With that info I spent the night checking where all the anchors were and preparing a bouldering session. I was actually amazed that none of the other candidates were doing the same. This really really paid off: first thing the assessor asked us was for a volunteer to run a bouldering session while the others starting rigging. Lesson is: time in recce, seldom wasted.
Oh - and if you're half way strong - stuck hair etc abseiling - just haul up on the safety line before you even think about releasing any lines.
Good luck!
Oh - and if you're half way strong - stuck hair etc abseiling - just haul up on the safety line before you even think about releasing any lines.
Good luck!
In reply to plummet: I'm seeing refresher courses for £30/40 on the MTA site.
Do read the Syllabus carefully; don't just gloss it. Stepping out of your harness is a good way to escape the system. Tidy rope work on abseils was important on my assessment eg don't just cob the whole rope down for an abseil, how do you get the abseil device back to the top etc. Look slick when coiling and uncoiling the rope.
Do read the Syllabus carefully; don't just gloss it. Stepping out of your harness is a good way to escape the system. Tidy rope work on abseils was important on my assessment eg don't just cob the whole rope down for an abseil, how do you get the abseil device back to the top etc. Look slick when coiling and uncoiling the rope.
In reply to plummet:
By reverso onto anchor are you implying guide mode? If so then stay away from this as then you have the lowering issue being a little more sensitive.
Basically to top rope you should "clip in" to the equalised loop and clip the belay plate in separate, easy to tie off and make yourself free, otherwise yes get someone else to belay and keep yourself free as much as possible.
Consider getting some cows tails made up, mine are old 8mm rope cut so that I could tie a figure of eight in both ends and one just off centre giving me about 2' and 3' of lanyard each, I attach to my belay loop with a mallion and have two quicklock crabs on the end, means moving around safely at the top of a crag is a doddle and quick.
As everyone else have said, think simple solutions and implement the quickly and efficiently but most important safely, enjoy it too, that way the stress and nerves will be lost in the moment.
> Thanks Isi. So you mean, have someone else top-rope belaying, or direct belay with reverso onto anchor?
By reverso onto anchor are you implying guide mode? If so then stay away from this as then you have the lowering issue being a little more sensitive.
Basically to top rope you should "clip in" to the equalised loop and clip the belay plate in separate, easy to tie off and make yourself free, otherwise yes get someone else to belay and keep yourself free as much as possible.
Consider getting some cows tails made up, mine are old 8mm rope cut so that I could tie a figure of eight in both ends and one just off centre giving me about 2' and 3' of lanyard each, I attach to my belay loop with a mallion and have two quicklock crabs on the end, means moving around safely at the top of a crag is a doddle and quick.
As everyone else have said, think simple solutions and implement the quickly and efficiently but most important safely, enjoy it too, that way the stress and nerves will be lost in the moment.
In reply to plummet:
Could use a reverso, or an italian hitch. In reality I'd suggest that there aren't many occasions when you'd want to belay this way if you were in a group situation, more if you were leading up pitches and getting someone to follow as your second. Either way, not having a belay device clipped into your harness or rope loop will make life easier for rescues. Also allows you to move a little more (within the constraints of being clipped to the anchor yourself of course) to get better visibility of what your client is up to and hopefully pre-empt any issues... Although if your assessor is like mine was they might make the issue continue to happen anyway
Could use a reverso, or an italian hitch. In reality I'd suggest that there aren't many occasions when you'd want to belay this way if you were in a group situation, more if you were leading up pitches and getting someone to follow as your second. Either way, not having a belay device clipped into your harness or rope loop will make life easier for rescues. Also allows you to move a little more (within the constraints of being clipped to the anchor yourself of course) to get better visibility of what your client is up to and hopefully pre-empt any issues... Although if your assessor is like mine was they might make the issue continue to happen anyway
In reply to Jimbob11:
Yes - good point about lowering issue...
Yes - good point about lowering issue...
In reply to plummet: To add what gear did everyone take for the SPA assessment?
In reply to Lukem6: Take a full rack. Make sure you don't forget to take your italian hitch though!
