UKC

Two trad climbers from NW US planning road trip for next summer. Scotland, Wales, Lake District. Cullen Ridge, Glen Nevis, Snowdonia are on our list.  Would appreciate recommendations on other areas & classic climbs.  Also recommendations on guidebooks.

Thanks, IdahoBob 

How long will you be in the U.K for?

Pembrokeshire, Peak Gritstone, Slate.   

Gogarth (north wales can do as part of your snowdonia jaunt), Pembroke (in South Wales), Cornwall, Lundy.   These are all sea cliffs, the latter 2 further south

Peak district if you fancy some cragging it's densely organised around sheffield area,

re guidebooks, for a road trip selective guides are going to be the best, there is a lakes selective (wired) ,  at least 2 modern north wales selectives (roackfax, ground up) , at least 2 different scottish selective SMC , Garry Latter 

there is so much to go at depends on how long you are here for and how mobile and how much travelling you want to do and if your prefer  mountain (as it would appear) crags or roadside,

The best possible advice I can give you is to be flexible and go where the weather dictates.

Scotland probably has the most stunning mountains and crags, but the weather is frequently better elsewhere.

Wales is a popular base for many visiting climbers, particularly as the coastal venues can be climbable even when the mountains are wet.

A classic mistake is thinking that you can easily access Pembrokeshire from Snowdonia - you can't, it is a good five hour drive along (beautiful) country roads. From North Wales however it is very easy to reach the gritstone over in England due to good road links, you could even do a day trip.

The UK has an embarrassment of guidebooks to choose from. My suggestion would be not to buy anything in advance, and buy ones suggested in a local climbing shops in each area (not only are you supporting the local economy, but you won't waste your money buying a guide you won't use).

Enjoy!

When do you think the UK summer is?

In Scotland Summer is May, after then the clouds roll over, the midges come out and eat you alive and it starts raining again

I disagree.  Buy selective ones in advance to areas you might visit (select from N.Wales, Pembroke, Scotland, Lakes, South West, Peak) so that you can read up in advance to get a feel for things and get psyched, allowing you to make informed decisions according to the weather and saving the faff of buying them on arrival in an area. If you end up not using one or two, it's not a huge cost relative to the whole trip and you can always use them next time.

Not true this year - it was glorious well into July.  As Alun says above, a flexible itinerary is the key to making the most of our unpredictable weather.

As Lithos mentioned, sounds like you prefer mountain cragging. There is great stuff in the areas you have mentioned, but if you want a bit more of a unique experience, check out the sea cliffs. A guidebook that hasn't already been mentioned in this thread that covers a huge area of the country is the rockfax southwest select, good if you plan on getting down to Devon and Cornwall in particular.

There are some useful bits of advice (and some a little bit questionable) given in the following thread to some of your fellow countrymen. You will generally have a better time if you are handy at placing nuts, use half ropes, and use a static line to rap into sea cliffs though: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/us_climbers_using_single_rope_in...

The best advice is to mix what's undeniably classic with what's unavailable to you at home plus, as has already been said, be flexible and buy and use midge repellant if you're in Scotland in summer.

So in addition to the Cuillins and while you're more or less there anyway, I'd drive round to Torridon and bag Liathach, then take a day driving round the area north of Ullapool; primordial scenery where the old bare bones of the Earth lie exposed.

Rather than Glen Nevis, Ben Nevis.  In summer you should try Tower Ridge for an easier day on classic rock, or possibly Centurion for a harder classic line.  If the weather isn't co-operating, at least have a walk over Carn Mor Dearg and then to the top of the Ben and down.

The Lake District, love it though I do, suffers because it is, relatively, a pocket-sized area.  If the weather gods are kind, I'd suggest heading to Langdale and trying routes on Gimmer Crag; North-West Arete and F route, Kipling Groove, and many others are worth your attention.  Then I'd head over to Coniston and combine a walk up Coniston Old Man with a climb on Dow Crag; Eliminate A, perhaps.  The reason for these two areas in that order is not just to show off some nice climbing, but a bit of history too; back in the Neolithic, near Gimmer Crag, stones were - excavated seems the wrong word, but so does quarried - anyway, they were dug up to be made into stone axes which have been found all over the country.  In Coniston as you walk up Coniston Old Man you'll see evidence of more recent industry in the old copper mine workings.

One thing we have here which you don't have much of stateside is climbing on seacliffs.  Gogarth should definitely be on your list, as should the cliffs in Pembrokeshire; though the drive between the two is not as straightforward as you'd wish, happily Snowdonia gets in the way.  If you fancy a crag classic, Cenotaph Corner on Dinas Cromlech should be on your list; if you catch good weather, the Llanberis valley could occupy you for a while; the climbing in the slate quarries is singular.