In reply to higherclimbingwales: left handed screwdriver to tighten bolts too.
In reply to jezb1: Yes, yes they are.
In reply to Lukem6:
In addition to rigging rack and static ropes, take some rope-protectors for the group day.
In addition to rigging rack and static ropes, take some rope-protectors for the group day.
In reply to timjones:
There was good reason behind it, my set up was very good and the discussion point raised was if working at a centre and you go to have lunch, don't assume that someone hasn't used your system, released the abseil and then set it up incorrectly. Lots have said check all the carabiners here but it's important to double check your knots too, how easy is it under the pressure of an assessment to quickly tie a clove hitch that an Italian. Best of luck on your assessment, relax and enjoy it, it's all part of the learning curve!
There was good reason behind it, my set up was very good and the discussion point raised was if working at a centre and you go to have lunch, don't assume that someone hasn't used your system, released the abseil and then set it up incorrectly. Lots have said check all the carabiners here but it's important to double check your knots too, how easy is it under the pressure of an assessment to quickly tie a clove hitch that an Italian. Best of luck on your assessment, relax and enjoy it, it's all part of the learning curve!
In reply to shaunmillar:
Challenging for anchors and a bit slopey/slippey at the top. I've heard of it being used for the personal combing day (a good spread of severes), but for the group day I think it'd be too problematic for assessors to want to use.
> just up the A9 is a good crag,Creag na h-Eighe (tullimet) which is as close to ideal as I have found.
Challenging for anchors and a bit slopey/slippey at the top. I've heard of it being used for the personal combing day (a good spread of severes), but for the group day I think it'd be too problematic for assessors to want to use.
In reply to timjones:
I think it's acceptable to do something like that so long as it's not held against the candidate when they don't notice i.e. used as a teaching point rather than a stick to beat them with.
> (In reply to gg4419)
>
> [...]
>
> Arseholes that pull stunts like that shouldn't be allowed to assess IMO. Assessment should be about allowing people to demonstrate their competence in their own work rather than setting traps to catch them out!
>
> [...]
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> Arseholes that pull stunts like that shouldn't be allowed to assess IMO. Assessment should be about allowing people to demonstrate their competence in their own work rather than setting traps to catch them out!
I think it's acceptable to do something like that so long as it's not held against the candidate when they don't notice i.e. used as a teaching point rather than a stick to beat them with.
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Would it be held against the candidate if they solved the problem by cutting the assessors abseil rope
> (In reply to timjones)
> [...]
>
> I think it's acceptable to do something like that so long as it's not held against the candidate when they don't notice i.e. used as a teaching point rather than a stick to beat them with.
> [...]
>
> I think it's acceptable to do something like that so long as it's not held against the candidate when they don't notice i.e. used as a teaching point rather than a stick to beat them with.
Would it be held against the candidate if they solved the problem by cutting the assessors abseil rope
In reply to timjones: Possibly, though I wouldn't like to find out!
In reply to Jamie B:
Towards the left hand side of the crag the anchors are not a problem.
the top can be a bit slippy after a rain but i have never had any problems.
works out better than polney for practice.
Towards the left hand side of the crag the anchors are not a problem.
the top can be a bit slippy after a rain but i have never had any problems.
works out better than polney for practice.
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
I think it would be worth the cost of another assessment to teach the assessor a short, sharp lesson about the potential pitfalls of setting traps to catch candidates out
> (In reply to timjones) Possibly, though I wouldn't like to find out!
I think it would be worth the cost of another assessment to teach the assessor a short, sharp lesson about the potential pitfalls of setting traps to catch candidates out
I had to to do an escape the system on my assessment only a couple of months ago, never had done it befor but was aware of what I needed to do so had no problem, it basically consisted of tieing off the climber to my belay plate, then exiting my harness which consisted of people laughing at me as I wigled and strugled to get out.
Remember a SPA venue should be walkable out form the top so losing your harnes while you go get help is not a problem.
Also when problem solving you have access to the top, it may be easier to tie off the belayer, run around to the top then absail to the casulaity then messing around trying to pussac up to them. Although expect to have to demonstrate pussacing at some point also.
Ross
Remember a SPA venue should be walkable out form the top so losing your harnes while you go get help is not a problem.
Also when problem solving you have access to the top, it may be easier to tie off the belayer, run around to the top then absail to the casulaity then messing around trying to pussac up to them. Although expect to have to demonstrate pussacing at some point also.
Ross
In reply to gg4419:
Ahhh makes sense.
The same person who made someone I know try and lower past a knot and other silliness.
> (In reply to jezb1) Yes, yes they are.
Ahhh makes sense.
The same person who made someone I know try and lower past a knot and other silliness.
In reply to Pete Pozman: Where are you seeing those exactly? I may be being totally internet illiterate and you might need to point me to it...!
In reply to Pete Pozman: Ah, not internet illiterate, just didn't associate it with the word "workshop". Found it now!
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Gear retrieval? Second? Isn't SPA basically top roping?
> don't be tempted to move your anchors for gear retrieval after the second has come up
Gear retrieval? Second? Isn't SPA basically top roping?
In reply to Ross B:
I am not sure why leaving your harness is easier or justifiable over escaping the system with an intact harness and belay plate...especially as 1) its your PPE 2) its your means of abseiling and prussiking should things really be that disastrous. It is marginally more complicated but probably quicker (depending on your wriggling and harness) and safer to escape the system with the mainline being taken back to the anchors and keeping your harness and plate.
I am not sure why leaving your harness is easier or justifiable over escaping the system with an intact harness and belay plate...especially as 1) its your PPE 2) its your means of abseiling and prussiking should things really be that disastrous. It is marginally more complicated but probably quicker (depending on your wriggling and harness) and safer to escape the system with the mainline being taken back to the anchors and keeping your harness and plate.
In reply to Jonny2vests:
Mostly, but as I'm sure you know leading is part of it.
> (In reply to highclimber)
> [...]
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> Gear retrieval? Second? Isn't SPA basically top roping?
> [...]
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> Gear retrieval? Second? Isn't SPA basically top roping?
Mostly, but as I'm sure you know leading is part of it.
In reply to simondgee: If you can do it great but there is no requirement to do more than the other poster describes (tying off the plate and getting out of the harness) at SPA.
As group work is often involved there is usually more kit around and if the situation has somehow managed to get really complicated this lets you go and get help.
As group work is often involved there is usually more kit around and if the situation has somehow managed to get really complicated this lets you go and get help.
In reply to Jonny2vests: Jezb1 is right. At SPA you are assessed on your personal climbing experience so if you are fortunate enough to be working with the right ratios and pupils at that level there is nothing wrong with leading them up a climb. Note you aren't assessed on your ability to teach lead belaying or teach the placement of gear so you are not teaching lead climbing but if you have an easy enough route you might choose to lead it to paint a good picture of 'real' climbing. This does mean that student/other less experience seconds you are climbing with might not be able to remove gear or may forget to unclip and try to climb past a runner so it is not uncommon to look at such issues at assessment.
In reply to AlH:
Ta...I was involved in the development of the SPSA syllabus years (and years) ago and this was a big topic ...I cannot see what is being assessed/ encouraged by being able to get out of a harness, if you are near an edge if you are belaying (almost certainly)then wriggling out out of harness is plain stupid...could be the quickest way to the bottom of the crag. ...escaping the system has always been for me about the ability to demonstrate understanding and flexibility ...escaping system real world near zero use.Tying off/isolating a main much more valuable.
Ta...I was involved in the development of the SPSA syllabus years (and years) ago and this was a big topic ...I cannot see what is being assessed/ encouraged by being able to get out of a harness, if you are near an edge if you are belaying (almost certainly)then wriggling out out of harness is plain stupid...could be the quickest way to the bottom of the crag. ...escaping the system has always been for me about the ability to demonstrate understanding and flexibility ...escaping system real world near zero use.Tying off/isolating a main much more valuable.