And you should try gritstone; but with so much to try, I wouldn't get pre-occupied with it.  I'd aim to visit the Roaches and if you're feeling brave, try The Sloth.

There is much else, of course.  But that'll give you a sense of the where, the what and the singular nature of a good many of the UK's mountain, seacliff and crag climbing.

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy it!

T.

I would go with Lithos suggestion and definitely include some sea cliffs - they may be more different to what you are used to. Cornwall and Pembroke are both excellent, although a long way away (by UK standards) from your other destinations. 

If you're fortunate with the weather I'd aim to get to the mountain crags with the sea cliffs of Anglesey, Pembrokeshire and Cornwall as a fallback, and only as a last resort fall back even further on to outcrop gritstone or limestone, worse still slate!

In Scotland perhaps think, as well as Ben Nevis, the Cairngorms and the far north west - the Scottish select guide will point you at mouth watering possibilities.

In the Lakes Gimmer Crag and Dow Crag have already been mentioned and are the best bets for accessible clean rock with a mountain flavour but, again given luck with the weather the crags of Scafell, Great Gable and Pillar Rock give true Brit mountain experiences with a nod to history and tradition.

In Snowdonia this genre can perhaps best be sampled on"Cloggy", Lliwedd, Tryfan, The Glyders and The Carneddau. As has already been pointed out the beauty of Snowdonia as a base is the proximity of good lowland crags, in both mountain valleys and seacliffs, if the weather lets you down.

I'd echo others in suggesting sea cliffs as something I don't think you see much of in NW USA. here Anglesey (N Wales) is handy for Snowdonia but if you find yourselves with the time Pembroke and Cornwall offer different British ambiences. Bear in mind despite short approaches seacliffs can often yield less climbs per day as descents can often be time consuming.

As far as guidebooks are concerned I'd get the following selective guides to each area so you can savour the delights in store long before you make your trip:

Scotland: https://www.smc.org.uk/publications/climbing/scottish-rock-climbs

Lake District: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lake-District-Rock-Wired-Guides/dp/0850280575

Snowdonia: https://www.amazon.co.uk/North-Wales-Rock-Selected-Climbs/dp/0955441773

Pembroke sea cliffs: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pembroke-Rock-Wired-Guides-Selected/dp/0957281552/...

Cornwall and SW England: https://www.amazon.co.uk/South-West-Climbs-Cornwall-Granite/dp/0901601985/r...

After over 50 years walking and climbing these hills and crags I'd love to be you seeing it all for the first time. Good luck with the weather.

PS I've a pal with a cabin at City of Rocks who tells me the area's well worth a visit?

I'd say somewhere you definitely shouldn't miss is Pembroke.

It's incredibly accessible, with amazing crags 5 mins from the car. There are thousands of world class pitches in amazing settings - mostly single pitch, but don't be fooled. A big Pembroke pitch on a tidal crag can be a serious adventure! Dries quick, close amenities, it's just the perfect trad climbing location in many ways (although when not actually on the cliffs the scenery is not really...anything, and there's nowt else to do). Gets pretty good weather too, for the UK.

The Highlands and Islands of Scotland are scenically magical and offer incredible climbing on mountains, outcrops and sea cliffs. It would take a lifetime to explore. The weather is an issue - it's rare that the mountain crags are in condition.

Other areas like the Peak and Lakes are wonderful in their own ways, but I'm not sure I'd travel half way round the world to climb there. Certainly with the Lakes I would advise hooking up with local climbers (feel free to email me, I live in the Lakes) to show you the good stuff as it's easy to miss the point and go away wondering why people rave about these places. North Wales is a great place with lots of variety and lots of character, but a some of it is a bit odd (the slate quarries and Gogarth sea cliffs are peculiar, but there's more conventional roadside/mountain cragging).

You'll need to be flexible to make the best of the weather - if you do you'll have a great time.

If you’re interested in ancient history and want an easy day, Peel Crag in Northumberland tops out by the old coast to coast Roman Wall (Hadrian’s Wall).  It’s a great  location scenically as well as for a days cragging, and the museums at Housteads or Vindolanda forts are well worth a few hours.  You can read some roman post.

You could fit it in on your drive North into Scotland.  It’s an unusual kind of rock as well - igneous dolerite with a lot of horizontal and vertical cracking in to blocks.  Slippery when wet.  

The length and timing of your trip, and a rough idea of the grades you're looking to climb, would definitely help to tailor the recommendations.

But I will echo what others have said, that flexibility according to the weather is the key to a good trip in the UK.

If you get brilliant summer weather like we had in at least the first part of this season, look north. The climbing in the Highlands is arguably no better than the best of the rest of the country, but it's bigger and the scenery wins hands down. North Wales offers incredible variety within a much smaller radius of travel. The sea-cliffs of Pembroke, and Devon and Cornwall, should definitely be on the radar. Personally for a one-off visitor, I wouldn't extend my recommendations beyond that. Plenty of other good stuff around, but there's only so much you can do in a trip and it may as well be the best.