In reply to simondgee: I see it as like any other tool. Its just an option. In many situations with a top rope (as opposed to a bottom rope) the belayer wont have put themselves into the system at all and may use a direct belay like an Italian hitch whilst staying attached themselves independently (often with a cowstail, lanyard or similar). It doesn't have to be prescriptive and the tool chosen should be one that is safe, efficient and appropriate to the SPA's assessment of the situation. Beyond that a wide variety of techniques are acceptable.
In reply to jezb1 and AIH:
Yeah, I'd forgotten that actually. I don't think I was even assessed on that part, my logbook did the talking I'm still not sure why you'd 'be tempted to move an anchor' though. Whatever that even means.
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> Mostly, but as I'm sure you know leading is part of it.
> [...]
>
> Mostly, but as I'm sure you know leading is part of it.
Yeah, I'd forgotten that actually. I don't think I was even assessed on that part, my logbook did the talking I'm still not sure why you'd 'be tempted to move an anchor' though. Whatever that even means.
In reply to plummet:
Check, double check and triple check your anchors/screwgates.
Always protect yourself at the top of the crag.
For the hair stuck in the abseil device, before resorting to tieing off/releasing the ropes, get the 'client' to lean forward and take the slack on the safety rop. Gets the weight off the abseil rope without faffing.
Check, double check and triple check your anchors/screwgates.
Always protect yourself at the top of the crag.
For the hair stuck in the abseil device, before resorting to tieing off/releasing the ropes, get the 'client' to lean forward and take the slack on the safety rop. Gets the weight off the abseil rope without faffing.
In reply to Jonny2vests:
When your second comes up to tell you the've left a peice in for you to ab down and you look at your anchors and think, "actually I don't fancy abseiling on that, I'll just add another piece, or, readjust that one".
If the anchor is good enough for bringing up a second, it should be good enough for you to ab on, that's the point I was getting at.
As mentioned above, if the angle of the ab is wrong, you can justify moving them to suit.
> (In reply to jezb1 and AIH)
> [...]
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> I'm still not sure why you'd 'be tempted to move an anchor' though. Whatever that even means.
> [...]
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> I'm still not sure why you'd 'be tempted to move an anchor' though. Whatever that even means.
When your second comes up to tell you the've left a peice in for you to ab down and you look at your anchors and think, "actually I don't fancy abseiling on that, I'll just add another piece, or, readjust that one".
If the anchor is good enough for bringing up a second, it should be good enough for you to ab on, that's the point I was getting at.
As mentioned above, if the angle of the ab is wrong, you can justify moving them to suit.
In reply to plummet: One of the most important things to remember is to keep yourself protected at the top of the crag when setting up or just moving around close to the edge. French prussick and cowtails.
In reply to timjones:
The point is that if you leave something unattended for any length of time, someone might mess around with it and you need to re-check it hasn't been tampered with.
One thing I picked up from another course is to score your anchors 1-5, where 1 is marginal and 5 is bomber, and your aim is for a score of at least 11. That means you need at least 3, separate, placements (2 nuts close together in the same crack isn't really 2). Not appropriate in all situations, but a helpful mental check anyway.
> (In reply to gg4419)
>
> [...]
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> Arseholes that pull stunts like that shouldn't be allowed to assess IMO. Assessment should be about allowing people to demonstrate their competence in their own work rather than setting traps to catch them out!
>
> [...]
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> Arseholes that pull stunts like that shouldn't be allowed to assess IMO. Assessment should be about allowing people to demonstrate their competence in their own work rather than setting traps to catch them out!
The point is that if you leave something unattended for any length of time, someone might mess around with it and you need to re-check it hasn't been tampered with.
One thing I picked up from another course is to score your anchors 1-5, where 1 is marginal and 5 is bomber, and your aim is for a score of at least 11. That means you need at least 3, separate, placements (2 nuts close together in the same crack isn't really 2). Not appropriate in all situations, but a helpful mental check anyway.
In reply to grump gnome:
I've just started using cowstails at the top of the crag and won't ever look back! It makes everything so much easier and safer. They are also great when it comes to abseiling; I use one clipped to the anchor (remove before I finally set-off obviously!) and the other doubled over to extend my belay device.
> (In reply to plummet) One of the most important things to remember is to keep yourself protected at the top of the crag when setting up or just moving around close to the edge. French prussick and cowtails.
I've just started using cowstails at the top of the crag and won't ever look back! It makes everything so much easier and safer. They are also great when it comes to abseiling; I use one clipped to the anchor (remove before I finally set-off obviously!) and the other doubled over to extend my belay device.
In reply to Mike Conlon: A SPA assessment on a Multi-Pitch crag??
In reply to plummet:
Assess your assessor! sounds stupid, but myself and another assessee quickly found out that our assessor loved to talk, and the more we talked to him, the less he seemed to focus on us, and the more relaxed everyone was! Plus he gave us loads of extra great tips.
Good luck!
Assess your assessor! sounds stupid, but myself and another assessee quickly found out that our assessor loved to talk, and the more we talked to him, the less he seemed to focus on us, and the more relaxed everyone was! Plus he gave us loads of extra great tips.
Good luck!
In reply to Removed UserPete Cook:
Who was I to argue with Louise Thomas and Tim Neil !
> (In reply to Removed Usernocker) A SPA assessment on a Multi-Pitch crag??
Who was I to argue with Louise Thomas and Tim Neil !
In reply to Mike Conlon:
Have just checked Tryfan Fach on-line, fair comment about querying it as a single pitch venue, but that is where we went !
> (In reply to Pete Cook)
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> Who was I to argue with Louise Thomas and Tim Neil !
> [...]
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> Who was I to argue with Louise Thomas and Tim Neil !
Have just checked Tryfan Fach on-line, fair comment about querying it as a single pitch venue, but that is where we went !
In reply to Removed UserPete Cook:
Surely that depends how long your ropes are
> (In reply to Removed Usernocker) A SPA assessment on a Multi-Pitch crag??
Surely that depends how long your ropes are
In reply to LastBoyScout:
A good point if they have been left unattended but it hadn't been left and no-one should have to contend with assessors playing silly feckers!
> (In reply to timjones)
> [...]
>
> The point is that if you leave something unattended for any length of time, someone might mess around with it and you need to re-check it hasn't been tampered with
> [...]
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> The point is that if you leave something unattended for any length of time, someone might mess around with it and you need to re-check it hasn't been tampered with
A good point if they have been left unattended but it hadn't been left and no-one should have to contend with assessors playing silly feckers!
In reply to plummet:
Pretty much #1 is every SPA candidate has gone through the assessment - your fears are the same as everyone elses. On the day, you'll forget to do up a screwgate and your mind will say 'that's it you've failed, no point now' - it will over-exaggerate the little points, when the assessor is looking for the BIG points.
Oh and you will be expected to competently look after a second at a single pitch venue. That includes them climbing past gear without taking it out, and also teaching how to remove nuts/cams etc.
You'll do fine.
Pretty much #1 is every SPA candidate has gone through the assessment - your fears are the same as everyone elses. On the day, you'll forget to do up a screwgate and your mind will say 'that's it you've failed, no point now' - it will over-exaggerate the little points, when the assessor is looking for the BIG points.
Oh and you will be expected to competently look after a second at a single pitch venue. That includes them climbing past gear without taking it out, and also teaching how to remove nuts/cams etc.
You'll do fine.
In reply to paulpitcher:
Seen this mentioned a few times on this thread. I've never experienced this problem. Aside from telling someone beforehand not to climb past gear how would you sort out the problem?
> Oh and you will be expected to competently look after a second at a single pitch venue. That includes them climbing past gear without taking it out...
Seen this mentioned a few times on this thread. I've never experienced this problem. Aside from telling someone beforehand not to climb past gear how would you sort out the problem?
In reply to plummet: Hope that's useful.
In reply to plummet: Everyone seems to have focused on the technical climbing stuff but do make sure you really do the broader group management bit well too. This may depend on the age/experience of the group but it doesn't matter if crabs are done up correctly etc but two kids have wandered off. Having said that, it is usually easier to boss kids than adults who think they know best or can make their own judgements re safety. Therefore, set your parameters clearly.