Then you end up with a bag full of heavy books that you may never use. Lugging climbing gear all the way over from the US is heavy enough work already!

I do know what you mean, modern UK guidebooks make excellent reading on the bog.  But you can do this very effectively online, these days; plus it's free and less wasteful.

Four or five guidebooks are not bulky and easily go in hand luggage on a flight where weight is not an issue (unlike rack, ropes etc. checked in luggage!).

I've lugged as many 8 guidebooks as a UK visitor to the US and have always used the excellent Mountain Project resources extensively as well .. (something that UKC logbooks could learn a lot  from).... piss poor preparation leads to missed opportunities and and all that. Its a lot easier for me as SW US weather is way more reliable... the UK is a nightmare.

Like many here I'd recommend UK seacliffs to a US climber as something very British, although I'd focus more on atmosphere than quality of moves so would put the bigger SW venues and Gogarth above Pembroke (which is brilliant but a long way from anywhere else). Snowdonia would be my No 1 venue: loads of variety and arguably the best wet weather options for the UK mountains. If the weather is great, head to Scotland and add some variety to those Scottish mountain routes, especially a bit of NW Mountain Sandstone. The Cuillin does have the best mountain rock in the UK in my view.

Someone suggested Tower Ridge.. the Ben has many brilliant climbing routes this is not one of them: its a 3rd class scramble with a few short 4th class to 5.1 sections. Great if you want that but Observatory Ridge is much better as an easier climb and I suspect they would want better still classic harder routes.

If I was recommending someone from the US to visit just one venue in the UK, it would be Pembroke. Arguably our only truly world class area (apart from the Barra Isles, but that would not make sense for a first visit). I suspect all our inland crags might be just slightly disappointing to a well travelled American.

Not sure about that - wasn't it Royal Robbins himself who described the climbs on them as "little inlaid jewels"?

I used to be able to quote from an article written by an American climber visiting Britain for the first time in the 80s, keen to see the famous gritstone, and on seeing Stanage for the first time mistook it for a beginners crag. As he kept walking trying to find the 'real' climbing, the realisation that the 'pebbles' he were looking at was the fabled gritstone. "Poor islanders..."

I wish I could remember the article and author. It was tongue-in-cheek funny and well-written.

Of course when you get climbing on the grit it dosen’t feel like that does it? Surely the ‘thing’ about gritstone climbing is how intense an experience it can feel despite it’s diminutive status. It’s different. To OP. The UK cannot compare with the US in terms of world class crags. What we specialise in however is variety. I cannot think of anywhere else that has so many different potential climbing experiences in a, relatively, small area. Try and sample all but almost certainly the weather will dictate the same as it does for us all year in year out . Have a great time.

Gritstone does offer world class bouldering and highballing. Length for length it has some of the best shorter routes I've climbed anywhere. It has fabulous rock quality with loads of trad variety across all grades  However,  if the OP wants mountain routes then only a few grit venues meet that and they are not UK musts.

A few?!

I wouldn't dispute this, but since Scotland has a relatively large mountain area, dry rock can often be found by going to an area away from the prevailing winds. Also, most mountain areas have nearby top notch outcrops which can act as a great back-up plan. Glen Nevis is near Glencoe/Ben Nevis, Diabaig (probably my personal favourite Scottish outcrop) is near Torridon, Creag Dubh (brown trousers likely!) is near the Northern Cairngorms and Earnsheugh is well worth a visit when the Eastern Cairngorms are clagged in.

Aye. Climbers, particularly south of the border, talk about 'Scotland' as though it's a single climbing area, like the Lake District or the Peak.

No one talks broad-brush about going climbing in 'England', as though there is no need to decide until you're in the car whether you're going to Northumberland or Cornwall. Though the travel time is a fair bit less than Arran to Orkney.

I've crossed the border without knowing at all where I was going before now. Only a weather check half way down the M6 resulted in a decision to keep going all the way to Cornwall via some god forsaken town in the Midlands to buy the guidebook. Northumberland is really the only area that requires ruling out north of the border. For those heading north over the border, almost nothing need be decided south of Stirling.

I think you rather missed my point.

I fail to see how I can have missed the point of your second paragraph, which is what I was contesting. I agree with your first paragraph.

You read the bit about getting in the car a bit literally. I only meant to illustrate the silliness of the disparity.

I think the article you mean is quoted at the beginning of this one; it was George Lowe:

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP08/editors-note-monsters

That's it! Thanks for finding it.

"Suddenly it dawned on me that these boulders were the fabled gritstone. Dear Lord, I thought, the poor island and its inhabitants."

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/destinations/fair_head_-_northern_irela...

If you get a chance to pop over I recommend Fairhead.

You're welcome, pure chance!