In reply to Mike Conlon: Ah i have seen them run on tidal sea cliffs,remote moorland crags and such. Amazing what the syllabus states and then trainers & assessors then do. I wonder how these are recorded in the centre log?
In reply to plummet: You can just about get to the top of Tryfan Bach with a 60m rope ergo it is single pitch. You might not have any rope left for building a belay with but it was completed in a single pitch nonetheless.
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In reply to higherclimbingwales: as per the remit of the course a single pitch has to be also described in a guide book as such. Majority of routes on Tryfan bach are described as three.
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In reply to Lukem6:
The exclamation marks were implied...
> (In reply to highclimber) as per the remit of the course a single pitch has to be also described in a guide book as such. Majority of routes on Tryfan bach are described as three.
The exclamation marks were implied...
In reply to plummet:
My top tips (many of which have been covered): keep yourself safe at all times; check and double check all screwgates; anchors equally loaded, independent and angles 60 deg or less; keep solutions to scenarios simple; tell second/stude what you are doing; manage the group when not climbing; ensure rigging is slick; and, don't forget the basics when under the pressure of assessment (personal skills etc).
As an aside, several assessors have said to me that they have a 70%+ probability of predicting a result within say 2 minutes of getting out of the car/van, ie, before they have left the car park! I leave you to draw your own conclusions. (I passed by the way!)
Best of luck!
My top tips (many of which have been covered): keep yourself safe at all times; check and double check all screwgates; anchors equally loaded, independent and angles 60 deg or less; keep solutions to scenarios simple; tell second/stude what you are doing; manage the group when not climbing; ensure rigging is slick; and, don't forget the basics when under the pressure of assessment (personal skills etc).
As an aside, several assessors have said to me that they have a 70%+ probability of predicting a result within say 2 minutes of getting out of the car/van, ie, before they have left the car park! I leave you to draw your own conclusions. (I passed by the way!)
Best of luck!
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Not single pitch as far as SPA is concerned. I can't be bothered to look out the precise wording but something like 'not described in the guidebook as split pitches'. You get the idea I'm sure. Just 'cos you run a multi pitch in a oner does not make it a single pitch route.
> (In reply to plummet) You can just about get to the top of Tryfan Bach with a 60m rope ergo it is single pitch. You might not have any rope left for building a belay with but it was completed in a single pitch nonetheless.
Not single pitch as far as SPA is concerned. I can't be bothered to look out the precise wording but something like 'not described in the guidebook as split pitches'. You get the idea I'm sure. Just 'cos you run a multi pitch in a oner does not make it a single pitch route.
In reply to plummet: Was it a thumbs up or down?
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
I do recall on my first ever visit to 'Little Tryfan' as it was then known to us climbers running out of rope (150' rope) and inventing 'simul-climbing'.
So Cenotaph Corner is, by definition, within the scope of an SPA holder........
> (In reply to plummet) You can just about get to the top of Tryfan Bach with a 60m rope ergo it is single pitch. You might not have any rope left for building a belay with but it was completed in a single pitch nonetheless.
I do recall on my first ever visit to 'Little Tryfan' as it was then known to us climbers running out of rope (150' rope) and inventing 'simul-climbing'.
So Cenotaph Corner is, by definition, within the scope of an SPA holder........
In reply to jwa:
Exactly that happened to me on my MIA assessment at Cummingstone. Tied them off; put a knot and krab in a bight of spare rope and lowered that to them. Took them off the original rope and brought them up on the replacement rope.
Nearly killed the assessor as the enormous hex they had climbed past fell out......
> (In reply to paulpitcher)
> [...]
>
> Seen this mentioned a few times on this thread. I've never experienced this problem. Aside from telling someone beforehand not to climb past gear how would you sort out the problem?
> [...]
>
> Seen this mentioned a few times on this thread. I've never experienced this problem. Aside from telling someone beforehand not to climb past gear how would you sort out the problem?
Exactly that happened to me on my MIA assessment at Cummingstone. Tied them off; put a knot and krab in a bight of spare rope and lowered that to them. Took them off the original rope and brought them up on the replacement rope.
Nearly killed the assessor as the enormous hex they had climbed past fell out......
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